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The Final Sopranos - "Made in America" - 06/10/07 Part II (merged)

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The Final Sopranos - "Made in America" - 06/10/07 Part II (merged)

Old 06-13-07, 01:39 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by JaxComet
Nothing happened. They ate and went home.
That's right. They ate their Last Supper and went home to Heaven after Members Only Guy blew the place up with a bomb. Blackness represented the point of view of death.
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Old 06-13-07, 02:07 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by rennervision
There are editing techniques that work: A fade to black. A dissolve. A moment where the action freezes. Then there's the kind that don't: The new "WTF - who turned off the TV?!" technique.
"Cut-to-black" is not a new technique. Half of the horror films made over the last 20 years use a sudden cut-to-black at a time that is unexpected.

"cut to black" is just as effective technique as "fade to black". The whole purpose of fading to black is to not jolt the viewer. If the director's intention IS to jolt the viewer, "cut to black" works for that purpose, fading doesn't.

Again, people are dismissing the importance and significance of the cut. Chase is being accused of poor/sloppy editing or using gimmicks... but the reality is that the cut is a valid technique and conveys something that fading cannot.

And it wasn't simply cut-to-black and roll credits, but an extended time of black. Again that is significant, but lost on many viewers.

edit: and before anyone jumps on that as being "elitist", it is not that people are incapable or unable to get it... but that their preconceived ideas of how to end it are influencing their analysis of it.

Last edited by sracer; 06-13-07 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 06-13-07, 02:12 PM
  #103  
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That's why I'm not as bothered by the ending as others are. The artful execution of the final scenes. It wasn't sloppy or random. I'd rather have a ambiguous, yet thoughtful finale, rather than a simple period at the end of a very complex series.

At this point, and i've said this before...so much happened in these last episodes, and too much emphasis is being placed on what happened in that diner. That's not so say that it wasn't important, but every important character has had some major revelation or event that defines their future in these final episodes and we shouldn't ignore that.
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Old 06-13-07, 02:21 PM
  #104  
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After they took the holy communion with deep fried onion rings as wafers and Pepsi as sacrimental wine, Paul McCartney walked across the street with no shoes and there was a hanging munchkin in the kitchen and the spirit of a dead child behind Ted Danson and they played Dark Side of the Moon so it matched up perfectly.
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Old 06-13-07, 02:25 PM
  #105  
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Very cool article. http://www.observer.com/2007/tony-s-blackout?page=0%2C0
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Old 06-13-07, 02:43 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by sracer
"Cut-to-black" is not a new technique. Half of the horror films made over the last 20 years use a sudden cut-to-black at a time that is unexpected.
Agreed. But when done right you don't have threads exceeding 30 pages in length discussing what happened next. The moment when this story cut to black looks very awkward to me. However, I welcome any explanations as to why some feel that moment was completely natural.
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Old 06-13-07, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rennervision
That was something I would have expected if the end credits read "Edited by Andy Kaufman."
First thing that popped in my mind once the credits finally came up.
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Old 06-13-07, 03:19 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by sracer
Panning the camera away would be fine if it was supposed to be a "life goes on" ending. But that's not what happened. Watch that last scene again. Tony is NOT paranoid. Tony isn't fearful as each patron enters through the door. He waiting for his family to show up.

The people who were paranoid were the VIEWERS. Tony Soprano was not.
Exactly. The first time I watched the scene, my heart was beating like a jackhammer. Who was the squirrely guy sitting at the diner counter? Who was coming through the diner door? Who was in the car driving by Meadow as she crossed the street? Why is that guy walking toward Tony? Who will live and who will die?

Watching it a second time, knowing that nothing unusual happens, you realize that it's all in the viewer's head. Sometimes, a guy sitting at a diner counter is fidgety. Sometimes, people come into a diner. Sometimes, cars drive down the street. Sometimes, a restaurant customer needs to use the men's room. It's just another day at the diner -- nobody's life is changed any more than all of our lives change each and every day.
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Old 06-13-07, 03:25 PM
  #109  
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The guy at the counter was totally checking Carmella out.

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Old 06-13-07, 03:26 PM
  #110  
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anyone notice that tony did not look up when the black guys entered? they even cut to tony, and he didn't look up.. thought that was interesting..
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Old 06-13-07, 03:27 PM
  #111  
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I thought I'd post the lyrics, since Chase saw something here that he wanted to drive home, the line that got me after listening to the song a few times that did not catch me when i watched, was "Oh, the movie never ends, It goes on and on and on and on"
The ending has grown on me...

"Just a small town girl, livin in a lonely world
She took the midnight train goin anywhere
Just a city boy, born and raised in south detroit
He took the midnight train goin anywhere

A singer in a smokey room
A smell of wine and cheap perfume
For a smile they can share the night
It goes on and on and on and on

Strangers waiting, up and down the boulevard
Their shadows searching in the night
Streetlight people, living just to find emotion
Hiding, somewhere in the night

Working hard to get my fill,
Everybody wants a thrill
Payin anything to roll the dice,
Just one more time
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on

(chorus)

Dont stop believin
Hold on to the feelin
Streetlight people"
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Old 06-13-07, 03:29 PM
  #112  
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Folks,

Based on what I read on that NJ.com article, it appears that Chase did this for one reason: he could not figure out a "clean" way to end the series, and had to resort to this unusual ending. I still think it's a cop-out given how a number of other series pulled off masterful last episodes (who could forget the ending to The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Newhart, or the example of The Fugitive I mentioned earlier).

I'm in the camp that the "ending" gives an opening for Chase to do a theatrical movie if someone will wave enough "Benjamins" at him.
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Old 06-13-07, 03:59 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by cracksky
That's right. They ate their Last Supper and went home to Heaven after Members Only Guy blew the place up with a bomb. Blackness represented the point of view of death.
I might believe you if we had gone to WHITE instead of black. The only one who died in that scene was the home viewer. Tony and family are fine.

Don't believe me? Read this!

http://www.pugbus.net/artman/publish...sighting.shtml
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Old 06-13-07, 04:06 PM
  #114  
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"Zeus ex mackinaw"

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Old 06-13-07, 04:14 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by das Monkey
"Zeus ex mackinaw"

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If the only positive thing to come out of this finale is "Zeus ex mackinaw" it will have been worth the "stagmire" that ensued.

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Old 06-13-07, 06:45 PM
  #116  
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I watched the replay last night and noticed the CUT-TO-BLACK didn't last as long as it did on the original airing. The credits seemed to come up quicker on the replay. Anyone else notice this?
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Old 06-13-07, 07:20 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by sracer

The people who were paranoid were the VIEWERS. Tony Soprano was not.
Exactly. Tony WAS obviously paranoid a few other times within this episode (and throughout the series). He bahaved nothing like that at all in this scene. And the only reason the viewers were paranoid was because Chase told them to be with the subtleness of a fist in the face. And, as it turns out, it was for no reason whatsoever, and then we got a gimmicky cut to black. That is why I posted on the first thread that on second viewing of this it may as well have been Carmela picking up some dry cleaning. No impact whatsoever (unless you consider calling out "Shenanigans!" impact). Compare that to Paulie's final scene, which was fabulous. Instead after eight years we got "These onion rings sure are tasty!"[black]
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Old 06-13-07, 07:29 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by kajs
First thing that popped in my mind once the credits finally came up.
The final moment definitely was David Chase reading us "The Great Gatsby."
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Old 06-13-07, 08:44 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Elpresidentepez
I think we just got the new cliche in ending a sto
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Old 06-13-07, 09:21 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by mmconhea
It was a gimmick, plain and simple. Chase didn't want to end it. So he showed he could get the tension up and played a trick by cutting it off. Yeah he thinks he's a creative genious, but in actuallity people enjoy conclusions, not trickery. So no he will go down in history as an ass who fucked his fans.
It's like going to see a magic show and the Copperfield strings you along with a huge fancy, sparkling performance and a hot assistant. He lift up a curtain and the assistant disspears. Then the lights turn off on stage and the lights turn on in the stands, but nothing. Show's over! Everyone go home. But the crowd is still wondering: where's the assistant? Yeah you don't have to have her come back flying on a wire across the stands, but it sure does make the magic look real. Chase fucked that up with the finale.

And this shit with speculation. Everything was so vague you can't conclude shit. People justifying this ending with their own facts and interpretations are delusional. "We see it from Tony's perspective." Bullshit. When did the show ever show you anything from Tony's first-person perspective? never. Why now? because chase couldn't think of something better. I could in my sleep.
We've seen Tony's dreams during sleep and were shown what went on in his mind during a coma, I think that counts as his perspective.
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Old 06-13-07, 11:12 PM
  #121  
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I keep watching the repeats and firing up my dvr over and over waiting to see a different ending or see something that I missed before.
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Old 06-13-07, 11:47 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Elpresidentepez
"It was, so far, the best last episode in TV history—better than The Mary Tyler Moore Show..."

That ridiculous hyperbole put the entire article in the dustbin for me...not that it wasn't heading that way anyway.
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Old 06-14-07, 12:44 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Bill Needle
"It was, so far, the best last episode in TV history—better than The Mary Tyler Moore Show..."

That ridiculous hyperbole put the entire article in the dustbin for me...not that it wasn't heading that way anyway.
Yeah, SFU had the best series finale ever. That is the new standard.
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Old 06-14-07, 12:44 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by joefrog91
I watched the replay last night and noticed the CUT-TO-BLACK didn't last as long as it did on the original airing. The credits seemed to come up quicker on the replay. Anyone else notice this?
It was "just your 'magination, runnin' way with you"

Nope. It's always been about 10 seconds. These people that think it was 30 seconds are the idiots that ran all over their houses checking all their other tv sets. Mass hysteria.
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Old 06-14-07, 12:34 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by joefrog91
I watched the replay last night and noticed the CUT-TO-BLACK didn't last as long as it did on the original airing. The credits seemed to come up quicker on the replay. Anyone else notice this?
Yep, HBO has shortened the black space between Tony's final shot and the end credits considerably...it only lasts about three or four seconds now. Most likely due to running time, since the repeats are now within 1 hr. Hopefully they won't screw up and put this edited version on the DVD release.
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