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The Final Sopranos - "Made in America" - 06/10/07 Part II (merged)

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The Final Sopranos - "Made in America" - 06/10/07 Part II (merged)

Old 06-14-07, 11:38 AM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Michael Ballack
I keep watching the repeats and firing up my dvr over and over waiting to see a different ending or see something that I missed before.
I noticed that the OPENING shot of Tony makes it look like he's lying in a casket, and even the music on the radio (at first) sounds like "funeral parlor music". Not sure if that's been mentioned or not, but thought I would throw it out there...
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Old 06-14-07, 02:47 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
Did his hand go "back, and to the left"?
Well in Sil's hospital room, a commercial for the Magic Bullet played in the background.
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Old 06-14-07, 02:56 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
I noticed that the OPENING shot of Tony makes it look like he's lying in a casket, and even the music on the radio (at first) sounds like "funeral parlor music". Not sure if that's been mentioned or not, but thought I would throw it out there...
To be fair, it isn't the first shot like that we've seen. It was meant to show Tony is depressed and stressed out.

I've also been listening to "Don't stop believin' ". I even stop it at the point in the song that Chase ended the finale in. I'm obsessed. At least I'm no longer thinking about the season finale of Lost anymore.
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Old 06-15-07, 01:24 AM
  #129  
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I'm a couple of seasons behind, I watch it when it comes to disc...so I didn't watch the finale obviously. Found this story and I'm posting it, sorry if it's a repost, but I'm not goin through this thread for fear of spoilers...

"Sopranos" rub-out theory gains credence

By Steve GormanThu Jun 14, 9:40 PM ET

Fans of "The Sopranos" are seizing on clues suggesting the controversial blackout which abruptly ended the TV mob drama meant that Tony Soprano was rubbed out, and HBO said on Thursday they may be on to something.

One clue in particular, a flashback in the penultimate episode to a conversation between Tony and his brother-in-law about death, gained credence as an HBO spokesman called it a "legitimate" hint and confirmed that series creator David Chase had a definite ending in mind.

"While he won't say to me 100 percent what it all means, he says some people who've guessed have come closer than others," HBO spokesman Quentin Schaffer told Reuters after speaking to Chase.

"There are definitely things there that he intended for people to pick up on," Schaffer said.

Chase himself suggested as much in an interview on Tuesday with The Star-Ledger newspaper of New Jersey when he said of his end to the HBO series, "Anyone who wants to watch it, it's all there."

In the final moments of Sunday's concluding episode, Tony, the conflicted mob boss who has just survived a round of gangland warfare, sits in a diner with his family munching on onion rings as the 1980s song by rock band Journey, "Don't Stop Believing," blares from a juke box.

Tension builds as a suspicious man wearing a "Members Only" jacket eyes Tony from a nearby counter before slipping into a restroom. Then, as Tony looks toward the restaurant's entrance, the screen abruptly goes blank in mid-scene -- with no picture or sound for 10 seconds -- until the credits roll silently.

Stunned viewers, many initially believing something had gone wrong with their cable TV reception, were left wondering whether Tony ended up "whacked" or whether his sordid life went on as usual.

The jarring, fill-in-the-blank finale, concluding a show widely hailed as America's greatest television drama, sparked a furious debate about whether Chase had conceived of an actual ending and whether he left the audience any clues.

The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the Web, is a scene from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby Bacala, muse about what it feels like to die.

"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black," Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.

That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the penultimate "Sopranos" episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened room of a safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a mob war.

"I think that is one of the most legitimate things to look at," Schaffer said when asked about theories that the Bobby Bacala flashback was meant to foreshadow Tony's death.

Moreover, he said the man in the "Members Only" jacket could be interpreted as a symbolic reference to membership in the mob. "Members Only" also was the title of the episode in which Tony's demented Uncle Junior shoots him in the gut.

The "Members Only" guy was played by the owner of a real-life pizza parlor, Paolo Colandrea. Schaffer denied reports that Colandrea had appeared earlier in the series as the nephew of Tony's New York gang rival, or that there ever was such a character. He also dismissed reports that Chase had filmed more than one ending to the finale.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070615/tv_nm/sopranos_dc
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Old 06-15-07, 08:35 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by MartinBlank
"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black," Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
As said many times before, this line, is misqouted. He does not say the "goes to black" part.
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Old 06-15-07, 09:32 AM
  #131  
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Yeah, he says you don't hear it coming.
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Old 06-15-07, 09:45 AM
  #132  
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There's no doubt there is significance in the extended period of black and the abrupt ending. However, we'll argue to Kingdom come as to what that significance is.
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Old 06-15-07, 10:07 AM
  #133  
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Of course Chase could just speak to it. If it was supposed to be left to the viewer's own interpretation, he can simply say so. If he had something definite in mind, he can simply say so. The only reason he could not simply say so, is if he had no ending, or he is a complete ass. "The Great Sopranos Secret Finale Swindle"
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Old 06-15-07, 10:57 AM
  #134  
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I haven't really mentioned this because I think it will only make the people who hate the episode hate it even more, but ...

I'm pretty sure that Chase ended the episode the way he did because it was the most artificial way to end a TV show, which means it was the best way to remind the viewer "Hey, this isn't real life. It's just a TV show. Now you're not watching it any more."

Earlier in the episode, while everyone is in the safe house, they are watching an episode of the Twilight Zone. It's an episode about a TV writer. Specifically, it's about William Shakespeare being brought to the 20th century to write a TV script. His script is then hacked up by the network, which does not want to offend the sponsors.

Now, the choice of this Twilight Zone episode and the ending could be Chase's way of saying "Fuck you guys. I wanted to end this thing 3 seasons ago. You asked for this shit. Don't complain about what you got." I'm not sure. You could certainly interpret it that way. I prefer not to, since I've enjoyed the whole series, including the final few seasons and including the finale.

But it seems pretty clear to me that one thing Chase was doing was to move the focus onto the medium and away from the message. To remind the viewers that there's no such person as Tony Soprano -- he's a figment of Chase's imagination. And that the story stopped with Meadow coming into the diner because that's where the script stopped and that's where the director yelled "cut" and that's where they stopped filming and that's where the broadcast ended.
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Old 06-15-07, 11:08 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by JasonF
Now, the choice of this Twilight Zone episode and the ending could be Chase's way of saying "Fuck you guys. I wanted to end this thing 3 seasons ago. You asked for this shit. Don't complain about what you got." I'm not sure. You could certainly interpret it that way. I prefer not to, since I've enjoyed the whole series, including the final few seasons and including the finale.

But it seems pretty clear to me that one thing Chase was doing was to move the focus onto the medium and away from the message. To remind the viewers that there's no such person as Tony Soprano -- he's a figment of Chase's imagination. And that the story stopped with Meadow coming into the diner because that's where the script stopped and that's where the director yelled "cut" and that's where they stopped filming and that's where the broadcast ended.
I'm sure there's at least SOME truth to that, JasonF...it's no secret that Chase was miffed (or is that "miffled" ) both about dragging the series on and about the fans who demanded "more whackings!"
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Old 06-15-07, 11:13 AM
  #136  
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David Chase has already stated that the ending was definitive. He says it's all there for you. The clues are all over the place. I've figured it out. If you wanna know, it'll cost ya $13.99
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Old 06-15-07, 11:27 AM
  #137  
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That's bullshit, Chase is as much of a sellout as the next person. I'd really respect him if he refused to return, but just like AJ, he sold out for the dough.

You just reminded me why part of me is glad this whole thing is over. I'm sick of waiting 2 years for a new season while Chase whines about having to come up with a story while making millions of dollars. Usually, I'm on the artist or director's side, but Chase reminds me of why you need the suits at the studios sometimes.

Last edited by Michael Ballack; 06-15-07 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 06-15-07, 11:30 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by JasonF
I haven't really mentioned this because I think it will only make the people who hate the episode hate it even more, but ...

I'm pretty sure that Chase ended the episode the way he did because it was the most artificial way to end a TV show, which means it was the best way to remind the viewer "Hey, this isn't real life. It's just a TV show. Now you're not watching it any more."

Earlier in the episode, while everyone is in the safe house, they are watching an episode of the Twilight Zone. It's an episode about a TV writer. Specifically, it's about William Shakespeare being brought to the 20th century to write a TV script. His script is then hacked up by the network, which does not want to offend the sponsors.

Now, the choice of this Twilight Zone episode and the ending could be Chase's way of saying "Fuck you guys. I wanted to end this thing 3 seasons ago. You asked for this shit. Don't complain about what you got." I'm not sure. You could certainly interpret it that way. I prefer not to, since I've enjoyed the whole series, including the final few seasons and including the finale.

But it seems pretty clear to me that one thing Chase was doing was to move the focus onto the medium and away from the message. To remind the viewers that there's no such person as Tony Soprano -- he's a figment of Chase's imagination. And that the story stopped with Meadow coming into the diner because that's where the script stopped and that's where the director yelled "cut" and that's where they stopped filming and that's where the broadcast ended.

I like this and it's the only thing that makes sense. Bravo.
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Old 06-15-07, 11:39 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
I noticed that the OPENING shot of Tony makes it look like he's lying in a casket, and even the music on the radio (at first) sounds like "funeral parlor music". Not sure if that's been mentioned or not, but thought I would throw it out there...
i thought this as well. my first inclination was to think they were going to start the episode with a dream.
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Old 06-15-07, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonF
Now, the choice of this Twilight Zone episode and the ending could be Chase's way of saying "Fuck you guys. I wanted to end this thing 3 seasons ago. You asked for this shit. Don't complain about what you got." I'm not sure. You could certainly interpret it that way. I prefer not to, since I've enjoyed the whole series, including the final few seasons and including the finale.

But it seems pretty clear to me that one thing Chase was doing was to move the focus onto the medium and away from the message. To remind the viewers that there's no such person as Tony Soprano -- he's a figment of Chase's imagination. And that the story stopped with Meadow coming into the diner because that's where the script stopped and that's where the director yelled "cut" and that's where they stopped filming and that's where the broadcast ended.
This is a very good detail you bring up. I think media representation has been pretty important this season. Maybe for the whole series. But this season in particular; from a mob boss portrayal in Cleaver, to Tony watching Born Yesterday. There's the creeping insinuation that Tony is really just a TV portrait of a mob boss intruding into the reality of the show.
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Old 06-15-07, 12:29 PM
  #141  
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I don't buy that the "Member's Only" guy killed Tony. First off Tony was going to that restaurant to meet his family, which no one would have known about. If anything Tony might have been tailed to the place and, if so, it's highly unlikely someone could have stashed a gun before he arrived. If that guy was there to kill Tony he would have just come right in and capped him, then taken off to avoid witnesses. Chase knew the audience would build the scene up for themselves, so people are assuming the guy went into the restroom (a la The Godfather) to retrieve a handgun. The gun couldn't have been there and no hitman would take that long to carry out a job, especially since his target could notice him. You don't think Tony would pick up on a shady-looking Italian eyeballing him in that place?
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Old 06-15-07, 12:44 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Michael Ballack
That's bullshit, Chase is as much of a sellout as the next person. I'd really respect him if he refused to return, but just like AJ, he sold out for the dough.
Not to mention that in the only interview I've seen since the finale he has already stated that he is not against another Sopranos project if the "conditions" are right -- or more accurately -- the millions and millions of conditions are right. When Chase talked about basing much of The Sopranos on his childhood, who knew he meant AJ?
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Old 06-15-07, 01:28 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by KillerCannabis
I don't buy that the "Member's Only" guy killed Tony. First off Tony was going to that restaurant to meet his family, which no one would have known about. If anything Tony might have been tailed to the place and, if so, it's highly unlikely someone could have stashed a gun before he arrived. If that guy was there to kill Tony he would have just come right in and capped him, then taken off to avoid witnesses. Chase knew the audience would build the scene up for themselves, so people are assuming the guy went into the restroom (a la The Godfather) to retrieve a handgun. The gun couldn't have been there and no hitman would take that long to carry out a job, especially since his target could notice him. You don't think Tony would pick up on a shady-looking Italian eyeballing him in that place?

I rationalize it as that he had the gun on him, but wanted to come at Tony from the back where he wouldn't see him coming.
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Old 06-15-07, 02:17 PM
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Bah, Chase as well as HBO is doing a magnificent job with the media coverage of this. Continually leading viewers and POTENTIAL viewers on about the ending with more and more speculation is just beautiful. What sells more than than controversy? Not much to be sure.

How many people that didn't watch the show or subscribe to HBO will watch with this ending versus a clean ending? I would guess many, many more.

As for Chase saying "it's all there" about the ending, of course it is. Everything a person needs to draw their own conclusions is present and entirely up to that individual.

They are milking this thing dry.
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Old 06-15-07, 02:21 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by KillerCannabis
I don't buy that the "Member's Only" guy killed Tony. First off Tony was going to that restaurant to meet his family, which no one would have known about. If anything Tony might have been tailed to the place and, if so, it's highly unlikely someone could have stashed a gun before he arrived. If that guy was there to kill Tony he would have just come right in and capped him, then taken off to avoid witnesses. Chase knew the audience would build the scene up for themselves, so people are assuming the guy went into the restroom (a la The Godfather) to retrieve a handgun. The gun couldn't have been there and no hitman would take that long to carry out a job, especially since his target could notice him. You don't think Tony would pick up on a shady-looking Italian eyeballing him in that place?
And don't forget the scene with Paulie outside Satriale's when Paulie said he saw the Virgin Mary and Tony told him "sometimes there are NO hidden meanings". Chase telling us that we should take the final scene at face value and not try to come up with all these wild theories?
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Old 06-15-07, 02:22 PM
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My head just exploded.
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Old 06-15-07, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rennervision
My head just exploded.
Which head?
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Old 06-15-07, 02:51 PM
  #148  
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The one above my neck trying to process all of this.
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Old 06-15-07, 02:57 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by RayChuang
Folks,

Based on what I read on that NJ.com article, it appears that Chase did this for one reason: he could not figure out a "clean" way to end the series, and had to resort to this unusual ending. I still think it's a cop-out given how a number of other series pulled off masterful last episodes (who could forget the ending to The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Newhart, or the example of The Fugitive I mentioned earlier).

I'm in the camp that the "ending" gives an opening for Chase to do a theatrical movie if someone will wave enough "Benjamins" at him.
Didn't Newhart end with him waking up from a dream with his "wife" from a previous sitcom? How is that clean and masterful? THats a total copout. Funny, but a copout.
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Old 06-15-07, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
I'm sure there's at least SOME truth to that, JasonF...it's no secret that Chase was miffed (or is that "miffled" ) both about dragging the series on and about the fans who demanded "more whackings!"
Please. He could have easily said "no."
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