The Babylon 5 Season FOUR Discussion Thread
#152
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Legend
Today's Episode: "Racing Mars"
Franklin and Marcus arrive on Mars to begin their undercover mission. Sheridan confronts Garibaldi about his behavior.
The head of the group that recruited Garibaldi may have betrayed his true intentions with a slip of the tongue. When he first spoke to Garibaldi, he said Sheridan's actions weren't good for Earth, weren't good for business, and weren't good for the President -- not something likely to come from the mouth of someone opposed to Clark.
Since Garibaldi knows the group is planning to move against Sheridan at some point (they told him as much,) perhaps his acceptance of their offer is, instead of a rejection of Sheridan, actually part of a plan to root out possible threats to Babylon 5's security. If so, a natural question is, does Sheridan know about that plan, or is it Garibaldi's doing? Was the confrontation between Sheridan and Garibaldi just a premeditated ploy to help Garibaldi gain the trust of the new group? Sheridan's conversation with Delenn after the first confrontation argues against that idea, but it's still plausible.
When Marcus discovered Jack aboard the transport ship, he had his arm around Jack's neck. Why didn't he feel the Keeper? Does it have some way of hiding itself, or was it simply that Jack was wearing heavy clothing to cover his lower neck, and Marcus couldn't feel anything through the fabric?
Since Garibaldi knows the group is planning to move against Sheridan at some point (they told him as much,) perhaps his acceptance of their offer is, instead of a rejection of Sheridan, actually part of a plan to root out possible threats to Babylon 5's security. If so, a natural question is, does Sheridan know about that plan, or is it Garibaldi's doing? Was the confrontation between Sheridan and Garibaldi just a premeditated ploy to help Garibaldi gain the trust of the new group? Sheridan's conversation with Delenn after the first confrontation argues against that idea, but it's still plausible.
When Marcus discovered Jack aboard the transport ship, he had his arm around Jack's neck. Why didn't he feel the Keeper? Does it have some way of hiding itself, or was it simply that Jack was wearing heavy clothing to cover his lower neck, and Marcus couldn't feel anything through the fabric?
#154
Enormous Genitals
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Okay, I finished "In The Beginning" and then, for the hell of it, I flipped the disc over and started watching "The Gathering" again. It's amazing how this show comes full circle. I could just keep going and never stop.
#157
Banned
If you watched the last episode of Season 4 you know there are significant things that happen.
Whether or not it's as significant as S3 & S4, that's up to you to decide. Most people don't think so, I do.
It's still B5, which means it's better than most other SF, so I buy it anyways.
Whether or not it's as significant as S3 & S4, that's up to you to decide. Most people don't think so, I do.
It's still B5, which means it's better than most other SF, so I buy it anyways.
#158
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by BandoButters
Okay, B5 afficionados - does season 5 add anything significant to what has gone before? It can't be as good a seasons 3 and 4.
Okay, B5 afficionados - does season 5 add anything significant to what has gone before? It can't be as good a seasons 3 and 4.
Expect two outstanding standalone eps, the Neil Gaiman-penned "Day of the Dead" and the finale "Sleeping in Light."
The fourth season was ended at a point where all of the "major" plot points could be tied up in case the series ended with the demise of PTEN, but room was left for a fifth season.
What you can expect from the fifth season's arc would be for Sheridan and Delenn's New Alliance to firm up its power base and face its first real tests, and the road is paved for the future Sheridan saw in "War Without End." Not wanting to give away too much here.
And also, in the penultimate two episodes of the fifth season, you will understand why Jerry Doyle's attempts to resurrect "Babylon 5" is such a bad idea. In "Objects in Motion" and "Objects at Rest," you will finally understand what the series was really about, and why you can't go home again. (Not that there isn't room for another spin-off, but "Babylon 5" ended right there. There are always other stories to tell.)
And when I say "what the series was really about" doesn't mean some kind of a big plot twist or anything. It's really a rather quiet moment, but it will put everything in perspective.
#159
DVD Talk Legend
Bando - seen in the beginning yet?
the GOOD news is that Season 5 isn't AS good as season 4, but still well worth watching, so lower your expectations a little.
the GOOD news is that Season 5 isn't AS good as season 4, but still well worth watching, so lower your expectations a little.
#160
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by BandoButters
Whoa!
Whoa!
Spoiler:
#161
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Legend
Today's Episode: "Lines of Communication"
Franklin and Marcus try to convince the leaders of the resistance to go along with Sheridan's plan to unseat Clark. Delenn investigates a series of attacks on Minbari allies. Minbar begins to slide toward civil war.
Why does Sheridan think he has the power to promise Mars independence after Clark is out of office? Does Sheridan plan to assume the presidency himself? Or was that simply more improvisation on Franklin's part? Presumably not; it's unlikely Sheridan gave him the authority to make that kind of promise without consultation.
The Drakh aren't the only race who worked for the Shadows, though of course they might have been the only ones to escape with technology from Z'ha'dum. Neither the surgeons and pilot in "Ship of Tears" nor the creature in "The Long Dark" were Drakh in appearance, though the latter arguably bore a resemblance when it was shown briefly reflected in Mariah's tube.
It's also possible the Drakh weren't allies of the Shadows at all; the Vorlons may have similarly had minor races acting as aides, and those aides would likely be just as upset as the Shadows' about Sheridan and Delenn driving their masters away. Of course, the statement that the Drakh had just lost their home would seem to indicate that Delenn's supposition about their association with the Shadows was correct; the Vorlon homeworld is probably still intact.
The Drakh aren't the only race who worked for the Shadows, though of course they might have been the only ones to escape with technology from Z'ha'dum. Neither the surgeons and pilot in "Ship of Tears" nor the creature in "The Long Dark" were Drakh in appearance, though the latter arguably bore a resemblance when it was shown briefly reflected in Mariah's tube.
It's also possible the Drakh weren't allies of the Shadows at all; the Vorlons may have similarly had minor races acting as aides, and those aides would likely be just as upset as the Shadows' about Sheridan and Delenn driving their masters away. Of course, the statement that the Drakh had just lost their home would seem to indicate that Delenn's supposition about their association with the Shadows was correct; the Vorlon homeworld is probably still intact.
#162
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Legend
Today's Episode: "Conflicts of Interest"
Garibaldi takes on a new job. The resistance's counter-propaganda broadcasts begin. Sheridan proposes a plan to protect the Non-Aligned Worlds from raiders.
If Garibaldi takes the job, will he be working close to William Edgars? That would imply he'll also have frequent contact with Lise, which likely wouldn't be easy for either of them.
His consideration of the job offer is at odds with the glimpse of his programming, if that's what it was, in "The Illusion of Truth." In that flashback, Garibaldi recalled being drilled over and over with the idea that he worked for nobody but his captors. Of course, if Edgars is involved with his captors, that might not be inconsistent.
It's also possible his captors want to get him close to Edgars, and that by taking the job he'd in fact be following their implanted orders.
If the researchers are correct and the human telepathy genes can indeed mutate into a lethal virus, what are the parameters? Likely it's something that's telepathically transmitted. For example, it might cause a telepath to broadcast noise on whatever medium telepaths use to read thoughts. Telepathic interference can cause physical effects (Ben Zayn doubling over in "Eyes," or Lyta's bloodied eyes in "Walkabout") so it's not inconceivable that telepathic broadcasts of the right type could kill someone attuned to them.
His consideration of the job offer is at odds with the glimpse of his programming, if that's what it was, in "The Illusion of Truth." In that flashback, Garibaldi recalled being drilled over and over with the idea that he worked for nobody but his captors. Of course, if Edgars is involved with his captors, that might not be inconsistent.
It's also possible his captors want to get him close to Edgars, and that by taking the job he'd in fact be following their implanted orders.
If the researchers are correct and the human telepathy genes can indeed mutate into a lethal virus, what are the parameters? Likely it's something that's telepathically transmitted. For example, it might cause a telepath to broadcast noise on whatever medium telepaths use to read thoughts. Telepathic interference can cause physical effects (Ben Zayn doubling over in "Eyes," or Lyta's bloodied eyes in "Walkabout") so it's not inconceivable that telepathic broadcasts of the right type could kill someone attuned to them.
#165
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Sorry, I've been busy with the campaign.
I saw a bunch of episodes in short order, so the point where one ep ends and another begins is sort of a blur right now. I'm going back to the beginning of the series and starting over, now that many of the plotlines are resolved.
I'm continually amazed how many major plotlines have been kept going over such a long span of time. (Garibaldi has had a lot of stuff hapen to him. I hope he finds happiness in the end.)
I saw a bunch of episodes in short order, so the point where one ep ends and another begins is sort of a blur right now. I'm going back to the beginning of the series and starting over, now that many of the plotlines are resolved.
I'm continually amazed how many major plotlines have been kept going over such a long span of time. (Garibaldi has had a lot of stuff hapen to him. I hope he finds happiness in the end.)
Spoiler:
#166
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Calm down, we're all still here. Actually I was waiting for this episode because I have a question:
When Garibaldi is hopping around in the vent system with Lise and Wade (I think that's his name) why didn't Garibaldi shoot the attacker when he popped his head into the shaft or vice versa?
Warning, spoiler for end of S4
Just something that's been bugging me.
When Garibaldi is hopping around in the vent system with Lise and Wade (I think that's his name) why didn't Garibaldi shoot the attacker when he popped his head into the shaft or vice versa?
Warning, spoiler for end of S4
Spoiler:
Just something that's been bugging me.
#167
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Legend
Today's Episode: "Rumors, Bargains and Lies"
Sheridan tricks the League of Non-Aligned Worlds into accepting his proposed defense pact. Delenn tries to work with an old rival to defuse a brewing Minbari civil war.
Will the Non-Aligned Worlds' pledge to help Sheridan with any larger missions extend to his conflict with President Clark? Even in its diminished state, the combined forces of the Non-Aligned Worlds' navies would likely be a great asset if the conflict came down to a direct, prolonged series of battles. On the other hand, intervening in internal Earth matters isn't what the ambassadors had in mind; they might balk at sending their ships to die for the cause of overthrowing Earth's government.
By allowing the White Star fleet to patrol Centauri space in search of the Drakh (among others,) Londo has given Sheridan direct influence over the ability of the Shadows' allies to exact their revenge on Centauri Prime. Perhaps that's the source of Londo's comment in "War Without End" about Sheridan allowing the Shadows' dark servants to slip through to Centauri Prime; if Sheridan uses the White Star fleet for some larger mission as he hints he might, it'll presumably be at the cost of Centauri Prime's defense against the Drakh.
The religious caste has been the butt of jokes about surrendering "ever since the war," according to the same religious caste member. Clearly that can't be referring to the Shadow War, since they didn't surrender. Does the comment indicate that most Minbari still consider the Earth-Minbari War to be the major war of recent memory? Since the warrior caste is the group making the jokes, the implication is that they didn't particularly participate in the Shadow War
By allowing the White Star fleet to patrol Centauri space in search of the Drakh (among others,) Londo has given Sheridan direct influence over the ability of the Shadows' allies to exact their revenge on Centauri Prime. Perhaps that's the source of Londo's comment in "War Without End" about Sheridan allowing the Shadows' dark servants to slip through to Centauri Prime; if Sheridan uses the White Star fleet for some larger mission as he hints he might, it'll presumably be at the cost of Centauri Prime's defense against the Drakh.
The religious caste has been the butt of jokes about surrendering "ever since the war," according to the same religious caste member. Clearly that can't be referring to the Shadow War, since they didn't surrender. Does the comment indicate that most Minbari still consider the Earth-Minbari War to be the major war of recent memory? Since the warrior caste is the group making the jokes, the implication is that they didn't particularly participate in the Shadow War
#169
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Legend
Today's Episode: "Moments of Transition"
The warrior caste demands Delenn's surrender. Bester makes an offer to an increasingly desperate Lyta. Sheridan is compelled to act after receiving horrible news from Ivanova.
Despite Delenn's denial, the religious caste members on her ship in "Rumors, Bargains and Lies" were at least partially right: her plan did involve surrendering to the warrior caste, if only temporarily. If Lennier's reaction was at all typical, that must have come as a horrible blow to her caste when they heard about it.
Neroon's loyalties at the beginning of the episode were unclear. Shakiri's contempt for life clearly convinced Neroon that Delenn's plan was the right way to go. But would he have carried out her plan if Shakiri hadn't been so fanatical and had been able to provide some valid justification for the war?
Lyta is slowly lifting the veil of secrecy she's maintained about the Vorlons and their changes to her. In "Epiphanies," she was only willing to obliquely acknowledge the possibility that something might have happened. Here, she tacitly admitted it to Bester, and told Garibaldi in no uncertain terms that she wasn't a mere P5 any more.
Zack no longer calls Garibaldi "chief." Likely he's given up hope of Garibaldi's return. Any respect Zack had for Garibaldi was probably destroyed by Garibaldi's use of a duplicate identicard to get past customs ("Conflicts of Interest.")
Neroon's loyalties at the beginning of the episode were unclear. Shakiri's contempt for life clearly convinced Neroon that Delenn's plan was the right way to go. But would he have carried out her plan if Shakiri hadn't been so fanatical and had been able to provide some valid justification for the war?
Lyta is slowly lifting the veil of secrecy she's maintained about the Vorlons and their changes to her. In "Epiphanies," she was only willing to obliquely acknowledge the possibility that something might have happened. Here, she tacitly admitted it to Bester, and told Garibaldi in no uncertain terms that she wasn't a mere P5 any more.
Zack no longer calls Garibaldi "chief." Likely he's given up hope of Garibaldi's return. Any respect Zack had for Garibaldi was probably destroyed by Garibaldi's use of a duplicate identicard to get past customs ("Conflicts of Interest.")
#170
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From: Plantation, FL.
At the end of this episode, after Bester tries to scan Garibaldi, Zack and Bester exchange what appears to be a knowing look. Unless there's a hole in my mind
, this was never addressed. Was I just reading something into it that wasn't there?
Also (slight spoilers if you haven't finished Season 4)
, this was never addressed. Was I just reading something into it that wasn't there? Also (slight spoilers if you haven't finished Season 4)
Spoiler:
#172
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From: a small cottage on a cul de sac in the lower pits of hell.
Originally posted by Wizdar
It’s interesting how we go from Minbari don’t kill Minbari to wanting to wage war so easily.
It’s interesting how we go from Minbari don’t kill Minbari to wanting to wage war so easily.
#173
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by Chew
Where did everybody go?
Where did everybody go?
#175
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Legend
Today's Episode: "No Surrender, No Retreat"
Sheridan's forces attempt to liberate Proxima 3. Londo tries to enlist G'Kar's aid in backing Sheridan against Earth.
Sheridan told Commander Levitt the League wasn't getting involved because he wanted this to be a clean fight, presumably meaning no alien involvement. But in fact, aliens are already involved; the crew of the White Star fleet is largely Minbari, and the ships themselves are a Minbari/Vorlon concoction.
Did Garibaldi tell Edgars about Sheridan's imminent campaign? If so, Edgars doesn't appear to have relayed the information to Earth Force, since the commanders at Proxima 3 were unaware Sheridan was on the move. On the other hand, Garibaldi didn't know the particulars of the first phase of the campaign.
Earth appears to have improved its scanning technology; White Star ships were hit more than once during the battle. Previously, Earth weapon systems haven't been able to lock onto Minbari ships (e.g. "Points of Departure.") Presumably the White Stars, which incorporate much more advanced Vorlon technology as well, are even harder to get a fix on. Perhaps the Shadows supplied Earth with some technical tips.
In "War Without End, Part One" the White Star's Vorlon technology adapted its defenses to shrug off blasts from Shadow fighters after it was hit. Will the surviving White Stars from the battle at Proxima 3 now be more resistant to Earth's weapons, and thus even more potent weapons?
Did Garibaldi tell Edgars about Sheridan's imminent campaign? If so, Edgars doesn't appear to have relayed the information to Earth Force, since the commanders at Proxima 3 were unaware Sheridan was on the move. On the other hand, Garibaldi didn't know the particulars of the first phase of the campaign.
Earth appears to have improved its scanning technology; White Star ships were hit more than once during the battle. Previously, Earth weapon systems haven't been able to lock onto Minbari ships (e.g. "Points of Departure.") Presumably the White Stars, which incorporate much more advanced Vorlon technology as well, are even harder to get a fix on. Perhaps the Shadows supplied Earth with some technical tips.
In "War Without End, Part One" the White Star's Vorlon technology adapted its defenses to shrug off blasts from Shadow fighters after it was hit. Will the surviving White Stars from the battle at Proxima 3 now be more resistant to Earth's weapons, and thus even more potent weapons?




