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Old 09-03-03 | 06:00 AM
  #251  
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Today's Episode: A Late Delivery From Avalon

As Sheridan and Ivanova try to gain recognition of the station's new status among the alien governments, a traveler arrives with an unbelievable story out of distant legend.
Relying on a large number of races for the station's defense may turn out to be a logistical nightmare. Ivanova will have to deal with questions like the structure of the chain of command (does she have the authority to order a Vree ship to fire?) and what to do about races who've agreed to participate but whose enemies haven't, which could lead to a situation like the one in "The Fall of Night." Still, as a simple show of force and a deterrent, the arrangement may well end up being sufficient.

The Drazi ambassador now speaks for the League of Non-Aligned Worlds, whose membership seems to have gotten much smaller than a year ago. Perhaps many of the races have been taken over by their neighbors already, with Shadow help ("Severed Dreams.")
Old 09-03-03 | 06:57 AM
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I first thought this episode was going to be just plain silly, but it revealed how the Earth-Minbari war started. Pretty cool.

I don't understand, however, how the obviously inferior Prometheus destroyed two Minbari cruisers and crippled a third (killing Dukhat). Even if it was a "surprise" attack, the Minbari ships had approached with gun ports open - they should have been able to fire back quickly and restrict their losses to the first ship fired upon. I guess that will be explained in "In The Beginning".
Old 09-03-03 | 08:19 AM
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I first thought this episode was going to be just plain silly, but it revealed how the Earth-Minbari war started. Pretty cool.

I don't understand, however, how the obviously inferior Prometheus destroyed two Minbari cruisers and crippled a third (killing Dukhat). Even if it was a "surprise" attack, the Minbari ships had approached with gun ports open - they should have been able to fire back quickly and restrict their losses to the first ship fired upon. I guess that will be explained in "In The Beginning".
Well, ITB doesn't really go into it much more than what you saw.

Think of it this way, the Minbari ships were completely caught with their pants down. Even if the gun ports were open, they weren't expecting a fight. Not only that, but it's not as if Minbari ships are impossible to damage/destroy. It's just that humans had trouble locking onto their ships. The Minbari ships were probably coasting along, not trying to evade or anything, because they weren't expecting to be fired at. It would have been fairly easy to score several hits on a huge Minbari ship that's not trying to fight back.

And while I don't remember offhand if it's mentioned in "Avalon", but it wasn't just the Prometheus that took down the Minbari ships. There was at least one, maybe two, Nova class destroyers with it.
Old 09-03-03 | 08:36 AM
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The whole “gun ports open” is, if you think about it, quite silly. It relates back to the days when war ships were made of wood and they fought with cannonballs.

Best not to dwell on it – it’s just a very minor plot device. Else you’ll be wondering how the doors on Trek know just when to open, or the wormhole on SG-1 knows when the last man is thru…
Old 09-03-03 | 12:52 PM
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The whole “gun ports open” is, if you think about it, quite silly. It relates back to the days when war ships were made of wood and they fought with cannonballs.
You know, that's a good point. Every time we see a Minbari cruiser fire, it's always a beam from the little antenna on the front of the ship. It's not like there's ports that actually open or anything.

Best not to dwell on it – it’s just a very minor plot device. Else you’ll be wondering how the doors on Trek know just when to open...
Well, if they can manage it at the local grocery store, I think that they could pull it off on a futuristic starship
Old 09-03-03 | 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by xVladx
Well, if they can manage it at the local grocery store, I think that they could pull it off on a futuristic starship
Old 09-03-03 | 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by xVladx
Well, if they can manage it at the local grocery store, I think that they could pull it off on a futuristic starship


OK. You stand in front of the door with NO INTENTION of going in -- just inches away -- and see if it waits until you actually decide to go in.

(I think this item is in The Nitpicker's Guide to Star Trek.)






Scotty: Cap’n, we cannaw fire. Our gun ports are nay open!

Last edited by Wizdar; 09-03-03 at 01:23 PM.
Old 09-03-03 | 01:35 PM
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OK. You stand in front of the door with NO INTENTION of going in -- just inches away -- and see if it waits until you actually decide to go in.
To continue the nitpicking, perhaps the computer keeps track of the position and direction of every person in the room, and when someone is moving in what would appear to be the door (walks straight at it, etc), then it would open. There's got to be some sort of sensor system in these rooms, seeing as they can pinpoint the location of anybody on the ship down to the room.

Then again, have we ever seen anybody stand walk by one of the doors without the intention of going in?
Old 09-03-03 | 01:51 PM
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There was a TNG episode in the last coupla days where Riker walks to the door, stops, turns and has a line or two of dialogue. The door doesn't open until he turns back to leave.

Yeah, it happens all the time.

I still wanna know how the SG-1 wormhole will stay open, like, forever, until the last person goes thru.

Old 09-03-03 | 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by Wizdar
I still wanna know how the SG-1 wormhole will stay open, like, forever, until the last person goes thru.

I think the DS9 prophets have something to do with it.
Old 09-03-03 | 03:10 PM
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There was a TNG episode in the last coupla days where Riker walks to the door, stops, turns and has a line or two of dialogue. The door doesn't open until he turns back to leave.
<shrug> I've got no clue, then. Outside of just artistic license, of course. I mean, it would look pretty silly for the doors to open and close every time someone walked by them.

Now that I think of it, a B5 ep I watched the other day had a MedLab door open for Franklin when he was about halfway across the room, and just STARTED heading towards it.
Old 09-03-03 | 03:54 PM
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The doors on Star Trek work that because there are guys hiding behind the walls who open the doors when they need to be opened.

They're called "grips."

What I want to know is if O'Brien eavesdrops on the command crew while he's sitting in the transporter room. How else would he know who to beam in/out/around?
Old 09-03-03 | 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Wizdar
The whole “gun ports open” is, if you think about it, quite silly. It relates back to the days when war ships were made of wood and they fought with cannonballs.
Not terribly surprising, though, when you take into consideration the highly superstitous and tradition-bound nature of the Minbari.
Old 09-03-03 | 04:35 PM
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You guys are killin’ me!

xVladx, I believe the question was rhetorical in nature. And all in fun.

I’ve been waiting for someone to come up with the REAL answer to the "magic door" question, and Josh-da-man wins the cigar.

And, seriously, I think the answer to the gun port question is a damn_good one!



BTW, all away teams have a constant transporter lock on them. Just in case.
Old 09-03-03 | 04:55 PM
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BTW, all away teams have a constant transporter lock on them. Just in case.
I think he meant something different in his question, actually. It's another good one, too. Think about it, many times you'll have say three people on an away mission, and one stays behind for some reason while two go back to the ship. One of the guys going back always says "two to beam up". How the heck does the transporter operator know WHICH two to bring up to the ship?
Old 09-03-03 | 05:47 PM
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C'mon. You already know the answer to that one.

They use the same computer that knows when to open the door.

Old 09-04-03 | 06:00 AM
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Today's Episode: Ship of Tears

Bester finds himself at odds with others within the Psi Corps and seeks Sheridan's help, offering information about the Shadows in return. G'Kar presses for admission to the conspiracy of light.
The mere presence of Bester stopped the Shadow warship from attacking the White Star (assuming it didn't stop to avoid risking damage to the "weapons components.") Was that because it couldn't get close enough to attack without Bester interfering with its pilot's bond? In any case, the effect is consistent with Talia's experience in "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum," in which she was able to sense, even see, the Shadows without consciously probing for them.

A telepath who consciously chooses to disrupt a Shadow ship might be even more dangerous to them, though that isn't clear.

Is detecting other ships in hyperspace something peculiar to human telepaths? If not, do other races use telepaths for that purpose? It seems odd that the ability would remain a secret for so long if all races with telepaths can use them to scout in hyperspace. On the other hand, each race who's discovered the effect might consider it a military advantage and thus keep it under wraps.

Does Ivanova's latent telepathy provide any protection against attack by a Shadow ship? Ivanova has only encountered a Shadow ship once, in "Matters of Honor," and it fired at the White Star -- but it didn't hit the White Star. Perhaps Sheridan was wrong about why the Shadows missed. On the other hand, given the behavior of the Shadow ship in this episode, it's unlikely the ship in the previous encounter would have pursued the White Star like it did.
Old 09-04-03 | 07:51 AM
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On the heals of our recent trivia discussion, I’ve never understood what keeps shadows from attacking teeps.
Old 09-04-03 | 09:51 AM
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Obviously Bester will work with Sheridan et al only until his interests diverge from theirs. He wants supremecy of the teeps, but the Shadows must be defeated first. I wonder how involved Bester will be, and how far Sheridan will trust him (not very far, I bet).
Old 09-04-03 | 10:04 AM
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Re Bester and his future involvement with B5.

All I can say is something that’ll get me flogged (or whatever the current penalty is), so:

Old 09-04-03 | 11:16 AM
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Drawn and quartered is a little harsh, Wiz - perhaps a flogging would suffice for your implied "heh heh heh".
Old 09-04-03 | 02:17 PM
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OK. If you must.

But can we use the leather restraints this time? The metal handcuffs leave marks that are hard to explain to my wife.
Old 09-04-03 | 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by Wizdar
But can we use the leather restraints this time? The metal handcuffs leave marks that are hard to explain to my wife.


This page is certainly taking a few interesting turns......
Old 09-04-03 | 04:22 PM
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OK, moving to the mature forum

Good ole Bester coming round again. Part of me wishes Ivanova had blown him out of the sky but alas, that didn't happen. And I have no comments about Bester's future involvement with the B5 crew. (I'm trying to avoid flogging, restraints, or death penalties in this forum)

Bandoman, once you've finished viewing all the seasons, you should consider sinking your teeth into the B5 novels. The trilogy on the psi corp is pretty good.
Old 09-05-03 | 05:58 AM
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Today's Episode: Interludes and Examinations

Sheridan tries to rally support for his cause as direct confrontations with the Shadows begin in earnest. Friction increases between Londo and Morden.
Londo's new pact with Morden may foreshadow the loss of his second chance for redemption ("Point of No Return.") With Londo's poison coursing through his veins, Refa certainly qualifies as "the one who is already dead," and now Londo has vowed to kill him. Along similar lines, Kosh qualifies now too; Londo may attempt to kill Kosh's replacement, not realizing it's another Vorlon entirely.

What do the Shadows want? Delenn seems to know more than she's telling. Morden's keen interest in the Centauri's continued aggression may provide a clue, but it's ambiguous at best. If they simply want a constant state of chaos in the galaxy, their current strategy will eventually backfire; there won't be anyone left to carry on fighting.

The fact that the Shadows attacked Kosh immediately after the Vorlon victory over the Shadow fleet smacks of the notion that there was a deal of some sort between the two races: the Vorlons stay out of the fighting, and the Shadows leave them alone. If that's true, one sobering interpretation is that both races consider the war something of a game. On the other hand, the truth could be just the opposite; the Shadows may not have wanted to touch Kosh for fear of causing Vorlon retribution.


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