• Quoth xVladx •<HR SIZE=1>Just don't hold me responsible for the quality of the CP trilogy, if it's not that good . I actually haven't read it yet.<HR SIZE=1>

You're aware that this series is written by Peter David? I don't think you need to worry about quality.

das

Ah, good I'll get around to reading it one of these days...

The CP trilogy is excellent so like das said, no worries. If you want to know more about Londo's keeper then read those books.

But back to War Without End (with massive spoilers so das if you haven't seen it yet go away now!)- time travel storylines always confuse me. My brain starts swirling around the idea
OK, Sinclair is Valen (got it) but if the future has to happen before Valen can exist was there ever a timeline where Valen didn't exist? Then I start wondering if Kosh1 was one of the Vorlons aboard B4 when it arrived in the past. I know, I think too much but it doesn't take away from my enjoyment since these are two of my fav episodes.

I get all misty eyed when Sinclair tells Sheridan how much he wanted to see Garibaldi. It's all the more heartbreaking if you know what's going to happen later. Then I get misty eyed when Garibaldi gets Sinclair's message. Ugh does anybody know if they're going to announce S4 anytime soon?

• Quoth lisadoris •<HR SIZE=1>das if you haven't seen it yet go away now!<HR SIZE=1>

I haven't heard anything yet.

On the rest: those are the types of questions you can ask about any story with time-travel. But unlike, say Trek, this paradox was built into the timeline from the very beginning, making it all the cooler.

As you say, best to just enjoy it and not hurt your brain too much.



Here's another question: if Sinclair was meant to be Valen all along, would "War Without End" have come much closer to the end of the series had they not brought Sheridan in? I always remembered reading Bruce Boxleitner was cast to bring a "star" to the show and thereby raise the ratings. Or was that a cover story and it was the plan to replace Sinclair all along?

Well, it's like the Vorlon said at the beginning of the first part of WWE: "He is the closed circle. He is returning to the beginning". The Vorlons knew that Sinclair was Valen, and it's been hinted at that Kosh knew Valen personally (in The Gathering, we hear him thinking something like "Entil'Zha Valen" when he saw Sinclair for the first time (well, the Minbari posing as Sinclair, that is)). The timeline that our characters live in is the one where Sinclair went to the past and became Valen. In the even that that didn't happen, and Sinclair and company didn't take B4 into the past, then we would have seen a far different future, where B5 is destroyed, and Minbari society would have been MUCH different.

I wouldn't call it a paradox per se. Paradoxes usually only referr to things which would be a contradiction of some sort. What Sinclair did was, as he said, what he had always done, and was literally fated to do.

It's entirely possible. Different vorlons have different looking encounter suits, and the ones that are on either side of Valen do look a LOT like Kosh's.

I'm guessing things would have been much different. JMS has said that he had "trap doors" in mind for all of the characters on the show, in case an actor couldn't do the show any more, or just didn't want to (like Andrea Thompson). I'd be willing to bet that there was something else planned for Sinclair originally, but when they switched to Sheridan, Sinclair had to go through the trap door, and ended up being Valen.

Couple of things:

1 - I think JMS has pretty much confirmed that Kosh knew Valen back in the day, and knew he was a human from the future, but not necessarily which human. When Kosh saw Sinclair in "The Gathering," he recognized Sinclair as being Valen. But Kosh was the only Vorlon who knew this at the time.

2 - Regarding what would've happened if MOH had stayed on the series as Sinclair...

There are some contradictory things that we know.

First of all, before the pilot even aired, JMS had put out a little outline of the five year story. In it, he did say that the story of Babylon 5 was the story of Jeffrey Sinclair.

Second, in the fourth season, . This is seemingly a storyline made for Sinclair, considering the characters' history.

BUT... I also remember JMS saying, and I think it was right after "Babylon Squared" ended, that the flip-side to that story would air in the third year. And not only that, but that another player -- relating to "The One" -- would make appear on the playing field early in the third year. My guess is that this would've been Sheridan, who possibly would enter the series during the conflict with Earth during that time in the season. I would wager that Sheridan would likely have fulfilled the General Hague role for a while before becoming a major player. According to JMS, Sheridan (or at least some iteration of his charcter) was always planned, but was brought in early due to O'Hare's departure.

For the longest time, I've tried to pound out just what the original planned arc was. During the first year, JMS was always rather chatty about how the produced storyline deviated from his masterplan -- especially in relation to Laurel -- but by the time O'Hare left, he became quite tight-lipped.

Today's Episode: Grey 17 is Missing

This episode seems like such a letdown after World Without End but I did like the interaction between Marcus and Naroon. The Garibaldi and Freddie Kruger storyline could have been nixed.

Too bad it wasn't Freddy Krueger, that would of been more fun.

OK. If you put it like that, it'd be tough to disagree.

Garibaldi is my favorite character, and at this point he hasn't even got to do his best work yet.

I guess I just don't dislike this one as much as most.

Today's Episode: And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place

OK, this is my question about this ep: one of Londo's prophecies states that he shouldn't kill the one whose already dead. I've always been confused about whether that refers to Refa (who Londo more than likely poisoned so there was no need to take him out now) or if it refers to another person who will remain nameless.

I don't think that you've got #1 quite right. I think that his five chances are ones where he knew quite well what he was doing, but made poor decisions anyway. In S&P, he thought Morden was just some crazy human, and just wanted to get rid of him. His ranting about restoring his people was really him just losing his temper and snapping at the guy. I think that his first chance was actually what you called as #2 (the attack in CoS).

His second chance was probably going along with Refa and asking Morden to help defend the Centauri supply post in The Long Twilight Struggle. There he knew full well what he was doing, and that it would result in the bombing of the Narn homeworld, but went along with it anyway.

Well, this thread's gonna become spoiler-block fest, but here goes (spoilers for the fourth and fifth seasons of B5)...

This is why I thought Refa fit a little better into the prophecy scenerio. Londo was happy to leave Morden and the shadows alone until Adrina's death. But once he assumed (incorrectly) that Refa killed her, he ran back to Morden and more messiness ensues. I think JMS likes to keep things a little vague just so we'll all be scratching our heads about it for years to come.

must...avoid...spoilers...

The revelation of the fleet of White Stars was a real "Holy sh**" moment for me.

I watched pretty much the whole series when it aired here, and reading these messages while waiting for the R2 Season 3 box makes me crazy (I already have S1 and S2).

Brain says "Leave this thread. They are not for you. Go. Leave. Now" but alas, I'm still reading it all and drooling in anticipation

Just so I don't have to carry it over the weekend, I'm posting the last two episodes today.

Shadow Dancing

Z'ha'dum

This is a bit confusing, for me at least. On one hand you’ve got the above, which is clearly the intent of the author. On the other, and this is where I tend to drift, there is the psychic “We are all Kosh” thingie that has always suggested a telepathic connection. (Both ideas are supported in future episodes. Hhh)

I’ve always thought, perhaps incorrectly, that when Kosh tells Sheridan to jump, it is a telepathic link rather than an actual metaphysical “bond.”

All I can say about the cliffhanger is -AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHH!

Did Sheridan die, as Kosh said he would? Kosh also said that he wouldn't be there to help him, but he was - sort of. Does that mean that Sheridan really isn't dead?

What the hell is in that big pit? Is it a Shadow creation, or did the Shadows find it when they got there? Is the city surrounding the pit a Shadow city? How much damage did the explosion do to the Shadows?

So, Bando is that Season 4 premiere tape on it's way to you yet?

NO!!!! There is a delay because Seeker inconvenienty and inconsideratly fractured his heel into about 12 pieces, and claims that he can't get to it yet*, which really pisses me off. Since when does personal health and medical care come before B5? Huh? SINCE WHEN?!?! Bastard.






















*Actually, Seeker offered to make and send the tape anyway, but I told him to hold off and take care of his foot.