A band's creative lifespan
#51
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#52
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
Is Rattle and Hum an album album, though? It's more of a soundtrack/live/covers album than an real U2 album.
#54
DVD Talk Hero
Re: A band's creative lifespan
I don't really think of Rattle and Hum as the follow-up album to The Joshua Tree, though. It's still a soundtrack album with live tracks and covers. Achtung Baby feels like follow-up to The Joshua Tree more than R&H.
It kind of like saying Live After Death is next Maiden album after Powerslave, or Garage Days Re-revisited is the next Metallica album after Master of Puppets.
It kind of like saying Live After Death is next Maiden album after Powerslave, or Garage Days Re-revisited is the next Metallica album after Master of Puppets.
#55
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
No, it's not, because those were fully live or cover albums and weren't meant to be artistic statements the way the studio albums were. Rattle and Hum had new music that further explored the Americana the band began to mine with The Joshua Tree. That feels like much more of a follow-up to me than Achtung Baby, which has a much more European sound and explores more personal territory lyrically than Joshua Tree or Rattle and Hum.
If you want to think of it as a live album bundled with an EP then think of it that way, but it's definitely the band continuing in the direction they started with The Joshua Tree. Achtung Baby took them in a very different direction.
If you want to think of it as a live album bundled with an EP then think of it that way, but it's definitely the band continuing in the direction they started with The Joshua Tree. Achtung Baby took them in a very different direction.
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
The difference between "Rattle And Hum" and some of the other live/EP's mentioned is that U2 promoted Rattle And Hum as "a new U2 album" when it came out. Desire and Angel Of Harlem were big hit singles and all over MTV and they had a few other smaller singles off it as well. The media didn't treat it as some "for fans only" companion sequel to Joshua Tree but as the followup album. Most live albums and EP's are put out there and mainly marketed just to the converted and seen as product to kill some time between studio albums, U2's album was marketed as the event of the 1988 Christmas season.
#57
Re: A band's creative lifespan
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
Why not BTIUSA for Bruce? I know some fans hate it because at that moment in time "their" Boss belonged to the world, but that album was a non-stop tour de force, hell even Tunnel Of Love was excellent too. Human Touch was really the first "weak" album IMO.
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
Personally, I like the album a lot. The writing is good; the themes are certainly consistent with the rest of his catalogue. But I understand why some don't like it. I'd put it as the last album of his peak, personally.
I agree with whoever said Nebraska has to be there. It's his second best album IMO. Oddly, his other album in the same mold (Tom Joad) doesn't grab me like Nebraska does. Maybe I need to go back and try it again.
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
There ARE full band studio versions of everything on Nebraska, and I would love to finally hear them. I think Bruce should release "Electric Nebraska" for the album's 30th anniversary next year.
The Ghost of Tom Joad was a self-conscious attempt to do another Nebraska and that's why it does not work for me. The songs on Nebraska were meant to be rock songs and Bruce sang them that way. For Tom Joad, he seemed self-consciously downbeat and that seemed to suck all the life from the music. Only the title track and "Youngstown" really come to life for me at all.
I didn't include BitUSA in the creative peak years, but not because it's not a great album. It is. But I think that was the point where Bruce started become self-conscious about who Bruce Springsteen was and it shows. Tunnel of Love was also a good album, and I actually liked the "Other Band" material from the early '90s. I just think that there was a vibe running through his material from his second album through the rest of the '70s that his other music can't touch.
If I were going to be really picky, I might put the cutoff at 1978 with Darkness on the Edge of Town. If you listen to the outtakes from that era on Tracks and The Promise, you realize how much they sound like The River. I think he should have called The River "20 Songs That Wouldn't Fit on Darkness."
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
Those are some excellent points you make, aintnosin.
I agree with you that there is a "lightning in a bottle" aspect to those Nebraska demos that isn't something that can be consciously captured. It definitely shows on The Ghost of Tom Joad.
I also agree that one could be picky about The River. It's a really good album, and the best material on it is top-drawer, certainly enough to include it in the peak years. But deep down I feel that I could probably rip it onto a computer and cut it down to three great sides, or about a sixty-minute CD, and do without a handful of the songs.
The Darkness-period outtakes on Tracks do sound somewhat of a piece with what's on The River. I have the big boxed set of The Promise and haven't listened to all the material yet, but I suspect that when I do I'll hear more along those lines.
I agree with you that there is a "lightning in a bottle" aspect to those Nebraska demos that isn't something that can be consciously captured. It definitely shows on The Ghost of Tom Joad.
I also agree that one could be picky about The River. It's a really good album, and the best material on it is top-drawer, certainly enough to include it in the peak years. But deep down I feel that I could probably rip it onto a computer and cut it down to three great sides, or about a sixty-minute CD, and do without a handful of the songs.
The Darkness-period outtakes on Tracks do sound somewhat of a piece with what's on The River. I have the big boxed set of The Promise and haven't listened to all the material yet, but I suspect that when I do I'll hear more along those lines.
#66
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
sometimes a change in musical tastes kills the last generation. the whole blues based hair metal wave ended with nirvana and pearl jam. after a few years people get tired listening to the same music
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
Couple of exceptions:
Dream Theater: Made it big with Images and Words in 92 and have gradually gotten bigger over the last 20 years. Their last album debuted at number 6, their highest yet.
Tool: First successful album was Undertow back in 93. They release an album every 5 years since (6 for their next album if released next year) and they are still outputting extremely creative/successful albums.
Dream Theater: Made it big with Images and Words in 92 and have gradually gotten bigger over the last 20 years. Their last album debuted at number 6, their highest yet.
Tool: First successful album was Undertow back in 93. They release an album every 5 years since (6 for their next album if released next year) and they are still outputting extremely creative/successful albums.
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
You need to include Maiden's debut as part of the band's peak... still my fav Maiden album.
Judas Priest 78-84 (Stained Class to Defenders of The Faith)
Judas Priest 78-84 (Stained Class to Defenders of The Faith)
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
It's even worse in hiphop usually. Usually an artists first album is there best. They have 5-10 years of material built up to that first album and then their life gets very busy and they have to pump out their next albums every 2 years. It actually makes sense that Dr. Dre comes out with an album every 10 years and its been a classic both times. Some MCs can put out a decent album every year, but this is not the norm. Lots of one and dones.
Mf doom had a good run of 5 years or so. Curren$y has potential. I'd say wu-tang as a group had more than 5 years. There are others but it isn't a long list.
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
A few that haven't been mentioned
Eurythmics 1982-1987 (Sweet Dreams through Savage, We Two Are One had moments but it was definitely their worst album until their reunion album)
Donna Summer 1976-1981 (Four Seasons Of Love through the not-released-until-1996 I'm A Rainbow.... the magic was lost once she stopped working with Giorgio Moroder. She still had some good songs but she became just another female r&b/dance/pop singer)
Eurythmics 1982-1987 (Sweet Dreams through Savage, We Two Are One had moments but it was definitely their worst album until their reunion album)
Donna Summer 1976-1981 (Four Seasons Of Love through the not-released-until-1996 I'm A Rainbow.... the magic was lost once she stopped working with Giorgio Moroder. She still had some good songs but she became just another female r&b/dance/pop singer)
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
Personally, I like Train of Thought and I have mixed feelings about everything since, but I know plenty of people that think they haven't released anything worthwhile since SFaM or SDoIT.
#73
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
Yeah, DT is my favorite band, but they've been stuck in neutral since SFaM* which was their creative high point.
That's not to say all the albums since have sucked, quite the opposite. I love them all(well BC&SL a little less), they just haven't grown much since. You could swap songs from Black Clouds & Systematic Chaos with tunes from Train of Thought and Octavarium and you'd never know the difference. The past 4 albums are all interchangeable, where their first decade of albums(WD&DU through 6°*) are all unique.
It is hard to argue with their popularity like leem mentioned. They have only grown in popularity in the past 20 years. It usually works the other way around.
*6° is a weird album for me. It falls, coincidentally, right in the middle of the two decades and shift in creativity. Some days I'd put it in the first group, other days I'm like, 'eh, and would toss it in with the recent stuff.
That's not to say all the albums since have sucked, quite the opposite. I love them all(well BC&SL a little less), they just haven't grown much since. You could swap songs from Black Clouds & Systematic Chaos with tunes from Train of Thought and Octavarium and you'd never know the difference. The past 4 albums are all interchangeable, where their first decade of albums(WD&DU through 6°*) are all unique.
It is hard to argue with their popularity like leem mentioned. They have only grown in popularity in the past 20 years. It usually works the other way around.
*6° is a weird album for me. It falls, coincidentally, right in the middle of the two decades and shift in creativity. Some days I'd put it in the first group, other days I'm like, 'eh, and would toss it in with the recent stuff.
#74
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
I definitely think their creative peak was the mid to late 90s.
#75
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Re: A band's creative lifespan
I'm not an expert, but I think this would work for Weezer as well.
Weezer - 1994-2001 (Blue-Green)
Not exactly 5 years, but they did have a break for a few years between #2 and #3. In my friend's opinion, once Matt Sharp left it was downhill.
Weezer - 1994-2001 (Blue-Green)
Not exactly 5 years, but they did have a break for a few years between #2 and #3. In my friend's opinion, once Matt Sharp left it was downhill.