Dimension X

Heck, I just passed it off as Darkseid is immortal, so he had time to wait until it looked like easy pickings. Which is why the Mother Boxes slept until there were no gods, Lanterns, or Kryptonians left on Earth.
People can always find something to bitch about (one way or another): https://www.cbr.com/zack-snyder-just...-deserved-cut/

Why So Blu?

Sure, why not. Also in the scene where he gets dragged on to the ship, he still has one of Artemis's arrows in his chest. The Gods fucked him up. Folks continue to overthink this bullshit just like they did with the Cyborg- ATM non-issue.

fujishig

Is there any valid criticism of any plotpoint in any film or is it always just overthinking?

That no prize explanation doesn't even make sense if you actually watch the movie. Here's the scene where Steppenwolf tells Desaad and Darkseid:


He basically says "hey, after I got defeated on that world, we completely forgot where it was."

Again, they know that there are three motherboxes left on this world, but it doesn't dawn on them until this very scene that this is the same planet that defied them. How many motherboxes did they misplace?

It's just a bit of a mess, and since it's the central motivation of the main villain, it's probably fair to criticize it.

Dimension X

If you're going to live forever, unless someone (or something) stronger than you kills you, why take chances? Heck, the Boom Tube was open at the end, if Darkseid was in a hurry, he could have stepped through and fought Superman and Wonder Woman himself.

Why So Blu?

Agreed. He could have flooded on through with his armada. But Darkseid never rushes into bullshit now. He learned his lesson when he got nearly split in half by the god of war.

Dimension X

Yeah, it's fair to criticize it, but it's also fair to point out that Steppenwolf, who was "on the outs" with Darkseid, had only been in contact with DeSaad (essentially Darkseid's secretary) before that. Maybe DeSaad told Darkseid that Steppenwolf found a Mother Box, we don't know. Then, in that clip, when Steppenwolf tells him he's found a second Box, and surprise, surprise, he's actually on the planet where Darkseid had his ass handed to him, DeSaad goes and gets Darkseid. Darkseid didn't necessarily "forget" about Earth, we don't know if he even knew which planet Steppenwolf was on before that conversation.

Koby

Much better than the 2017 version... but there was a lot of stuff that could've been cut out. It was weird that Aquaman had to take off his shirt and throw it down every time he goes back to the ocean. Where does he keep getting new shirts from? Worst part about the film was that Amber Heard was in it after all the abuse Depp endured and yet WB dumped him and not her.

Runaway

I think neither of them should have been dropped. They were in a toxic relationship and it seems to me they both were abusive. Just keep on working with both of them.

actionjackson29

Yeah, I think you’re right. A lot men out there seem to want to stick it to her because she wasn’t completely truthful.

Xander

Seriously, are you Zack Snyder or something? We're not allowed to complain about the MAIN plot point in the movie? Darkseid gets his ass beat one ONE planet in the entire universe, leaves the most important objects in the universe there, and just forgets which one it is? That's fucking stupid and just bad writing.

Anyway, finished up. The second part feels way more cohesive than the first half. Still a LOT of slow motion. And it does point out the big flaw in the DCU: why do you even need a Justice League with Superman around? But that's not really Snyder's fault or his problem to fix. Overall, better than the Whedon cut, still a lot of problems, Snyder needs to have somone on set telling him "no more slow motion!" lol.

E Unit

Looking forward to this.

Michael Corvin

Jason

Yeah, but a 2 1/2 hour cut of this, without the epiloges, would have been a much much better movie than what was released as an actual movie they expected people to pay good money to see. I knew the theatrical JL movie was bad, but I had no idea just how much of it was pure whedon bullshit.

Just getting rid of all of Steppenwolf's endless lame "mother is calling" jokes was enough for me, but we also lost a ton of other needless crap. Everyone is talking about Cyborg being rehabilitated by this, and he was, but Flash comes across much better too. No brunch, no I've never been in a battle, no Dostoyevsky, And he ends up saving the world.

One thing I thought the theatrical version handled better was the debate about whether or not to resurrect Superman in the first place. Whedon gave us arguments about losing your soul when you die, Snyder? No one seems to even consider it's not a good idea. That and I did like Steppenwolf's original(?) response to people telling him they have families.

I'd love to show this to someone who has never seen Justice League and then show them the theatrical version.

Michael Corvin

Aquaman was against it in both versions.

SmackDaddy

Isn't this just a problem with any super hero team up? With Captain Marvel in the MCU can't you just cast aside any/all "human" heroes? I think that's why Snyder went the death of Superman plot to keep him out of the way (in the same way that they kept Marvel out of the majority of the final Endgame battle) while the "regulars" put up a fight. I'm also guessing that's why the future films had Superman as a bad guy so that our heroes would have something to overcome.

IBJoel

I would just call that... Bad Superman writing (no pun intended), which Terrio/Snyder have consistently done.

Superman is the most powerful, but Post-Crisis, he's usually not portrayed as stronger than the entire Justice League combined, which is how he comes off in the final battle (allowing for the idea that the others were holding back when fighting him earlier). That's without getting into the whole ball of wax that is his characterization.

Actually, wait a second. In Man of Steel, he's forced to kill Zod and has a small breakdown. In BvS, he dies. In JL2, he was supposed to lose his wife and become enslaved... Does Snyder just hate Superman?

Mike86

I think Snyder tried things to humanize Superman more because he’s often thought of as being too perfect and powerful.

It may have become too heavy with what’s the next thing that happens to him, but actually I would like seeing the Knightmare sequence play out with an evil Superman because of Lois’ death. That’s basically the story of the Injustice games.

Runaway

Superman isn't an easy character to write for if you want to make it interesting. That's why kryptonite exists in the first place. Being rich is the only super power he can't easily match and that's only why he chooses not to. Superman should always we stronger than the Justice League combined, he is Superman. In my opinion showing him as weeker is the poor Superman writing.
Terrio and Snyder came up with a good way every team member had to do their part to defeat Steppenwolf and while every single task could have been handled by Superman alone, besides hacking into the mother boxes, he couldn't have done them all in the same time.

I mean it's a pretty common thing to weaken the superhero for some part of the story, it's not an invention of Snyder, it's kind of in every single comic. Strip Superman of is high morals and he just has to throw a house on Lex Luthor or any other enemy who could only be dangerous to Superman when near him. Don't blame Snyder for Superman being over-powered

Draven

Maybe.

Josh-da-man

This is always a problem with characters like Superman or Captain Marvel. They are so powerful (physical strength, speed, invulnerable) that you either have to develop an antagonist who is at least their equal (Doomsday), find a way to depower them (Kryptonite), or present them with a moral quandary (killing Zod).

Runaway

Perhaps he just hates doing the one story over and over again. I didn't need Bryan Singer's sequel to a 20 year old movie, with no action whatsoever.

Why So Blu?

And in that ZS quote, that's pretty much what The Boys is. Folks can get behind that series because those characters are not iconic. But don't let Superman kill Zod because the whole nerd world goes to shit. "That's not the Superman I grew up with," etc. Guess what, without Superman doing things that are out of his norm, he's a boring character. Always has been.

Draven

I won't argue that is overall a bit of a boring film, but the plane sequence is the best Superman movie moment of all time, IMHO.

I'm not a Superman fan at all (or a DC fan in general) but I am sure there are great Superman stories from the comics that don't require a "bad-ass" neck snap to be watchable.

Why So Blu?

I should clarify: The first Superman is ok. The Donner Cut of part 2 is cool. The, ironically, scene of deconstruction in Superman III where Supes has to battle his inner demons is cool; the rest is trash. Part 4 is also trash. Superman Returns is also bad. Seems that they can only get it right via the animated series, but then again, that's animation and the sky's the limit. ZS's version is ballsy because it's actually quite different. He goes full on with the deconstruction. Hey, another super powered being comes to Earth to kill the people I love, I may just have to kill this guy and that works for me. Also, Superman is still in his "infancy" in MOS.

fujishig

Yes, every Superman story outside of Snyder and various Elseworlds has been trash. It's amazing they still publish his comic and they didn't just turn Injustice into the mainline DC Universe.

Like I said earlier, you can make a Batman that kills people left and right and has the power to shoot unicorns out of his armpits, but then why use Batman? If I want a morally challenged Superman who was raised to fear what humanity would do to him if they found out who he was, then why use Superman? I realize comics are all work for hire and the powers and personality of Superman has changed drastically over the decades, but I don't see it as a problem if some people don't like a Superman who kills on his first mission out, or a Pa Kent that says "maybe" or an unhinged Batman. These are valid criticisms of any adaptation of one source to another.

Could you have a film where Lois sleeps with Bruce Wayne and has his baby? I guess, I mean these are fictional characters. But expect a ton of backlash if you do it.

I realize you have Snyder criticism fatigue but you can't just go "stop nitpicking" when someone brings up a contrary point or doesn't like an aspect of the film.