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-   -   The General Star Wars Discussion Thread (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/648960-general-star-wars-discussion-thread.html)

Jay G. 11-21-23 02:31 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
I found an article that somewhat explains the difference between Filoni's new role and his previous role as Executive Creative Director :
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...ka-dave-filoni

“Now I’m what’s called chief creative officer of Lucasfilm,” Filoni tells Vanity Fair, which places him into the development process much earlier and in a much more expansive capacity than his previous advisory duties. “In the past, in a lot of projects I would be brought into it, I would see it after it had already developed a good ways.”

Filoni will now work more directly with Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy and alongside Carrie Beck, a veteran producer turned head of development, to originate and shepherd the next generation of Star Wars shows and movies. After spending many years involved in the creation of Star Wars animation, including the Rebels series, he became increasingly involved in live-action as a producer with Jon Favreau on the The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett. “In this new role, it’s opened up to basically everything that’s going on,” Filoni says. “When we’re planning the future of what we’re doing now, I’m involved at the inception phase.”

Timber 11-21-23 03:14 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
Should've been replacing KK. This is half a step forward.

Goldberg74 11-21-23 04:09 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by IBJoel (Post 14353264)
I'm in the minority most likely, but that's devastating news to me. The guy plays up all my least-favorite aspects of the franchise and downplays all the parts I love. The embodiment of Star Wars "folding in on itself", as I call it.

I’m with you. I love how much good he’s done for the franchise and how his knowledge and reverence for mythology grows and stretches the galaxy.

What I hope is that he is open to other voices and views and doesn’t try to do too much and delegates others to cover his weaknesses.

Other than that, I’m okay with him taking the reins.


Originally Posted by Timber (Post 14353361)
Should've been replacing KK. This is half a step forward.

That’s the next step.
​​​​​​​

Josh-da-man 11-21-23 07:26 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by IBJoel (Post 14353264)
I'm in the minority most likely, but that's devastating news to me. The guy plays up all my least-favorite aspects of the franchise and downplays all the parts I love. The embodiment of Star Wars "folding in on itself", as I call it.

Yeah... I'm kind of sketchy on Filoni, myself.

When it comes to Ahsoka Tano (probably his biggest contribution to the Star Wars mythos) I'm ambivalent. On the one hand, she had a really intersting arc on Clone Wars. On the other, she reeks of being Filoni's Mary Sue/Creator's Pet, who is arbitrarily woven in between the movies, and it often feels like Filoni is trying to make her into the central character. I mean, it's kind of weird that Anakin had this Padawan who was a big influence on him and who had all of these adventures with between AOTC and ROTS, but is never even hinted at in those movies. And then she keeps popping up in Rebels, The Mandalorian, and is hanging out with Luke Skywalker. It's almost like he's writing fan fiction. And then there's Rex and Hondo...

And I'm also not a fan of the he handles The Force; in Clone Wars he introduced this woo-woo-ish stuff about the Living Force and the Cosmic Force, Mortis, and the Father, Daughter, and Son business. The Force works best when it's not over-explained. It should just be kept this mysterious energy field that certain people can tap into, and not put a face (or faces) onto it. Should have taken a cue when everyone hated the introduction of midichlorians into the mythology in The Phantom Menace.

As much as I've been disappointed by the Disney era of Star Wars, I'm not convinced that Filoni is the guy to right the ship. And I'm also not convinced that the ship can even be righted at this point without drastic measures that I doubt Disney would be willing to take.



TGM 11-21-23 07:47 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
Filoni mostly gets it. He also obviously treats it with reverence so I doubt he'll sign off on some total bullshit like The Last Jedi, or to be more fair, sign off on a trilogy of movies that don't have a fucking cohesive vision heading into it.

kefrank 11-21-23 09:57 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by TGM (Post 14353463)
Filoni mostly gets it. He also obviously treats it with reverence so I doubt he'll sign off on some total bullshit like The Last Jedi, or to be more fair, sign off on a trilogy of movies that don't have a fucking cohesive vision heading into it.

https://uproxx.com/tv/dave-filoni-ri...t-jedi-mentor/

Jay G. 11-21-23 10:08 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man (Post 14353454)
And I'm also not a fan of the he handles The Force; in Clone Wars he introduced this woo-woo-ish stuff about the Living Force and the Cosmic Force, Mortis, and the Father, Daughter, and Son business. The Force works best when it's not over-explained. It should just be kept this mysterious energy field that certain people can tap into, and not put a face (or faces) onto it. Should have taken a cue when everyone hated the introduction of midichlorians into the mythology in The Phantom Menace.

Keep in mind that George Lucas still had an influence over The Clone Wars. Mortis was George's pitch:
https://www.starwars.com/video/overl...ode-featurette

More info about those episodes:
https://www.starwars.com/video/altar...ode-featurette
https://www.starwars.com/video/ghost...ode-featurette

Jay G. 11-22-23 07:12 AM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by kefrank (Post 14353509)

Personally, this just makes me like Filoni more.

However, context for those that don't click through, Dave Filoni said:

I visited J.J. [Abrams] on The Force Awakens, I visited Gareth Edwards [on Rogue One] and I visited Rian on [The Last Jedi]. But Rian was the one who shoved me up front, sticking lenses in my hand and really getting me immersed in it. And so I still talk with him to this day. He’s obviously a very talented filmmaker, and I was just very fortunate to be in such an environment where I could sit and listen and learn.
An uncharitable reading is that Filoni is hugely influenced by Rian Johnson and his writing/filmmaking style. However, I think the mark of a good mentor is someone who wants to cultivate their mentee's own talents and own point of view, not make a carbon copy of themselves, and to me I think Rian Johnson is likely of that type.

Also, considering the quote states this mentorship goes back to TLJ, that means it's existed through all of The Mandalorian, Ahsoka, part of Star Wars Rebels, the last bit of The Clone Wars, etc. Do people see "Rian Johnson," for better or worse, in those works?

MLBFan24 11-22-23 08:46 AM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
I was under the impression that Filoni was also still being mentored by George Lucas, based on what I saw on the Ahsoka behind-the-scenes on Disney+.


[4 minute mark] - can't get more literal than what Jon Favreau said.

Jay G. 11-22-23 09:33 AM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by MLBFan24 (Post 14353605)
I was under the impression that Filoni was also still being mentored by George Lucas, based on what I saw on the Ahsoka behind-the-scenes on Disney+.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ep3jzAJnh8

[4 minute mark] - can't get more literal than what Jon Favreau said.

If we're going by what Jon Favreau literally says, he says "George was his teacher, and Dave was his apprentice," both past-tense.

However, at least informally, one can have multiple teachers, mentors, advisors, etc. Filoni probably has a stable of people that he admires that he can reach out to for advice, input, etc. , but Filoni isn't any one of those people, he's his own person. So yes, he's been influenced by others, but he clearly has his own viewpoint.

However, one interesting bit from that video is that it makes clear that making Ahsoka Anakin's Padawan was, again, George's idea.

Going back to just her existence in the Clone Wars and other works, a big issue with The Clone Wars was, we know how it ends. So there was never dramatic tension for the characters Obi-Wan, Anakin, Yoda, etc. on whether they'd live or die. With Ahsoka and some other Clone Wars characters though, the fact that they didn't appear in other works meant we didn't know if they'd survive. And for Ahsoka, due to what we know happened to the Jedi, the cards were sort of stacked against her actually surviving. Not to mention the show went on for 7 seasons and 133 episodes, and there's only so much you can do with Obi-Wan and Anakin when their character growth is basically fixed. So the show did need to expand out and explore other characters and facets of the Star Wars universe.

Abob Teff 11-22-23 06:32 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
I'm with IBJoel and company. I am not convinced Filoni is the savior or even the master many claim. He has some good ideas and I really appreciate the reverence he has for the IP. However, he is either too childish or has toiled in the childish side of the universe for too long. Most of his stuff comes off as fan-fic, and not necessarily the good stuff. His good is outweighed by his baggage.

As for the explanations of the Force, I do agree with you, Josh-da-man, that it works best as a hokey old religion. However, I can appreciate that Filoni trying to inject his own explanation might actually make things work better: it's all theories, viewed differently by different people/cultures, with no real knowledge.

Michael Corvin 11-22-23 10:19 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
Dave Filoni has done some solid stuff with Clone Wars, Rebels, Mandolorian (season 1 & 2), and Bad Batch, but the bad (Boba Fett and Mando season 3) is fucking wretched.

Also, I agree with Josh-da-man about Ahsoka. She's a great character but Filoni loves shoving her in fucking everything. Lucas may have been his mentor but he should have been taking notes from Spielberg with Jaws and learned how "less is more."

It's also comical how many freaking Jedi were apparently alive during Return of the Jedi when Yoda tells Obi-wan that Luke and Leia are it, and humanity's last chance. They need to tone that shit down.

So I'm ambivalent about Filoni at this point. He's done some good, done some bad. I guess if anything he's better than the rudderless ship that's been running Lucasfilm since Disney bought them.

Count Dooku 11-24-23 02:47 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
So, I'll just drop this story in here. Yesterday, I met a 55 year old man who has never seen a Star Wars movie.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...be17b7c754.gif


He was born in 1967, so I couldn't wrap my head around him not seeing Star Wars original release in a theater, but he said that his parents didn't take him to movies when he was growing up. That would be something to unpack, but no time for that at a Thanksgiving dinner.

But still, his entire adult life , and he was never curious about this thing that has captured the imagination of generations of people?

Nope. Just not interested.

Mondo Kane 11-24-23 02:54 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
^Madeline Stowe had never seen a Star Wars movie either. And why the complete random suggestion of her? Because, while doing press for The General's Daughter, she (Along with Travolta, James Woods and Timothy Hutton) were all asked if they had seen the original Star Wars movies prior to Phantom Menace coming out. That's how HUGE the hype was for Phantom Menace at that time!

Meathead 11-24-23 02:54 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Count Dooku (Post 14354623)
Yesterday, I met a 55 year old man who has never seen a Star Wars movie.

Heretic !!! :lol: A New Hope was my first theater experience.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...d7ab448622.jpg


stvn1974 11-24-23 05:00 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by Meathead (Post 14354626)
Heretic !!! :lol: A New Hope was my first theater experience.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...d7ab448622.jpg

Mine was Star Wars.

Michael Corvin 11-25-23 03:25 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
Mine was Empire. I was only 5 though, so I don't recall much.

IBJoel 11-27-23 01:23 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
While they weren't my first movie experiences, I saw the Special Editions in theaters at the same age my mom was when she saw the first film in theaters during its original release.

Abob Teff 11-27-23 08:49 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by IBJoel (Post 14355612)
While they weren't my first movie experiences, I saw the Special Editions in theaters at the same age my mom was when she saw the first film in theaters during its original release.

I have to really give this post some love . . . even though it makes me feel old.

My oldest two were 4 and 6 when the Special Editions hit theaters. One of my fondest memories was taking them to see it at the local theater I worked at when I was younger. They really didn't care, but I did. We ended up having a "floor picnic" since we went on a not very crowded night.

dex14 12-14-23 08:33 AM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Adam Driver is opening up about how his character on Star Wars: The Force Awakens evolved over time.

The actor who played Kylo Ren in the Star Wars sequel trilogy revealed that the villain was not originally supposed to redeem himself in the end.

“J.J. Abrams walked me through what he wanted to do with the character, but you had to sign up and be like, ‘I’m gonna do it,’ and once I did that, I went to London to star for pre-production,” Driver recalled during an appearance on The Rich Eisen Show. “And it’s like, ‘there’s a tiny room down the hall, you can go in there and read the script.’ And so I was reading it for the first time.”

He continued, “I had an overall arc that in mind that [Abrams] wanted to do. His idea was that [Kylo’s] journey was the opposite journey of Vader, where Vader starts the most confident and the most committed to the dark side. And then by the last movie, he’s the most vulnerable and weak. He wanted to start with the opposite. This character was the most confused and vulnerable, and by the end of the three movies, he would be the most committed to the dark side. I tried to keep that arc in mind, regardless if that wound up not being the journey anyway, because it changed while shooting. But I was still focused on that.”

Driver played Kylo Ren in The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker. It was The Last Jedi director Rian Johnson who steered the character into another direction.

“The last one, it changed into being, you know, about them and the dyad, and things like that,” Driver added. “And evolving into Ben Solo. That was never a part of it. He was Ben Solo from the beginning, but there was never a version where we’d see Ben Solo when I first signed up for it.”
https://deadline.com/2023/12/star-wa...ed-1235667338/

GoldenJCJ 12-14-23 09:02 AM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
^ I’m one of the people who would have preferred Kylo not being redeemed. You can’t kill one of the most beloved characters in cinematic history and convincingly come back from that in the audience’s eyes.

But sure, redeeming him and then having a death scene that’s so terrible it rivals Mary Corleone is a way to go too.

milo bloom 12-14-23 04:44 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
I don't hate his redemption because the idea of Leia and Han pulling him back is a pretty powerful bit of storytelling in my book, but I can also see how the opposite could have been pretty powerful too. It also would have worked better for Luke's journey, having his introduction be as a hermit but he agrees to come back and shows off all his flashy moves and whatnot, but Kylo has gotten too strong, so *then* Luke has to do something unexpected like the Force projection trick he did in TLJ. That would have been better for both characters.

IBJoel 12-14-23 04:49 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
I think basically every character should be redeemable in Star Wars. At its core, the series is incredibly optimistic. Shoehorning in a romance between him and Rey elicited audible groans in my opening night showing, my own voice being one of them.

I don't think they should have killed him, though. On top of being a great character, it would be really interesting to see how a Ren/Ben has to now live with his actions in the past and how others would feel about this guy now being "on our side".

devilshalo 12-14-23 06:24 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Originally Posted by IBJoel (Post 14363121)
I think basically every character should be redeemable in Star Wars. At its core, the series is incredibly optimistic. Shoehorning in a romance between him and Rey elicited audible groans in my opening night showing, my own voice being one of them.

I don't think they should have killed him, though. On top of being a great character, it would be really interesting to see how a Ren/Ben has to now live with his actions in the past and how others would feel about this guy now being "on our side".

It may be a point for the Rey series if Kylo came back as a force ghost to her. Not so much as a mentor, but because they shared a connection that she didn't really have with Luke or Leia.

milo bloom 12-14-23 07:19 PM

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 
Yeah, I absolutely want to see Kylo Ren as a Force ghost in the new Rey movie, Driver really carried the sequels for sure.


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