Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

It's AI upscaling that's generating new detail that it thinks should go there, based on models trained on tons of other footage.

Specifically, they used Topaz Labs Video Enhance AI. Here's a promo vid:

You need a fairly good graphics card to get reasonable speeds in processing, and it can still take several seconds per frame, hence why the guy made an upscaled "trailer" instead of doing the full special.
https://support.topazlabs.com/articl...20each%20frame.

Here's a video going through the process a bit. As it's from 2020, it's a bit dated. For example, his note about interlaced video has been addressed by Topaz adding in a deinterlacer. But it's still a good general overview of the process:

This video is specifically about upscaling old VHS tapes, and using a few techniques, including AI:

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

That's some powerful software, I hope it's only used for good...

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Narrator: It wasn't.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

It's definitely important to keep in mind that it's not recovering information, since any original detail not in the source can't be recovered. It can created impressive and realistic results, but it's a fabrication that just looks close to what the reality could've been, not what it actually was.

So the old "enhance" trope in police procedurals would, realistically, create fabrications that likely wouldn't be admissible in court, or at least need to be clearly identified as altered.

This actually came up in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial, when the judge wouldn't allow pinch-to-zoom on an iPad unless the prosecution could show that doing so wasn't generating new image data:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...re-transcript/
Back to just discussing entertainment, there's hobbyists using this for various projects, like upscaling Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. On one hand, they're giving fans a higher-quality version of the content. On the other, it's typically impaired by being based on an MPEG-2 encoded DVD, and of course a studio could go back and do the real work of actually rescanning the original film at a higher resolution, re-rendering and recompositing the CGI and other effects, etc.

This video isn't about AI upscaling specifically, but goes into, with a rush to post 4K versions of older music videos on Youtube, some record labels went the cheap route and upscaled instead of rescanning the original film sources:

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

The $5000 a stay Star Wars Hotel Disney World...


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...48733c4772.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...fb32295bcc.jpg
"Hey, what are those Twileks doing in Ten Forward?"

Looks like 80s/90s Star Trek.

I guess now the Canto Bight scene in The Last Jedi makes more sense. Disney is telling us that the Star Wars universe is not all grease, rust, grime, and sand. There is luxury to be enjoyed. Experience it yourself for you and family for only ten grand! Take that, you red-pillers who thought Canto Bight was an anti-capitalist message!

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

The Holiday Special footage is quite impressive considering it was made a four decade old home video recording of an analog broadcast OTA or cable tv broadcast. They aren't recovering information, but it also doesn't look like complete shit. (Even though it IS complete shit. It's still the Star Wars Holiday Special. :lol: )

A while back I saw a video on Youtube about upscaling DS9 and VOY using this or similar technology. Curiously, the DS9 footage looked better than the VOY footage which they described as looking like an oil painting, but I didn't really see it, probably because I was watching it on a small screen.

And Warners did something similar with Babylon 5 for HBOMax, did they not?

I wonder if they could make HD transfers of DS9 and VOY using a mixed method of taking the usable film footage, and then upscaling the scenes with CGI. (As I understand the situation, the need to re-render CGI from those two series is what kept them from getting the TNG treatment.) It's an imperfect solution, but if they're unwilling the re-render the CGI in HD it seems like a decent enough compromise.

I also wouldn't be averse to having them mastered in 720p if there would be a discrepancy in the quality of upscaled SD footage and the film footage in order to provide a more consistent look.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

The HD remaster for Bablyon 5 involved WB going back and re-scanning all the filmed live-action footage. The CGI and any shot that composited live action with visual effects were upconverted as well. The CGI on its own looks ok upconverted, but the live-action composite scenes are notably lower quality than the rest of the footage. Also, the pilot episode is just a basic upconvert from SD, as they lost all the film for it.

It definitely doesn't look like an AI assisted upscaling, but something more basic like bicubic or bilinear interpolation:
https://jonfryd.medium.com/comparing...e-78fc81914567

I'm not aware of a commercial release that has used AI upscaling, at least not for the majority or entirety of the work. Maybe some productions have snuck a shot or two in.

It's all about money. I think at least the first season of DS9 uses little CGI, as they started out using mostly models, as TNG was still using at the time. The main issue is that the TNG remasters did not sell as well as CBS hoped, and DS9 and VOY likely would sell even worse. Maybe an AI upscale would lower the costs enough, but the results aren't likely to look nearly as good as TOS and TNG's remasters.

1080p is likely the bare minimum to get a broadcaster or streamer to pay a higher fee for an HD remaster, vs just continuing to use the SD master. For physical media release, it'd have to be 1080p, if not now 4K. Paramount itself likely sees it as not likely to provide a meaningful enough boost in views on Paramount+ to justify the cost.

Some things are just too niche for the major companies to care about. Think about how Disney hasn't released the original Star Wars cuts, even as a bonus feature. The vast majority of people are fine with watching George's altered cuts. Even if they prefer the original cuts and would watch them if available, most make due with what's available now, making the restorations and remasters much more niche, and much less profitable.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

There's not an anti-capitalist message that exists that can't be subverted and exploited by capitalism.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...6ab43d1f8b.png

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

I haven't had the chance to watch Babylon 5 on HBOMax yet, but that's kind of disappointing. The DVDs look terrible, switching between 16:9 film and then zoomed 4:3 videotape quality. Noticeable on a small screen, but YIKES on a giant screen.

That's the main reason I said I'd be okay with 720p transfers of DS9 and VOY, as I'd rather have consistent video quality than going back and forth between crystal clear HD and lower quality upscaled 480p material.

I'm still skeptical that Paramount ever intended to remaster DS9 or VOY. Despite what claim about the sales of TNG, I don't think it was ever in the cards.

DS9 has always used a fair amount of CGI; been a while since I've watched it, but I think Odo generally morphed about once per episode. I'm guessing that having to morph Rene into goo and whatever thing he's changing into set against a live action background would be more intensive than rendering space scenes. I think they eventually switched from models to full CGI for the ships during the course of the series, and VOY was, I think, always CGI.

Paramount is one of the few studios that still faithfully releases their streaming content onto disc for retail sales (as long as it's Trek related, anyway), so they'd probably do the same for DS9 and VOY. I don't think we'll see discs released of D+'s Star Wars or MCU content.

I think the best hope for Paramount to do something with DS9 and VOY, even if it's a partial restoration, is to have a library of all Trek material in decent quality on their streaming services. Though they'd probably release to disc as well, as that's currently in the studio's character to do. At least for now. We'll have to wait and see if they're still bothering to release new Paramount+ Trek series to disc in five years.

I don't think they need to worry about selling to other streamers; all of the Trek series should fall under the Paramount+ umbrella, and they're now moving international with their service, so it should all eventually be in-house.

And, frankly, the thought of releasing these old series onto 4K UHD discs seems like overkill. There's probably not that much improvement to be made in the image quality of TOS-TNG-DS9-VOY, and there probably aren't enough people out there with 4K players who would want to buy these series. These shows were made for people to watch on 19" screens with analog broadcast/analog cable. I'm still surprised TOS looks as good as it does in 1080p even though you can tell sets are painted plywood if you look closely.

It's generally understood that the lack of a decent quality release of the original cuts comes down to George's wishes. Aside from the poor quality LD transfers released as bonus discs for the single-film DVD releases, Lucas has refused to release the original Original Trilogy onto DVD or blu-ray. He could have included the original versions on the 2011 blu-ray Saga Collection via branching like his buddy Spielberg did with CE3K or Ridley Scott did with Blade Runner and folks would have eaten them up.

I have 720p despecialized versions of Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi, along with downloaded 480p Youtube versions of From Star Wars to Jedi, The Holiday Special, and the Leonard Maltin interviews on a handy little USB flash drive.

The 720p for the OT looks decent enough, and also helps to mask the stuff Harmy had to take from lower quality sources to replace the SE content. I notice occasional drops in video quality every now and then, but it's something I really have to look for, which is why I said I could live with 720p DS9 and VOY if that was the only way it was feasible.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Speaking of Canto Bight… I saw a comment recently that wondered how TLJ would have landed differently if the weapons manufacturers at the casino had been the main plot of the story instead of a bizarre side quest. Like if both Kylo Ren and General Organa had been trying to sway them to one side or the other and we would have gotten to see the difference in how mother and son tried to get things done and how they wanted the people of the galaxy to be treated or what moral compromises they would have made to get the weapons for their respective militaries.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

I finally saw that Boba Fett cartoon from the Holiday Special. Aside from Han Solo looking like a horse, it was actually not bad. I might watch that Droids cartoon for the hell of it.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

I'm looking forward to a lot of new Star Wars in the next year!

December 29, 2021
The Book of Boba Fett (live-action series)

January 18, 2022
The High Republic: The Fallen Star (adult novel)

February 1, 2022
The High Republic: Midnight Horizon (young adult novel)

February 15, 2022
The Art of Star Wars: The Mandalorian (season 2)

May 4, 2022
Star Wars Day

May 10, 2022
Brotherhood (novel)

May 25, 2022
Star Wars 45th Anniversary

May 26-29, 2022
Star Wars Celebration

Spring 2022
LEGO Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga (video game)

June 7, 2022
Stories of Jedi and Sith (short story anthology)

June 28, 2022
Shadow of the Sith (novel)

July 26, 2022
Padawan (novel)

2022
Andor (live-action series)
Obi-Wan Kenobi (live-action series)
The Bad Batch season 2 (animated series)
The Mandalorian season 3 (live-action series)

TBA
Ahsoka (live-action series)
The Acolyte (live-action series)

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

+ Bad Batch Season Two is expected this year

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Thanks! I forgot about that one!

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Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

I guess if Lindelof does Star Wars then the question of can Disney top the shittyness of The Last Jedi the answer is yes.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Expect the time travel thing to be real, I guess. If this is supposed to be great news, it doesn't feel like it to me.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Another Trilogy that won't be happening...moving on.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Might not be a trilogy, we see from Rogue One that there can be standalone stories that still fit into the larger saga.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Or it could be like Solo where it's initially just one film, but it leaves the door open for sequels.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

If the Lindelof who created HBO's WATCHMEN shows up, I might be interested.

Otherwise, he gets the old El Paso. He's been responsible for so many terribly unfulfilling projects, it hardly abides the telling.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

Watchmen, The Leftovers, and much of Lost are really great television. But Lindelof's movie projects have ranged from mediocre to awful.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

If die hard fans want someone to retcon the sequel trilogy, Lindelof is probably the right guy for the job.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

A retcon isn’t going to happen. The most we can hope for is for something that gives it extra depth, like how the Clone Wars helped with Anakin’s characterization.

Re: The General Star Wars Discussion Thread
 

The Lindelof announcement makes me think they'll still blindly hiring "name"/"hot"/"up-and-coming" directors first and finding something for them to do second, which seems to be one of the ongoing problems with Lucasfilm's handling of Star Wars.