I'm only interested if Kamen Rider's mother's name is Martha Rider.

What the hell is a Kamen Rider.

I have no idea either.

Ok. But how? Batman's nightmare pretty much just stands alone as being a thing solely concentrated to him. Luthor was acting "weird" the whole movie. And that communion deleted scene was at the end before he was tossed in Jail. We don't have any timeline to where they're connection to Darkseid starts. And as far as we know, Bruce has no connection to anything Apokolips. And Luthor has that scene w/ Steppenwolf that was deleted. And that was again... at the end.

Is it this?



US Pop culture is huge cuz it's the fucking US.

I've never been impressed by Kamen Rider. Though I understand its placement in the Japanese pop culture. I do like SOME of the character designs for KR though. I can't remember which ones but some were actually cool for the main hero.

Also it's the fucking Batman and Superman. Huge iconic visual personalities. Bad movie or not. That movie sticks its dick in Kamen Rider's asshole for dominance just as an existence.

Again, I can't expect everyone to simply intuit this, but this was my immediate take on it, based on 50 years of reading Superman, Batman, Justice League, etc... It is definitely a personal theory.

Batman's nightmare is not a nightmare, it is a vision implanted by Darkseid. There is no way Batman could know about the Omega symbol, nor about the parademons, to place them into a solely personal, standalone nightmare. And Batman does not possess any precognitive powers. Therefore, the vision was implanted by someone. The most logical conclusion is Darkseid (or Steppenwolf, acting on Darkseid's behalf).

The timeline would have been concurrent with the battle with Zod, the first appearance of Superman. That would have been when Darkseid became aware of Superman's presence on Earth, and started taking steps to eliminate him. The two pronged plan of attack would involve implanting visions of an apocalyptic future, ruled by a god-like Superman, into Batman's head, while providing Luthor with motivation and guidance in crafting Superman's downfall. I believe that everything in the movie, up to the "Save Martha" moment that broke Batman's obsession, was crafted by Luthor and occurred exactly as he intended, including Batman's theft of the Kryptonite. Luthor planted the seeds so that Batman would know about the K, trusting that Batman would steal it and use it in the battle he was setting up.

Darkseid pulling the strings makes a lot of sense, but if the writers were putting together this film with that in mind it's basically the cause of all the major issues I have with the movie. Rather the each of the characters have their own motivations and agendas, having an unseen character being responsible for the major conflict in such a disjointed way via dream sequences and Luthor speeches is a terrible way to progress the plot in this movie.

Especially when there really isn't any payoff to all of that work to tie everything together other then Batman saying they need to team up at the end... just because he has a feeling. For all the bits they tried to add as a build up to Justice League, it's sad how little momentum it felt like there was towards the world needing it to happen. Plus, I think it also diminishes Luthor's power and role in the movie who should be able to stand on his own intellectually.

Reading comics and understanding the medium should mean fuck all. I've read the comics too. The difference is in what happens in one medium doesn't work in another all the time. Mostly cuz the times of the stories when they're released. As fumanstan said... no payoff. Nothing to sell the action of the future.

Also... he gets that vision and then Barry pops up coincidentally? That's shit writing. It's a great scene but shit context.

Batman's hardon for Supes is before the vision anyway. You take out your vision... it still doesn't really change Batman's actions throughout the film. You put in the communion and it adds to why Lex got a bit weirder after the fighting.

Again... no payoff as it is. It could work... w/ better writing but as it is. It's too much legwork to visually be sold. Even worse if you need another movie years later to do it for you.

This too. So Luthor's a nobody essentially?

It's just shit writing.

This is important.

When you use the comic books as essentially a source for your storyboard you may be able to get lucky and have it work (Sin City) but more than likely it won't (Sin City 2 and Watchmen).

You can change the story if you need to. I wasn't bothered by the changing of the story in Watchmen and thought it made sense.

But if you change the emotions someone has while spending time with that character, that's when you start running into trouble.

If they're pulling that Darkseid is implanting shit into Bats or eve Lex. The shit writing for it doesn't help. That shit works in comics cuz you're constantly getting the payoff the next month (typically) we don't get that w/ movies. We get years. It's already failed before it even hit the page.

Doesn't work like that.

As it is.. the dream has no context. Then Barry coming up and that's part of the dream too? And then he wakes up again? Wha? What really happens and what doesn't? No. There's no context for anything. It's a great dream but it's shit context. Years later of a payoff or not. It's too big to not handle in a film.

No, that's not it, but the trailer for the movie I saw is on the same page--Kamen Rider Ichigo 2016. The coolest thing about it is that it brings back the original Kamen Rider, Hiroshi Fujioka, who first played the role in, like, 1971. And he still kicks ass at 69. He once played a samurai revived from ice in an American film, Ghost Warrior.

Im sorry but that bit right there sounds sexy as fuuuuu

Snake, I'm not disagreeing with you. However, in my mind, the "dream" (actually a vision) has perfect context. Darkseid (or an agent) is implanting these visions in Batman's head. They have been recurring since the fight against Zod, we are simply spared most of them. The JL is sending the Flash back with a message, and take advantage of Batman's susceptible condition (due to the vision already in progress) to send it to that moment.

Shit context (within this movie), agreed. Insufficient payoff, agreed. I believe the payoff will come in JL1 or JL2, when Flash actually sends his message back, and all is explained. Not good enough for current audiences, who are left clueless. But it is not a dream. A dream would be fabricated from Batman's fears and concerns. This vision is fabricating new fears, or feeding smaller fears. There is simply no way Batman "dreams" of these things without an external contributor.

that dream and consequent Flash apparition felt so out place, even casual comic book readers like myself had to turn to the side and say "what the fuck is going on"

Trust me, even long term, devoted comic book readers like myself had the same initial reaction. I'm not defending the presentation of the story I believe was being told, merely trying to make sense of it. I don't think I'm making any huge leaps, and, for example, would never attempt to take on the "Save Martha" moment, I completely agree that it should've been handled much differently. I'm just saying that I can see a cohesive story in there, somewhere.

Shoveler, love that theory about the "vision." It makes fucking sense when you think about it. At least that part does, but the Flash sequence would not be from Darkseid, so I guess the superfriends saw that Darkseid sent Batman a vision and they countered with their own?

Was I imagining it or was there a Wilhelm Scream during the Batmobile chase scene?

I believe there was one.

I heard it too.

Jesus. This is ambitious as fuck with the ideas it wants to do but the script isn't up to par w/ the ambitiousness and well... Snyder.

Saw this yesterday along with three 12 year old boys to see it for my son's birthday.

I gave it a 2.5 out of 5. They were actually harsher and two gave it a 2 and one a 1.5. After the movie they were more excited to talk about the Captain America: Civil War trailer that ran before BVS than BVS itself. All of us were disappointed with the pace.

Not a whole lot I can add that hasn't already been said. I was just really disappointed they shoehorned Doomsday/Death Of Superman storyline into this. I kept away from reviews and almost all info so I went into the movie fresh and not knowing what was going to happen. It felt like the disappointment I felt when they crammed Venom, one of Spider-man's best villains, haphazardly into Spider-man 3. It just felt like a waste of a good villain/story that could have been epic.

I felt nothing when Superman died. Nothing. And that made me sad.

I get a lump in my throat when Superman gives his anguished scream when Lois dies in the first movie. I feel horrible for Clark's decision to give up his powers in Superman II and he gets his ass handed to him and sees his blood for the first time. Hell, I almost shed tears in Superman Returns when he is feared dead and all the people gather outside his hospital room waiting to see what will happen to him.

But this...I felt nothing. Granted I knew what was coming when Doomsday was announced by Lex Luthor. But I still should have felt some kind of emotional attachment to Superman sacrificing himself, right?

I was hoping they would maybe kill Lois when she was pushed off the building (due to Superman couldn't get there in time). Give him some reason to show a little emotion and engage the viewer to empathize with him.

Just lazy writing all the way around. The JLA preview in the middle of the movie. The "Martha" scene. The throwing of the spear away to be retrieved 5 minutes later (I kept expecting Aquaman to show up with it). The saving of Lois twice for no good reason (other than to further the story). The dream sequences. Just on and on.

And Alexander Luthor was fucking horrible. His manner of speaking comes across as what a 7 year old kid may imagine a psychotic person sounds and acts like. Sorry, but a truly scary psychotic person acts normal and then does unspeakable horror. Think the dude from "No Country For Old Men." Now that is scary psychotic. And he didn't act and talk like a teenager on speed and cupcakes.

The Flash...what the fuck?

I did like Wonder Woman. She fought like a god and acted like one. I look forward to her solo movie though I hope they have a decent script.

The people claiming Ben Affleck's Batman is the best ever confuse me. He was okay. Not bad and not great. I think he is receiving a lot of accolades simply because he was better than most of the crap in this movie. Diamond in the turd pile.

Anyway, not much new to share as seen above. Most has already been said. I do have a question though. After the "Martha" scene, how did Batman seem to pinpoint her location in seconds where Superman had no clue? I remember Batman saying something to Alfred but wasn't sure what he said or how he found her so quickly.

i realized he was having a vision of some sort, but i had zero clue who it was. i even turned to my buddy and asked him wtf it was.

He used the bad guy's cell phone that he cloned earlier in the movie.

Okay, thanks. Any idea how he knew that was the guy who was holding her?

He didn't know it was him per se until he broke through the door and saw him pointing a flamethrower to Martha.

I still enjoy the film and it is nice to finally have a good Batman movie after waiting so long since the Burton films.