I'm not arguing SM or BM lore - I'm just telling you what an uninvolved moviegoer thought about it.

I don't give a shit about the lore. I'm just talking about this movie on its own.

Throwing you into the sequence and then getting you out... it's pretty obvious none of that happened cuz well... it just can't cuz it is using pretty standard cues in presenting that that isn't really going on. Also.. we've a whole movie going on its own afterwards. It's really not confusing in understanding that it isn't really happening. Even w/ that.. talking about Batman in the sequence. The world's gone to hell... its irrelevant whether or not he kills in that sequence cuz its a desperate environment where survival seems to take a higher importance than a code to live by after where it is in that sequence.

I thought this film was mostly weak. Batman and Superman were fine, but Lex Luthor was awful in every way.

And Wonder Woman was boring as fuck. I guess Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson is my reference point for female superheroes, and it is night and day when comparing her with Wonder Woman.

I also hated the big LOTR troll-looking energy monster at the end.

I think I'll pass on this universe and stick with the Marvel and X-Men franchises.

And that's why there was no "communion" (deleted) scene in the finished film, because people like you, the general moviegoing audience, would not have gotten it. You can barely keep track of something this pedestrian let alone something with added depth. I say that as a term of endearment by the way.

Bahahahahha. so now it's Joe sixpack that causes the movies to be dumbed down in the sense of a deleted scene that would have made a cluster fuck of a mess a cluster fuck of a bigger mess. But it's not J6P's fault like yourself that causes a character to be completely re-worked because the average consumer doesn't have the comprehension to think of a flying alien who fights for truth, justice and the American way is anything but a boring boy scout?

Okay, Blu. you keep telling yourself that.

Zach Snyder and Josh Trank, both victims in their own way of the idiocy of the unwashed masses.

We're still not really sure on Trank. I'm not saying it's all his fault but at the same time that shit looks like it went beyond him as well.

We know where Snyder stands in his place w/ WB mostly. There's not much surprise there.

Finally decided to venture into here. Read the last half dozen pages or so. I get all the complaints, some more valid and constructive than others, but I enjoyed this a great deal, warts and all.

What I loved:
- Affleck was great as both Wayne and Bats
- liked the Batmobile, Batwing, cave, etc.
- Wonder Woman was ultimate the highlight, and her smirk during the Doomsday battle spoke more about her character than most of what we got for Supes in MoS
- Wonder Woman's theme was off the charts awesome.
- the film's ambition was crazy. It really should have been two films
- Batman's warehouse fight to save Martha was, hands down the coolest Batman fight on film yet.
- The Man of Steel climax from Bruce's perspective
- I liked that heavier topics (aka the political side) were broached. It's not something that's neat and tidy or ever handled in superhero flicks.
- Jeremy Irons was brilliant
- Eisenberg. I may be the only person but fuck it, so be it. I'm so sick of the Lex of every other movie (and even Smallville), I was open to anything new. Young, brash, quirky and still hellbent on ruling anything and everything. I didn't want to see Lex in another movie but after Eisenberg, strangely, I want more.
- after a very forgettable MoS soundtrack, BvS was much better
- Momoa as Aquaman looks good to me
- there were at least 3-5 mentions of 'this area is uninhabited,' 'deserted island,' or 'the work force has gone home for the day' to satiate all the complaints about MoS which, more than likely unintentionally, resulted in the plot of BvS.

Kinda torn on:
- yet another interpretation of the Wayne murders. I get it, it's done so we can have the callback during the BvS fight. Granted, it's probably necessary for younger viewers who haven't seen a single Batman film yet (like my girls). I will say it was shot beautifully and probably handled better here than previously.

- Could have done without the Lex head shave. I'll file this into my X-men: First Class closing minutes complaints. It works better in context than First Class, but still unnecessary. Plus it's just a shave, he can grow it back.

- "Save Martha" - I liked what the scene implies, that Clark/Supes appealed to the kid in Wayne and the demons that are haunting him, it just could have been handled a bit differently. I knew when it happened that this would be what the 'net' would complain about. Clark is an investigative reporter so to me, after meeting Bruce (and hearing Alfred) he pieced together his identity pretty quick and figured it all out. A brief scene showing/telling us this would have made the impact make more sense.

Wasn't a fan of:
- Metropolis and Gotham being neighbors, but I guess if you can have the entire Avengers team, Spider-man and Daredevil all essentially working out of the same city and still have a crime problem(suspension of disbelief on that one), then I guess this is pretty minor.

- the flick was kind of all over the place with flashbacks, visions, dream sequences, visions within visions, things going on in India, Africa, some random frozen mountaintop that didn't appear to near the Fortress of Solitude. Tighten that shit up, man.

- Another two hours of tearing down Superman. This film could have benefitted from Mos2 happening first, but man I don't know if I can handle anymore tearing apart of Superman. Hopefully this all leads to his resurrection into the Superman we all love in Justice League. It seems like that's what's implied, but who knows with Snyder's hard on for belittling him.

- Almost 90 minutes of Wayne vs Kent with little Batman or Superman. It's Spielberg's 'get to the island/dinos sooner' problem with Jurassic Park he always talks about.

- "World's Greatest Detective" doesn't see Clark tailing him 10 steps behind at Lex's place. Similarly, Diana hangs around to give Bruce a 'look' after stealing his shit? She could have been long gone.

- a scruffy long haired Barry Allen. Yes I love Gustin, sue me. Prior to the Flash show I was all for keeping the TV and film worlds separate. Things change. This Snyderverse needs a light hearted Barry Allen to offset a little of the dour and serious tone.

- too much Cyborg already. We get quick glances of Aquaman and Flash but almost a full scene of Cyborg? Does anyone care about this character? Stop trying to make him a thing DC.

I do find it intensely ironic(?) Funny(?) That people lost their shit over Gadot's casting but has seemingly been the highlight of the film for many. "Hire that UFC chick that can't act" they said.

This went unanswered a few pages back so my take:
Lex's ultimate goal was getting the people to turn on Superman. In other words, Batman was merely a means to an end. Some were turning on Superman already but having him kill such a vaunted figure would push the majority into his way of thinking.

Didn't think that was a big leap, because even some of the fans didn't know who the redesigned character in that deleted scene was. Hell, I didn't know until I googled that shit. You seem to give the J6P's out there the benefit of the doubt. You should give them a pop quiz and see how many can name any of the New Gods. Report back with your progress.

Actually, I already know that the new gods are shit that would not be on the public's mind. Especially since DC likes to reinvent themselves every few years and then it takes a while before they even dare introduce the new gods, if ever.

Meaning, and this is the real big fucking problem that Snyder put himself in the mess of - perhaps he SHOULDN'T have introduced too many things all at once.

This is how you get a Green Lantern film that essentially could have been spread out to a decent three part series with all those villains and story lines they tried to go for. But nah, WB/DC figures they gotta cram as much shit as possible in to these films for some unknown goddamn reason.

There was so many elements in this film that weren't needed already that suggesting that it's J6P's failure to grasp another thing that would have been poorly, if not even bothered to be explained being included is just silly.

Here's what I don't get about WB/DC. They can't make up their mind if they want to boil everything down to a simple concept for the average movie goer, and when that happens, you get stuff like Green Lantern and Catwoman and various other DC flops. But then they want to go all in and get very DC Dictionary as well to include stuff that not even hardcore fans would really be able to fully grasp.

It's not being suggested - it's fact. I remember when Avatar came out and the average person loved it but the fucking unwashed masses dogged it out, because it wasn't nerdy enough. Then Cameron came out and said: he made it for mass consumption - if he had put every fucking thing into the film no one would have gotten it and it would have been inaccessible to the average person. It does not mean it's lazy filmmaking.

The same with this theatrical cut of BvS. When the Ultimate Edition is released in July then it should definitely be seen as a new film altogether and at that time we can see what the added footage does to the overall product. In the end it's all about an economically viable product and the studio/Snyder thought that of this version of the film.

unwashed masses? Oh Blu, you so cray cray.

Also, you're really counting these "Ultimate edition" eggs way before they're hatched. Aren't you? I don't know how many times the promise of 20-30 minutes of cut footage would be the thing to save a film and it ended up that no matter how you tried to super glue it together, the movie still was a fucking mess.

Let's just say I'm less optimistic than you are than any of the deleted scenes can fix the problems that this film has. Since my problem is that the main thing that should have been cut from the film was Snyder himself.

I dunno. Shit. I would have said Goyer.

Hans Zimmer has announced he will never score another superhero movie ever again.

They did attempt to throw too many stories into one movie, which is a byproduct of how WB writes their blockbusters. The studio commissions several different scripts and then a committe picks-and-chooses the best elements they like, combining them into one movie. There was really enough story in BvS for three different movies. I have a hunch we got elements of the original idea for Man of Steel 2, Nolan's follow-up to his Dark Knight Trilogy and the Justice League thrown together.

I'll just leave this here to show how Superman should act..
http://imgur.com/gallery/TUbd2

Damn. That was good. But that's also a different situation. He's not just one way even in definition or form. But I get what you're going for.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. This Supes just has no real soul. As a concept, this Superman has something that should be great for the modern. He's a man, he's modern, etc. There's a great character w/ the ingredients we have of him here but Goyer and Snyder don't know how to give him emotional subtlety. It's damn near all on the surface.

I agree. It would be more than just adding cut footage. The whole film would have to go through a re-edit. Things added, things removed. The movie is making money so I dunno if the studio would want to go through all that.

That's what I feel is where an all around good movie can become to a degree.

From what we have in the TC though.. there are things inherent that you can't fix by the edit. Lex Luthor is one of them. And don't give me me that Eisenberg bullshit. He's a good actor. He just didn't have good direction in his characterization. No clue why Snyder or Goyer even thought that kind of Lex was what we need today.

I have to be honest I thought that strip was kinda terrible. Preacy and self righteous and unnuanced.

So, essentially, a perfect Internet post.

That's great, what is that from?


@Corvin I agree about Cyborg. Dc has been jamming him into so much the last decade or so.

Just give us the real JL or at least one that doesn't have Cyborg in it.

I realize wish those rumors early on about it being split into two films had been true.

I hope that since we got "Lex Jr" now we can have the real Lex in subsequent films

I get the feeling we are going to see a super-powered Lex aided by tech from Darkseid.