It's kind of amusing that although much of the discussion here looks on the surface as though it's about Superman Returns, it's really just people taking pot shots at each other's straw men and putting words into each others mouths.

The one thing I will say about this movie is that Singer really had his hands tied thematically. He had to take a franchise whose last movie was decades ago, reintroduce the Superman character to the audience (he even cheated on this by making this a movie a sequel to Superman II), reintroduce the relationships and also squish in some plot. I really don't think he could have done anything much differently. I would have loved to have seen someone like Darkseid in the movie, but Superman II, III and IV already had the "big" nemesis fights. So Singer was relegated to doing something a little more "local" as it were.

So we end up with a lot of "talking" scenes, with a lack of action scenes. Now Singer did do a very good job with that, but I know for a lot of people that wasn't what they were expecting.

Welcome to the internet...

Sure ok, but Superman Returns was still a good movie.

I don't recall saying anything about the movie either way, nor will I because I don't see a discussion going anywhere for either side.

I guess I put words in your mouth.

Finally caught this today. Had some free time and went to see an afternoon matinee. I watched Superman and Superman II last week to prepare for this and to make sure I didn't miss any continuity items. It had been a while since I had seen the first two, and I have to say I never realized how much I liked the character of Superman.

I thought that Superman Returns was a good movie with a few flaws. First of all, I'm not sure I like the direction Singer may be taking the franchise with the kid. I also don't really know how that works out for Richard White not to start asking questions about the kid and the father. If Supes had been gone five years, she would have to be pregnant before he left and then meet Richard while pregnant and I guess just tell him that the baby was born early. I don't know. Someone correct me if I missed something.

I think the movie could have ended about 10 minutes earlier. I was hoping for the credits to hit as the camera was pulling away from Kitty and Lex abandoned on the island. That would have been a helluva cliffhanger.

Having just watched the first two, I think Routh nailed the role of Clark/Superman. The similarities in his voice to that of Christopher Reeve was just eerie. I enjoyed the exposition early in the film as well as the parallel of his return to to his first arrival. I can't wait to pick this up on DVD along with the original two, and I'm eager to see the direction that this franchise will go in.

Finally, will a movie audience of casual fans be prepared for Superman vs. a villain who is not Lex Luthor?

One last thing, I also liked how Lois asked, "How many F's are in catastrophic?"...nice continuity with the earlier films.

I liked that too. I had one of those,"only one who got that joke" moments in the theater.

Along with "Addis Ababa, 1978"

Actually, I caught that on the 2nd viewing after seeing Superman I on cable a day or two previous. I laughed and the person sitting next to me thought I was laughing at how much info was on the Card and the quick shot. He said something to me like, "yeah right, like anyone could read all that" then he laughed. I just laughed back like I cared what he had to say.

Kal Penn, Brandon Routh rap. Trust me, this is hilarious.

That was pretty funny

From Newsarama....and Comic Con:

Singer goes Wrath of Khan on Superman II. I love it.

I haven't read this thread all the way though, so please excuse me if some of this has already been mentioned...

I just saw this movie tonight and I need to vent. This was the first time in a long, long time that I had to strain to keep myself from walking out of a movie. It is not that I think this was bad, I have seen far worse movies, but I was actually angry and dissappointed. Maybe my expectations were too high, although I had some luke warm expectations going in, or so I thought. Maybe I just wanted it to be good, too much.

What I liked, good acting, great casting, superb special effects, in fact the first two thirds of the movie I thought was better than average. I was even willing to accept the direction that Singer is going with this film, based on the fact that Supes had a kid. I don't really like that idea too much, but I can live with it.

What I couldn't live with was the sloppy, lazy writing that ruined the last third of this movie for me. There are almost too many things to list, so I will go over my biggest beefs.

First and foremost, what I loved about the original movies was the love triangle dynamic that was set up between Supes, Lois, and his Identity as Superman. I.e., choose the girl vs choose the powers. None of that dynamic was in here, instead we get Richard...ugh.

Then we have the big battle sequence, where Supes is on an island and since said island was made of kryptonite, Luthor was able to lay a beat down on him. If this isalnd takes away his powers, how was he able to fly and land on it in the first place? More importantly, how can a splinter sized piece of kryptonite almost kill him, yet he is able to lift a city-sized piece of kryptonite all of the way into outerspace? Ugh.

What was Luthor's grand plan? Create an island and rule the world? What is stopping someone else form just taking over his island? How was he going to rule the world if he really didn't understand how the crystals worked? And why didn't Supes grab one of them crystals on his way out (to save for the inevitable sequal)?

Then we have this whole hospital scene, and the scene just prior to that where he is "jesus" floating down to earth. I kept thinking of the same scene in Spiderman 2 where he is in the "jesus" position on the train and has to be helped by everyday people. Now we have that in Superman too?

So, he is in a hospital, with pieces of kryptonite in him, and he just lies there and recovers like a normal human being (except the needles and paddles don't work on him, even though he is supposed to have kryptonite in him still). Then Lois kisses him to make him all better? Come on...can't we do better than this? And how the heck did Luther end up on what looked to be a tropical island?

Ok, sorry to ramble on so much,this film just really pissed me off for a lot of reasons. Maybe some people can somehow explain some of this lazy writing to me with knowledge that I don't have (since I am just your every day Superman moviegoer, not truly versed in his history).

You need to see it again. You should also read through this thread because alot of your points have been covered, and those nitpicks go away upon successive viewings. Initial expectations plays a huge role in the level of disappointment, but once you get through the first viewing, the next viewings can be viewed with a much more open mind.

Once the last piece of kryptonite is taken out of him, then his powers return. He didn't have anymore pieces left in him once his skin became tough enough to ward off syringes.

Lois kissing him didn't make it all better, he was on the road to recovery. The cliche way to do that scene is to have him wake up after Lois kissed him, but that's not how it went.

These "Jesus" moments were some of my favorite parts in both movies. It shows their vulnerability and brings some emotion to the table.

Yeah I liked it in Spiderman 2, but I think at that point in this movie, I was so far removed from the viewing experience by the lazy writing that it just pissed me off even more when it reminded me of Spidey.

I will probably need a few days to collect my thoughts (and simmer down ) to get a better idea of how I view this movie. But my initial reaction was very strong, so much so that I even posted about not liking it (something I am not sure I have even done before). I just don't know if I can take sitting through that again. I feel like I need to run out and get Supe I to cleanse myself....

I just was so amazed that they could not come up with a better "take over the world plot" for Luthor. I mean, creating a big hunk of crappy looking rock in the ocean...really? Who the hell is going to want to live there? How was he going to create infrastructue? How was he going to protect it? What the hell was he going to have for dinner that night?

But by far the biggest problems for me were the"new love triangle" and the Kryptonite is only bad for Supes "sometimes" plot lines.

I mean, how in the heck can he throw a city sized piece of kryptonite into space when a sliver of the stuff almost kills him? How can he even lift it at all when ten minutes before a feeble looking Luthor was beating his ass up and down? Something this inconsistent just really ticks me off. I don't need a movie to believable, it is Superman afterall, just internally consistent.

If you watch he flies up very close to the sun and supercharges himself before he goes to lift the continent. I'm guessing the kryptonite takes time before it effects Superman. He was charged up with solar energy and lifted it before the Krptonite completely overtook him.

Luthor was whooping his ass earlier because Superman had been walking on the continent for a long time, long enough for the krptonite to completely sap him. If he had just landed on the continent, Superman would still have enough of his powers to beat them.

Ok, I remember him recharging, since I am not a huge follower of the Superman mythos I assummed the sun was doing him some good. I really didn't know that the sun "charges" him, but I did pick up on it. But enough to lift a city made of kryptonite? Really? I guess any of this can be explained away, but I just am not buying it.

Kryptonite is bad for Superman, since when does it take time to effect him? since hwen can the sun protect him against this? What about the shard stuck in his side? It just seemed too inconsistent. There had to be a better way to write this.

When I first saw the land mass made of kryptonite idea, I thought to myself, "hmmm...a little overkill here, but it will be inetersting to see how Supes gets out of this one". Then they solve it by making him solar powered and somehow immune to what should be the enormous effects of kryptonite?

Maybe some of this stuff is best understood in the context of the Superman mythos, because I sure felt like I was missing something here. I just really thought it seemed like a lazy way of ending what was a terrible "evil plan" to begin with. Then it went directly into so much schmaltz that I was just fuming and could not reconnect with the movie at all...

I liked the faux-Ligeti touch to the score in that space scene far more than the christ image.

It seemed to affect him pretty quickly in the original movies though, didn't it?

I dunno. I went to see it a second time today since I had a free pass (came in Superman Animated Series DVD). It was even worse the second time. The first time I was into the story just enough to overlook some of the stupidity...but this time I was just overwhelmed with how dumb this movie was...plus I was bored to tears, which didn't help.

I wouldn't even consider buying it on DVD were it not for the kick ass plane rescue. At this point I'd rank it just below The Hulk in modern superhero flicks...and that is NOT a compliment.

Blech.

I never saw the original movies- which probably has a lot to do with me enjoying "Superman returns". Even so, I feel Singer should have the freedom to make his own little changes to the series.


And nope, I have no interest in seeing the original movies because it will interferre with how I perceive these new sequels, which I am quite satisfied with at the moment.

I think that people should stop trying to perceive the movie as a continuation of the originals and see it as a retelling of the character, like "Batman Begins" was.

Except it's been said that it is somewhat of a continuation, with many of the events based off of what happened in the first two movies.