Yes it was one of the biggest releases, which makes it all the more pathetic they couldn't get it right.

It's not the customer's problem how many were shipped out. The Iron Man Blu-ray was pulled back at the last minute for example and still made street date. Why couldn't Uni do that? Because they do not care about quality, and it shows.

And you make it sound like they're doing us a favor by keeping the replacement plan going. Um, as long as they leave their defective product out there, they are obligated to keep it going.

Well, I believe it was the fans who noticed Back to the Future Part II and III were misframed, which obviously did not happen until the product was already in people's hands.

I don't really see the notable difference for the already-purchased consumer between a recall and a replacement program. If you already bought it and there is a recall, you send the item back to the studio. The replacement program is the exact same thing.

I mean, I see what you're getting at -- Universal left some amount of inferior product on shelves. This is true. But again, since this issue wasn't discovered until the DVD was already out, it seems like the effectiveness of a recall is extremely limited, since the copies are already in the consumer's hands. Some stores are already sold out of it. I seem to recall there being an availability gap where Universal was making the new discs. So, while there was probably a good amount of stock already at stores of misframed copies, which probably did not go back, I don't think Universal just continued to ship the bad stuff. Replacing the copies that were already bought and holding off outgoing orders for a bit while they create new discs is 97% of what would be accomplished by a recall.

The Green Zone looks like Bourne 4 to me.

Do you work for Universal or something? I really don't understand how you can constantly defend their poor business practices in the DVD/Blu-Ray market, especially when its everyone on this forum who's catching the bad end of the deal. Its really puzzling...

I know that you're not directing this question at me, but... No, I don't work for Universal, but I've had zero trouble with any of their DVD-18s in my collection.

TLK

To be fair, you almost never see any studio actually recall a title unless there is a legal problem preventing distribution.

Although, they should have gotten the fixed copies of BTTF out on shelves sooner. I suspect they continued shipping the misframed copies for some time though, because it seemed like it was a couple of years until you could get them in stores.

It was noticed by fans, but before release. Please feel free to look in the forum archives here, at HTF or probably AVS too. It was found and known about 1-2 weeks before release. Trust me I remember, because BTTF was my most anticipated release from the year. And Uni f'ed up, like they manage to do to many of their big releases.

They didn't leave some of it - they left all of it. That's why it took years for corrected copies to appear at retail. They either most certainly did keep shipping the misframed copies, or so many of them had shipped initially the glut lasted years. I'm sure others remember too.

So why recall the Bourne Ultimatum BD now and replace it before release when the defect was likely discovered in the same timeframe as BTTF (which again, was before the domestic release date)? Because they don't want to risk this early of a black eye on their precious combo format. Otherwise I'm sure they'd have been content to just leave all the defective copies out for the standard "make the consumer jump through hoops" replacement program they've liked using so much in the past.

Not to derail the thread, but the E.T. Collectors Edition DVD set was mentioned earlier as one of the releases that Universal screwed up on.

I still have an unopened copy of that set, but am curious: What was the screw-up with that release?

The 1982 cut did not have the DTS track on it as I recall. The regular 2-disc edition did have the proper audio tracks on the 1982 cut. I'm not even sure why there were different discs in that case.

Misframing and a disc not working are two different things. 99% of people who bought BTTF didn't know about the misframe so it wasn't a big deal. If it's true the Ult. BD didn't play, it's a pretty big recall.

That doesn't make it any more acceptable though, y'know? If anything it further reinforces Uni's pattern of not really caring unless they're forced to.

Ah, ok. Thanks. Not as major a screw-up as I imagined, but a screw-up nonetheless.

I think what made it worse at the time was it first came out that you could only get the 1982 version of the film in the box set. So a lot of people pre-ordered that one. Then pretty close to release it became apparent the standard 2-disc release would also have the 1982 cut, and most people who ordered the boxset would have been fine just getting the standard release (like me). So it was kind of like a double-kick to the nuts - spend more based on initial info from Uni, then wind up with a version that isn't even as good as the cheaper version.

Yeah, that would piss me off too. I remember when the BTTF set was released, I only found out about the framing issues after opening my set. Luckily, I was able to return it to the store I bought it from (after explaining the problem).

I didn't want to go through the replacement hassle so I waited a looong time until the corrected set appeared on store shelves. I bought it for $40+ only to see the price drop to around $20 a month or two later. So I too have been kicked in the nuts.

Just finished watching all 3 of the new flippers and did not have one playback issue.

Don't you think it spreads worse word-of-mouth that a released product is defective rather than doing a silent recall before the title hits shelves?I guess I wouldn't know. I got mine for Christmas. Watched all the movies, watched the features, and sent the discs in. Had a replacement in two weeks. That was it.But this is my point. I am not catching the bad end of the deal. I had a swiftly-dealt-with replacement, no defects from several discs many reported problems with, and am waiting to see if defect complaints go up on the Bourne discs before buying any. There has been no "bad end" for me. Until something goes wrong for me, I have nothing to complain about. I admit -- Back to the Future IS the only disc I've ever bought from any studio that had to be sent back to them, so I guess that makes Universal's track record the worst -- but the experience wasn't irritating (for me anyway).The 2-disc edition contains a 24-minute featurette called "The Making of E.T." on Disc 2. The 4-disc Ultimate Edition contains a 37-minute featurette called "A Look Back" on the 2nd disc instead, and includes the uncut, original, 50-minute version of "The Making of E.T.", called "Evolution and Creation of E.T.", on an all-new 3rd disc. The "Live at the Shrine!" featurette on Disc 1 of the 2-disc is also shifted to Disc 3 of the 4-disc, as is "The E.T. Reunion" featurette and Marketing Gallery from Disc 2 of the 2-disc.

I think maybe Uni should worry more about getting it right the first time than what the lesser of two evils is with recall vs. defect annoucement. And my point was why do a defect announcement with BTTF but a silent recall now? Again it points to them caring more about their unwanted combos than consumer satisfaction.

And I recall that BTTF exchange taking more than two weeks at the beginning - perhaps you sent your discs in later on. It took them a while to get going on it. I'd have to check the dates but I don't think program was even implemented until February after the December release.

The first part: fair enough. But I thought you were telling them to do a silent recall. That's basically what Iron Man was. It didn't move the date, and they just quietly told retailers to send back the old stock.I do remember that. The gap was so they could create and press the discs, according to them. I sent mine right at the beginning. Maybe it was longer than 2 weeks, but it was certainly less than a month.This is really the only part I've been railing against. For many in this thread, it seems like "consumer satisfaction" is "not Combo Discs, ever, for any reason". I think it's unreasonable. I will be satisfied by a functional product. Some people make it sound like they could come with a gold bar and they'd still refuse to buy any.

It's not just playback issues. There are questions of

1) Disc thickness. Flipper discs have had problems with slot-loading drives, including stuck drives that can't properly eject.
2) Longevity. Unless Universal has made an advancement in adhesives they haven't told anybody about, in a year or two the layers are going to start separating, faster if subjected to a bit of humidity or heat. This problem is likely to occur after any warranty period has expired making you SOL on replacement. That is not cool.
3) These kind of discs have more manufacturing defects, so it's a lot more likely you'll get dud disc.

I still have my 'recalled' Iron Man BD and it works just fine.

So your wondering why consumers are upset that Universal is taking a product that works perfectly well that the mass public, not to mention film collectors, are perfectly satisfied with and replacing it with something that has a unprecedented history of fuck ups? Yeah, your whole little "as long as it works" argument is fine and dandy, but the bottom line is that this is just another example of Universal cutting corners and kicking their consumer base in the nuts. If they really just want to ship one product UPC, then they should take the Disney (and now WB/Fox) route and put the two discs in one package instead of bringing back something that has already failed twice over. Its pretty much bullshit and I still don't see how you can stand behind such a dim-witted studio.

Because, as I've been saying repeatedly, I have not experienced any such "failure" and don't see it as having an "unprecedented history of fuck-ups". Every dual sided disc I have bought from Universal has been fine. I have at least one friend who owned Casino, at least, and did not have any problems either. I don't feel like Combo Discs are a "kick in the nuts" or a sign that they're "cutting corners". Doesn't it cost more for them to try and debut a new format rather than just go with the "DVD-in-the-case" route?

In fact, I did realize that I HAVE actually owned an HD-DVD Combo Format disc, even though I didn't own the player, since Universal did a new transfer for Army of Darkness for HD-DVD. That worked too.

In any case, I am not so much "standing behind" this change as standing around it, as my experience buying Universal DVDs to date has not given me a reason to be mad about it. I'm not necessarily encouraging the change, but I don't have a problem with it. It's like we're neighbors with the same guy, and he's an ass to you and nice to me. You can tell me he's an ass all you want, but until I see it for myself, I'm not just going to change my opinion around.

Which goes to show Paramount did care about quality even though the issue was minor. If that was Uni, well, you know.

First, what I'm saying is why do things one way now but another way before?

Second, on the timeline of the exchange, I distinctly remember an air of "this is taking longer than it should" sentiment on the forums back then, both with the establishment of the program and the turnaround time.

Finally, as said by others, who cares if some of these discs are functional or not? If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT. Put a separate DVD in there.

So are you saying you were just watching the DVD side on this disc? If so, that doesn't really count since it was the HD DVD side that suffered problems. Yet another kick in the nuts - the only watchable side was the one that shouldn't even be there.