re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

No 50% after 100K likes on Criterion FB, btw, jsut a nice little thank you to us Criterion geeks.

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Sooo...

https://i10.createsend1.com/ei/r/43/...llerskater.png

Guesses?

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Sweet! That's definitely Heaven's Gate! I hope it's the director's cut!

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Thanks.
I'm curious for this one only if the extras are worthwhile.

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First thing I thought of as well.

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I had never heard of it before so I looked it up. Wikipedia says it's considered one of the worst movies ever and a complete failure in every way. Is it actually good? I'm a bit surprised Criterion is releasing it after hearing that.

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It was a pretty notorious flop when it came out, and it got a lot of really negative press. Like Ishtar, its name has become synonymous with "huge budget flops." Many saw it as an example of the danger of letting a director have free rein over his own film, and studios may or may not have used it as an excuse to become slightly more conservative in their financing decisions.

However, it did have its defenders at the time of its release, and over time its reputation has improved quite a bit. Some critics now consider it an unfairly maligned masterpiece (it ranks in the 600s on the "They Shoot Pictures, Don't They" list, which is a ranked list of the top 1000 greatest films as compiled from hundreds of critics lists from around the world.) There are also various cuts of it that apparently improve on it.

I watched one version of it many years ago, and I remember feeling pretty ambivalent about it. It definitely wasn't "one of the worst movies ever" or anything - at the very least, it's very beautiful, and the production values are top notch. But the film never really seemed to come alive, which made the running time seem very long indeed.

I'll probably rent the Criterion release to see if my views have changed - or to see if the director's cut improves on it - but I kind of doubt I'll end up loving it or wanting to buy it (I also have mixed feelings about Cimino's more widely loved film, so I think I may just not like his style.)

It's definitely one of their riskier choices, but I can kind of understand their motivation for releasing it. At the very least, it's pretty important to Hollywood history. There was also apparently a lot of drama on the set, so they should be able to come up with some interesting extras.

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So happy if it turns out to be Heaven's Gate!

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There's no doubt about it.

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Then I am overjoyed!!

This movie, more than any ever, has created the biggest change in opinion for me over the years. When I first saw it I was underwhelmed, but over the years it has become one of my favorites.

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Does Wiki really say that? Sondheim is right. It's a really good film that got really bad publicity and word of mouth before anyone had even seen it. It was maligned for years. Then people actually fucking watched the thing and realized it was very good. Not great like The Godfather or anything, but certainly nowhere near bad.

The directors cut plays on HD Net movies and it looks beautiful.

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here's an odd one: brie larson's top 10 criterions

sidenote: i think i'm officially in love with her

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I'm sure it will include the director's cut. What will really be a coup is if we get the shortened studio cut. It has never been released on video. Comparing the two will be very interesting.

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It's great seeing such a young actress being so into films of all kinds.

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This is the one I've been waiting for for years.

I think it's safe to assume this will be the 219 min. cut(same as the MGM dvd that came out in 2000). That was the one that originally premiered in 1981, played for three days and was then pulled from theaters for a year and half while Cimino removed an hour of footage. The shortened version has never been released on video.

What would really be interesting would be the five hour rough cut that Cimino showed to United Artist executives. Steven Bach mentions it in his book Final Cut.

There's also a great documentary (in eight parts) about Heaven's Gate on youtube.

Heaven's Gate is certainly not one of the worst films ever made. Often when a film is labeled one of the worst ever, it has nothing to do with the film's quality. It's simply because the film has a rhythm that audiences can't appreciate or understand. They say it's terrible because it doesn't fit with the tiny cinematic palette that they're used to.

Look at 2001: A Space Odyssey. The film is long, slow and has huge sections where there's no dialogue at all. It's hard to explain the hypnotic feeling that makes 2001 so alluring to someone who thinks it's boring. Many critics and moviegoers had a very negative opinion of it in 1968. But 2001 stood the test of time.

Why was Heaven's Gate treated so unfairly? The director's preferred version only played for THREE DAYS on ONE screen before it was yanked from distribution. So many people had the opinion that it was one one of the Worst Films Ever Made, and yet almost no one had actually seen it.

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It's known that the long director's cut is actually better. The documentary Z Channel: A Magnificent Obsession discusses Heaven's Gate and how I think the long version was shown either on that cable channel or shown at a festival.

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Speaking of films with more than one versions, any chance Criterion would be interested in/could get their hands on 1984? It would be nice to have both versions of this film as well.

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agreed.

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1984 would be awesome and would seem to be right up CC's alley. I've been hanging on to my MGM DVD and HD recording like grim death since it went OOP.

I have to admit I didn't know anything about Heaven's gate but after reading about it I will be blind buying.

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There were news articles about the budget overruns on this movie for months before it was released. I was kind of obsessed with it at that time, and have a collection of about 20 magazine and newspaper articles about it (this was before the internets, yo). Every review I read led with the budget problems, the quality of the film itself was an afterthought. With all this, I've never actually seen the movie itself.

I read Final Cut years ago, but don't remember a lot of the business details about how it effectively bankrupted United Artists. The details about Cimino being completely oblivious to how much money was being wasted are what is memorable (and disgusting). It's one thing to spend money on a movie, it's another to squander it.

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I can't believe Criterion is adding Heaven's Gate to their collection...it was widely panned, and reviews of the longer version say it's just as bad. I remember Roger Ebert's review on this movie where he said something like "this is the worst Western I've ever seen...and I've seen PAINT YOUR WAGON." :)

Could this be the worst movie added to their collection since ARMAGEDDON? Does Criterion's definition of "important films" now include ones that were box-office and critical distasters? :(

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I haven't watched it (yet) myself, but there's no possible way it could be worse than Chasing Amy, Benjamin Button, Easy Rider or the American Godzilla. I haven't seen Jubilee, Hopscotch, Tiny Furniture, Border Radio or Ride with the Devil, the other titles which seem to have garnered the most criticism.

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Here's the Ebert review to which you refer.

The value in this release will be determined by the value of bonus features. I won't buy it for the movie alone but if the extras are extraordinary then I may consider it during the next B&N sale.

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Chasing Amy is widely considered Kevin Smith's best movie and got great reviews. Benjamin Button is an Oscar nominee. Easy Rider is a well-reviewed classic piece of Americana, and while the American version of Godzilla may have issues, it's part of the Criterion release of the JAPANESE original - so it's almost "supplimental" material. Point is, all of those films are well-reviewed and have a significant following. I didn't like them all, either (I hated Benjamin Button), but I certainly think it has enough going for it to be in the Criterion library. I don't see how Heaven's Gate fits into any of those niches. Is there really a following out there for this film (other than those who just love it because it's so awful?). I mean, there might be some people who wind up watching it with such LOW expectations that they'll come away saying "well, it wasn't THAT bad"...but Heaven's Gate is in no way, shape, or form, a "good" movie, let alone a "great" one.

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As I said in my previous post, the film has gained a significant following in the 30 years since its release - and yes, there many who consider it a maligned masterpiece (and not of the "so bad it's good" variety.) In fact, it has a large enough critical following for it to rank in the 600s on the They Shoot Pictures list of the top 1000 greatest films ever made.

It even has a 6.5 on the IMDb, ranking it far above most legitimate contenders for "worst movies ever made." A rating which also suggests that much of the "one of the worst movies ever made" talk was based more on the negative publicity surrounding the film rather than the actual quality of the film itself.

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???????? i feel like i don't even know you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(

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Have you actually seen it?

Your earlier post seems to indicate that you haven't.

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I'd easily put all those titles you specifically mentioned over Border Radio any day of the week...

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I've seen the non-extended version...sort of...I got through about half of it. I find it hard to believe the longer version is a better version - I don't think this is another ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA.

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It is better. It's a good film (on a highly compelling topic) that could've been a great one were it not for internal and external factors that seemed to afflict not only Cimino but other filmmakers working at his level during that era. Moreover — as someone else pointed out a couple of times above — it's an important contemporary film (meaning it fits nicely under the slogan on the back of all Criterion discs), even if for notorious reasons, and hopefully the supplements will reflect that. Final Cut is a gold mine of information. The "worst movie ever made" designation can be bestowed upon thousands of more deserving candidates.

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The AV club did a nice article on why 12 Angry Men got it wrong. Pretty good read.

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Universal release 10/2... looks like you will be waiting a while

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I was only joking. Check out the post I was responding to.

Speaking of Wes Anderson, The Royal Tenenbaums will be $19.99 at Best Buy next week, which will also lead to it being the same price on Amazon.

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yep, was just going to post the price for TRT

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Well, looks like I'll be grabbing that one...

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I usually never buy Criterion discs until the B&N sale, but 'Heaven's Gate' is one film that I would buy day 1 - extras or no extras.

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great to see a Criterion advertised by BB

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Someone in Blu-ray.com forum just confirmed that Criterion will be releasing Spike Lee's "The 25th Hour".