General Blu-ray News and Discussion - Part 5
01-26-08 | 07:41 AM
#151
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From: Chicago, IL
To be clear I don't have ANY problem with bundled players. Fine good move. Good way to clear out 1.0 players and get an installed base.
I do have problems with certain individuals using those "sales" numbers to PROVE that Blu Ray all of sudden caught fire because of the Warner announcement.
I do have problems with certain individuals using those "sales" numbers to PROVE that Blu Ray all of sudden caught fire because of the Warner announcement.
01-26-08 | 08:54 AM
#152
I would think that getting a "free" BD player did factor into the purchase though. I bet the bundled displays could have been purchased cheaper elsewhere, or the "free" player helped the buyer choose one display over another.
I agree, who cares about the numbers. It's all about getting players in homes...whether it is Toshiba, Sony, Panny, Samsung, Sharp, etc.
I agree, who cares about the numbers. It's all about getting players in homes...whether it is Toshiba, Sony, Panny, Samsung, Sharp, etc.
01-26-08 | 09:55 AM
#153
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From: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by chanster
To be clear I don't have ANY problem with bundled players. Fine good move. Good way to clear out 1.0 players and get an installed base.
I do have problems with certain individuals using those "sales" numbers to PROVE that Blu Ray all of sudden caught fire because of the Warner announcement.
I do have problems with certain individuals using those "sales" numbers to PROVE that Blu Ray all of sudden caught fire because of the Warner announcement.
01-26-08 | 10:12 AM
#154
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by RoboDad
The betanews article has already been completely discredited. Comments were attributed to NPD that were never said, and the entire article was spun to present the most favorable impression for HD DVD.
For the actual story, read it at twice.com:
http://www.twice.com/article/ca6524995.html
For the actual story, read it at twice.com:
http://www.twice.com/article/ca6524995.html
NPD attributed the results largely to promotions run by several Blu-ray supporting manufacturers, and said they were not necessarily the result of reaction to the news that Warner Bros. would be dropping support of HD DVD to go exclusively with Blu-ray in May.
“We’ve been doing weekly data for a long time, and we often times will see big shifts in sales for one week that doesn’t necessarily determine a trend,” said Stephen Baker, NPD Group industry analysis VP, told TWICE. “There were some promotions in the marketplace during that week with Sharp and Sony bundling Blu-ray players with televisions — it seems to me unlikely that consumers would have made that kind of a choice that quickly based on new reports of Warner Bros. shifting from Blu-ray and HD DVD to Blu-ray exclusively.”
Typically, Baker emphasized, big swings in market share are the result of major promotions.
“We’ve been doing weekly data for a long time, and we often times will see big shifts in sales for one week that doesn’t necessarily determine a trend,” said Stephen Baker, NPD Group industry analysis VP, told TWICE. “There were some promotions in the marketplace during that week with Sharp and Sony bundling Blu-ray players with televisions — it seems to me unlikely that consumers would have made that kind of a choice that quickly based on new reports of Warner Bros. shifting from Blu-ray and HD DVD to Blu-ray exclusively.”
Typically, Baker emphasized, big swings in market share are the result of major promotions.
01-26-08 | 10:21 AM
#155
DVD Talk Legend
Even if you ignore the BD standalone sales bump, it's hard to ignore the decrease in HD DVD player sales, even with the price cuts. To me that's what correlates with the lopsided software numbers the past couple weeks. It's obvious less people are buying HD DVD now, regardless of whether or not more people are buying Blu.
Not to mention, I don't think it's unreasonable to think free Blu-Ray players influenced some people's decisions to buy an HDTV now.
Regardless, as Mr. Cinema said, more hardware in houses is better for software sales. That's what it's about.
Wasn't that the point of the Toshiba blowouts last fall?
Not to mention, I don't think it's unreasonable to think free Blu-Ray players influenced some people's decisions to buy an HDTV now.
Regardless, as Mr. Cinema said, more hardware in houses is better for software sales. That's what it's about.
Wasn't that the point of the Toshiba blowouts last fall?
01-26-08 | 10:27 AM
#156
DVD Talk Hero
This has me curious, if the free players weighed in favor of Blu, did the free DVD deals (discounting the 5 MIR deals) weigh in on each side?
01-26-08 | 10:51 AM
#157
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February 2008
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I am Legend - I Am Legend
Die Fremde in Dir - The Brave One, Per IMDB AKA notes...
Rezept zum Verlieben - No Reservations, Per IMDB AKA notes...
Invasion
Die Ermordung des Jesse James durch den Feigling Robert Ford - Assassination of Jesse James...
March 2008
Machtlos - Rendition
Mystic River
Charlie und die Schokoladenfabrik - Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
April 2008
Troja - Director´s Cut - Troy: Director's Cut
June 2008
Constantine
V wie Vendetta - V For Vendetta
Batman Begins
Dirty Harry - Dirty Harry
Calahan - Magnum Force
Der Unerbittliche - The Enforcer
Dirty Harry kommt zurück - Sudden Impact
Dirty Harry in "Das Todesspiel"- The Dead Pool
Noch ohne Termin - TBD
Der goldene Kompass - Golden Compass
I am Legend - I Am Legend
01-26-08 | 10:56 AM
#158
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From: A far green country
Originally Posted by Josh Z
From the article you linked:
I don't see anything that "discredits" the BetaNews article. Quite the contrary, they say the same thing.
I don't see anything that "discredits" the BetaNews article. Quite the contrary, they say the same thing.
Just looking at the Samsung numbers alone, betanews claimed that Samsung Blu-ray player sales were "almost nonexistent", yet the twice article shows that Samung accounted for 6% of overall sales (with no bundle offers), compared with Toshiba's 7%.
01-26-08 | 10:57 AM
#159
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Originally Posted by tonymontana313
How else do you explain the last two weeks in software sales? 85/15 and 83/17 would certainly qualify for heavy tilt after the Warner announcement. As someone else also mentioned, the Since Inception numbers have moved up the last two weeks as well so we are not just talking about small volumes either.
Blu-ray had 3:10 to Yuma, Resident Evil, Good Luck Chuck, War...
All HD DVD had was catalog titles and a direct to video movie (White Noise 2)
If American Gangster came out the numbers would be a lot different, but the fact is there is very few new HD DVD releases for the next month. All to blame on Universal and Paramount.
01-26-08 | 11:00 AM
#160
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Originally Posted by RoboDad
No, they don't. The percentages of sales reported in the two articles differ significantly, and nothing in the article at twice.com claims that every Blu-ray player that was moved was the result of the bundle offers. Quite the contrary, the twice article only makes it clear that much the large jump was likely due to the offers, but NOT every player sold, as betanews claimed.
Just looking at the Samsung numbers alone, betanews claimed that Samsung Blu-ray player sales were "almost nonexistent", yet the twice article shows that Samung accounted for 6% of overall sales (with no bundle offers), compared with Toshiba's 7%.
Just looking at the Samsung numbers alone, betanews claimed that Samsung Blu-ray player sales were "almost nonexistent", yet the twice article shows that Samung accounted for 6% of overall sales (with no bundle offers), compared with Toshiba's 7%.
Pioneer = 30%
Sharp = 30%
Samsung = 6%
Other (Dual, Panasonic?) = 4%
Yes, that is pretty low. If HD DVD had 7% and sold 1,100 players, Samsung sold 900 or so (even at the new low price of $299 for the 1400). Keep in mind A3x were still the old MSRP, we have yet to see numbers with the new pricing.
01-26-08 | 11:03 AM
#161
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From: A far green country
Originally Posted by bunkaroo
Even if you ignore the BD standalone sales bump, it's hard to ignore the decrease in HD DVD player sales, even with the price cuts.
The whole point of the twice article and the unusual announcement from NPD is that it is too soon to make any claims about how the Warner announcement will affect sales long-term, not that "this side" or "that side" is lying or failing. Any real change in hardware sales (which I do believe will be likely) will become more evident as we get closer to the end of Warner titles appearing on HD DVD. And, of course, we can look at trends in software sales, such as the Planet Earth set, which appears to be continuing to drop on the HD DVD side, but not on the Blu-ray side.
01-26-08 | 11:06 AM
#162
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From: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
What HD DVD titles came out in those two weeks?
Blu-ray had 3:10 to Yuma, Resident Evil, Good Luck Chuck, War...
All HD DVD had was catalog titles and a direct to video movie (White Noise 2)
If American Gangster came out the numbers would be a lot different, but the fact is there is very few new HD DVD releases for the next month. All to blame on Universal and Paramount.
Blu-ray had 3:10 to Yuma, Resident Evil, Good Luck Chuck, War...
All HD DVD had was catalog titles and a direct to video movie (White Noise 2)
If American Gangster came out the numbers would be a lot different, but the fact is there is very few new HD DVD releases for the next month. All to blame on Universal and Paramount.
01-26-08 | 11:08 AM
#163
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From: A far green country
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Sony = 30%
Pioneer = 30%
Sharp = 30%
Samsung = 6%
Other (Dual, Panasonic?) = 4%
Yes, that is pretty low. If HD DVD had 7% and sold 1,100 players, Samsung sold 900 or so (even at the new low price of $299 for the 1400). Keep in mind A3x were still the old MSRP, we have yet to see numbers with the new pricing.
Pioneer = 30%
Sharp = 30%
Samsung = 6%
Other (Dual, Panasonic?) = 4%
Yes, that is pretty low. If HD DVD had 7% and sold 1,100 players, Samsung sold 900 or so (even at the new low price of $299 for the 1400). Keep in mind A3x were still the old MSRP, we have yet to see numbers with the new pricing.
Sony 34%
Panasonic 27%
Sharp 23%
Toshiba 7%
Samsung 6%
LG 2%
Of course, I'm sure these numbers are rounded, which would account for the 1% discrepancy.
01-26-08 | 11:35 AM
#164
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by RoboDad
Not really. Just as some of the increase in Blu-ray sales can be attributed to the bundle offers, some of the decrease in HD DVD sales can be attributed to the end of a special pricing offer on players, which ended in January 5th.
The whole point of the twice article and the unusual announcement from NPD is that it is too soon to make any claims about how the Warner announcement will affect sales long-term, not that "this side" or "that side" is lying or failing. Any real change in hardware sales (which I do believe will be likely) will become more evident as we get closer to the end of Warner titles appearing on HD DVD. And, of course, we can look at trends in software sales, such as the Planet Earth set, which appears to be continuing to drop on the HD DVD side, but not on the Blu-ray side.
The whole point of the twice article and the unusual announcement from NPD is that it is too soon to make any claims about how the Warner announcement will affect sales long-term, not that "this side" or "that side" is lying or failing. Any real change in hardware sales (which I do believe will be likely) will become more evident as we get closer to the end of Warner titles appearing on HD DVD. And, of course, we can look at trends in software sales, such as the Planet Earth set, which appears to be continuing to drop on the HD DVD side, but not on the Blu-ray side.
According to the raw numbers HD DVD players sales dropped off 87% from the week of 1/5 to the week of 1/12.
That's not just special pricing ending.
01-26-08 | 11:36 AM
#165
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Originally Posted by tonymontana313
Bluray has had more higher profile releases in 2007 and yet the numbers never got this bad. How do you explain that?
While there are some awesome catalog releases on both sides, not everyone is interested in spending $20-$35 on them when their DVD version looks just as fine upscaled. New releases is what carries the numbers every week not catalog titles. Only a few times has a catalog title broken into the top 10, and its usually because of a forced sale (Open Season, Good Fellas).
01-26-08 | 11:37 AM
#166
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Originally Posted by bunkaroo
According to the raw numbers HD DVD players sales dropped off 87% from the week of 1/5 to the week of 1/12.
That's not just special pricing ending.
That's not just special pricing ending.
01-26-08 | 11:38 AM
#167
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by tonymontana313
Bluray has had more higher profile releases in 2007 and yet the numbers never got this bad. How do you explain that?
But here's the flipside of the "no new HD DVD titles to compete with"....why weren't there?
If the BD studios saw fit to have several higher profile releases in January, why didn't Universal and Paramount counter?
That's like saying you didn't lose a baseball game because you didn't show up to play.
01-26-08 | 11:39 AM
#168
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
I imagine people returning HD DVD players also make that number go down as well. Still hoping for an open box XA2...
01-26-08 | 11:40 AM
#169
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Originally Posted by bunkaroo
Do we know for sure that returns decrement those sales numbers?
Someone here must know how that works.
01-26-08 | 11:41 AM
#170
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From: A far green country
Originally Posted by bunkaroo
Do we know for sure that returns decrement those sales numbers?
01-26-08 | 11:43 AM
#171
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Originally Posted by RoboDad
I don't know that for sure, but I'd be surprised if they didn't. Otherwise, it would be too easy to artificially inflate numbers.
01-26-08 | 11:48 AM
#172
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From: A far green country
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
I could see an organized "buy a Blu-ray player then return it the next day" day at Blu-ray.com
No, I'm pretty certain that returns MUST factor into sales numbers, whether the item goes back into inventory or back to the manufacturer.
Last edited by RoboDad; 01-26-08 at 11:51 AM.
01-26-08 | 11:55 AM
#173
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Originally Posted by RoboDad
I know you're joking, but seriously, if returns aren't factored into overall sales numbers, that could happen, on either side -- there are a LOT of angry, disgruntled HD DVD owners over at AVS. And more seriously (and more insidiously), retailers (who attract new vendor business based on sales volume) could inflate their apparent volume in the hope of attracting new business agreements.
No, I'm pretty certain that returns MUST factor into sales numbers, whether the item goes back into inventory or back to the manufacturer.
No, I'm pretty certain that returns MUST factor into sales numbers, whether the item goes back into inventory or back to the manufacturer.
01-26-08 | 11:58 AM
#174
DVD Talk Legend
Now that I think about it, I believe it's the act of being scanned at the point of sale system that registers the unit being moved into/out of inventory.
I don't think they can base sales off what the store shows in inventory from week to week, because I can tell you as a retail home office guy of many years, our stores' onsite inventory counts are almost never accurate.
I don't think they can base sales off what the store shows in inventory from week to week, because I can tell you as a retail home office guy of many years, our stores' onsite inventory counts are almost never accurate.
01-26-08 | 12:40 PM
#175
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
I'm almost positive that they do count as a negative in sales numbers if one is returned. Otherwise whats stopping anyone (Toshiba, Sony, Samsung?) from just go buying a ton of them and return them?
