|
[QUOTE=Vendetta-AKK]
Originally Posted by RoboDad
I know far too many people who have cited the format war as a significant reason for them not looking more seriously at HDM.QUOTE]
I work in inventory pt at my local Borders and I talk to customers every single day who tell me this, and even more who are confused by the two competing formats. The format war and the confusion have slowed this from moving past the early adapter stage the way HD TV has, no doubt. |
Dude, welcome to the hate-festering cesspool of the "early adopting / HD-DVD" circle jerk of "mod-mafia witness protection list" that is infamously known as "DVD TALK"...prepare to be banned...my condolences....
|
I am on your side by the way, and actually share your beliefs....
|
Hey Gizmo and Josh Z...do your duty and report this post to a MOD ASAP...
|
jiggawhat, Josh Z, bunkaroo: Several of your posts were removed. Totally uncalled for.
jiggawhat, bunkaroo: See http://www.imdb.com/news/sb/2008-02-06/#6 (link provided by Josh Z). According to that and a few other studies that I've read, that is the state of the consumers today. The format war is only a small factor. So when posts like "I know far too many people who have cited the format war as a significant reason for them not looking more seriously at HDM" are made, be prepared for responses like "How many, exactly?" If you're not happy with that, then provide us with studies--not just anecdotes--that show the format war being a significant factor. Just don't post fighting words. Josh Z: On the other hand, you know what's going to happen when you respond as such. It only leads to arguments that are personal. The only saving grace on your posts was your link to a real study. Even still, your constant badgering is disrupting discussion. To Everybody: This whole fighting between the groups is getting really old. The HD Talk mods are exhausted and burnt out. Once we are burnt out, it's gonna be suspension at the tiniest things. I shudder at that thought. Let's not get to that point. namja Moderator, DVD Talk Forums |
Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
Earlier he noted a time frame of approximately five years of DVD viability. I tend to agree. Five years from now I also see HD media being as the core business for many distribs and DVD being slowly phased out.
Pro-B |
Until there is a way to turn a profit at $35 for both retailers and CEs, while still offering full-featured, stable players, then we will see DVD players on shelves.
BD will certainly supplant your Denons and other high-end players, but I think it will be a long, long time before they will hit $30. |
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
I would also be surprised if we see dvd players on shelves in 5 years. With BD players being able to play dvd, I can't see a reason to even keep making dvd players.
As for the other topic at hand, it's all speculation about how much influence the format war has on adoption anyway. My personal take on this is that the format war is more generally used as an excuse than a reason. It'd be an absolutely legitimate reason, of course, but that's not how I think it's being approached. I'd bet that if HD DVD completely ceased to exist right now, the vast, vast, vast majority of the people who've said "not until there's a winner" still wouldn't buy a Blu-ray player, at least not in the short term. I have no doubt that there are people who are holding out for a definitive, undisputed winner, and I'm sure the format war has kept some people from wanting to investigate HDM more thoroughly, but as factors that might turn people away go, I would consider the format war to be at best a distant third behind disinterest and price. Do I have any way of proving that? Nope. None of us do. It's all anecdotal or pure speculation. |
Originally Posted by Josh Z
How many, exactly?
"We interview consumers, and over the last year 60% didn't want to buy either format until there was a clear winner," says Envisioneering Group director Richard Doherty. Full article, and worth the read. http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/...-blu-ray_N.htm |
Price is not the issue. Best Buy sells their HDM almost at full retail and they're the largest seller of it by far.
|
I can make you believe anything is real or correct with a percentage poll.
What this comes down to is consumers and ask yourself this: ON a percentage basis how many average consumers have hd capable tv's? Of that percentage how many of those consumers have gone out of their way to bother with upgrading their cable or satellite to receive hd content? If the general public, for the most part, is barely aware of hdtv's and most of the ones that have them don't even pony up the extra $10 - $15 a month for hd content - how many are going to be willing to spend $400 for a blu-ray player and $20 to $40 for discs??? Not many, and that is why HD-DVD is the new BETA, and Blu-Ray will barely catch on better than Laserdiscs (as a percentage of discs sold comparible to the other format at the time - VHS). Of course, this is just my opinion, and I don't really have anything to back it up. One thing I do know, is that in less than 2 months my blu-ray collection is already quickly gaining ground on my HD-DVD collection and I was a very hard-line supporter of HD-DVD. |
Originally Posted by namja
Josh Z: On the other hand, you know what's going to happen when you respond as such. It only leads to arguments that are personal. The only saving grace on your posts was your link to a real study. Even still, your constant badgering is disrupting discussion.
If HD DVD is going to die, then it's going to die. So it goes. The CE landscape is cluttered with good products that never got a fair shake. But this constant gloating about it is just obnoxious. Contrary to accusations being made, I have never advocated for Blu-ray to go away. I like both formats and believe they both have their place. When Blu-ray does things right, I applaud them. When they do things wrong, I criticize them. I do the same in both cases for HD DVD. I hold both to the same standard. I think that people cheering for the death of HD DVD (or vice versa) need to assess their motives for doing so. The argument that the format war is the only thing stopping mainstream consumer adoption is a red herring, and everyone knows it. This is nothing but a pointless pissing match between groups of people who have no real stake in the outcome one way or the other. |
Originally Posted by Josh Z
But this constant gloating about it is just obnoxious. Would it be fair to ask for links to the alleged gloating? Is anything positive for Blu-Ray in the Blu-Ray thread considered gloating? It is sincerely not my intent to instigate. But while some may see gloating here, I see a lot of griping from HD DVD supporters, and frankly, that has no place in the Blu-Ray thread IMO. That's what gets those of us who own both formats irritated when we come here to read about Blu-Ray news. |
Originally Posted by matome
Price is not the issue. Best Buy sells their HDM almost at full retail and they're the largest seller of it by far.
It is easy to spin things to look good. They may be the best seller of that .1% of DVD sales, but it still doesn't change the fact that AT BEST they are getting only .1% of DVD sales. Dealing with facts, if you put a Zodiac HD DVD and a Zodiac DVD side by side, I would bet 85-95% of the people would choose the one that is cheaper. I omitted any BD reference to keep the usual suspects from defending puirely on the letters B and D. The format makes no difference. Walmart is the most successful company in the world. They have mad a fortune selling things of slightly lesser quality at a significant savings. |
Wal-Mart just dropped HD-DVD. I'm pointing out the Best Buy thing, because people make it sound like price is the reason people are waiting out the format war, when it's more on the confusion of two formats.
|
I think the greater point is that people just aren't "waiting out the format war" they don't give a shit.
I am also not referencing a "war" between BD and HD DVD. When WalMart dumps DVD, give me a call. |
Apathy? Possible, but if BD becomes a niche, so be it. I had no issues with laserdisc for the many years that I collected it and will have no problem if BD remains the same (which I doubt).
|
Originally Posted by Josh Z
I'm just trying to keep this discussion honest.
If HD DVD is going to die, then it's going to die. So it goes. The CE landscape is cluttered with good products that never got a fair shake. But this constant gloating about it is just obnoxious. Contrary to accusations being made, I have never advocated for Blu-ray to go away. I like both formats and believe they both have their place. When Blu-ray does things right, I applaud them. When they do things wrong, I criticize them. I do the same in both cases for HD DVD. I hold both to the same standard. I think that people cheering for the death of HD DVD (or vice versa) need to assess their motives for doing so. The argument that the format war is the only thing stopping mainstream consumer adoption is a red herring, and everyone knows it. This is nothing but a pointless pissing match between groups of people who have no real stake in the outcome one way or the other. And yes, HD DVD is dead. |
Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
I have no doubt that there are people who are holding out for a definitive, undisputed winner, and I'm sure the format war has kept some people from wanting to investigate HDM more thoroughly, but as factors that might turn people away go, I would consider the format war to be at best a distant third behind disinterest and price. Do I have any way of proving that? Nope. None of us do. It's all anecdotal or pure speculation. DVD isn't going anywhere. It's here to stay for quite some time, like CD.
Originally Posted by dan30oly
I can make you believe anything is real or correct with a percentage poll.
What this comes down to is consumers and ask yourself this: ON a percentage basis how many average consumers have hd capable tv's? Of that percentage how many of those consumers have gone out of their way to bother with upgrading their cable or satellite to receive hd content? If the general public, for the most part, is barely aware of hdtv's and most of the ones that have them don't even pony up the extra $10 - $15 a month for hd content - how many are going to be willing to spend $400 for a blu-ray player and $20 to $40 for discs??? ------------------ BTW: here's the latest study, showing the bump blu-ray has gotten from the WB defection. http://www.tvpredictions.com/blustudy020808.htm Washington, D.C. (February 8, 2008) -- Consumer interest in Blu-ray players is growing while interest in HD DVD is flattening. That's according to a new study from the NPD Group, as reported by Video Business. NPD notes that consumers' desire to buy Blu-ray players has risen since Warner Bros. announced last month that it would endorse the high-def disc format. The decision has given Blu-ray a 5-2 advantage over HD DVD among major studios. The research study found that 8.1 percent of consumers said they "intended" to buy a Blu-ray player, compared to 6.3 percent late last year. The consumer intent to buy HD DVD is still slightly higher than for Blu-ray, but NPD says it has declined since Thanksgiving. Despite the improvement for Blu-ray, NPD also says that less than 10 percent of consumers say they plan to buy a player in either format in the next six months. http://forums.dvdfile.com/showthread.php?t=65188
Originally Posted by Home Media Magazine
Originally Posted by Home Media Magazine
The Blu-ray Disc Association may have declared victory over HD DVD in the format war, but consumers remain largely indifferent toward high-def packaged media, according to a new study. The report from the NPD Group, based on a sample group of 6,000 frequent DVD buyers, found that fewer than 10% of respondents said they would buy either a standalone Blu-ray or HD DVD player in the next six months. Despite Warner Home Video’s decision in January to exclusively release all high-def packaged media after May 31 in Blu-ray, the number of respondents intending to purchase a BD player increased just 1.8%, to 8.1%, as of Jan. 16, according to the study. Russ Crupnick, VP and senior entertainment analyst with the NPD Group, said even such a small percentage increase when based upon the number of DVD-buying U.S. households would result in sales of 1.6 million standalone BD players. Currently there are about 1 million standalone Blu-ray and HD DVD players combined in the United States. “I think it is a positive sign but not an overwhelming game changer,” Crupnick said. “It is significant from a marketing standpoint. It will take some time for all of this to trickle down at retail.” He said a caveat of the study is that intent among respondents to purchase next-generation packaged media often is not followed through at retail. “It is a measure of awareness,” Crupnick said. “How positive somebody feels about the format and not necessarily translating to actual sales.” Crupnick said a previous NPD study for HDTV found that a majority of respondents were satisfied with standard DVD. Indeed, Warner last year in a consumer study found that more than 50% of respondents were indifferent toward HD packaged media. Nonetheless, retailers appear to be leaning toward Blu-ray in greater numbers. Best Buy Co. said beginning in March it would prominently showcase BD hardware and movies in stores. The Minneapolis-based consumer electronics chain is considered the largest seller of HD packaged media. Ken Cranes Big Screen Headquarters, a Southern Calif.-based chain, in its Sunday newspaper circular offered a free Toshiba HD-A3 player with the purchase of any Toshiba HDTV. No. 2 CE retailer, Circuit City Stores Inc. continues to sell both HD DVD and Blu-ray players. Amazon, however, issued a disclaimer on its site informing potential HD DVD consumers that it would no longer support the format in the future. “It will be very difficult at retail justifying selling a format that is not going to have the support of the studios,” Crupnick said. He said the Blu-ray survey results should be considered positive because they represent a beginning as well as inclination among consumers to do something in the future. “There is a lot of missionary work to be done,” Crupnick said. How do you folks that think DVD is on its way out look at these studies, poll results, etc and conclude what you do? It makes no sense to me. I'd love to see BD replace DVD. But seem to be no real numbers or facts that support that prediction. I'd be glad to see them, if they exist. |
Originally Posted by bunkaroo
Namja,
Would it be fair to ask for links to the alleged gloating? Is anything positive for Blu-Ray in the Blu-Ray thread considered gloating? It is sincerely not my intent to instigate. But while some may see gloating here, I see a lot of griping from HD DVD supporters, and frankly, that has no place in the Blu-Ray thread IMO. That's what gets those of us who own both formats irritated when we come here to read about Blu-Ray news. I can tell you from reading thousands of posts that we've had a LOT of gloating by some of the Blu-ray supporters and a LOT of defensive hostility by some of the HD DVD supporters. By the number of posters, maybe not a lot, but by the number of posts, we have way too many. Perhaps it follows the 80/20 pareto principle: 80% of the bad posts being made by 20% of the posters. As for this thread being a Blu-ray thread, yes, we want to read about what's going on with Blu-ray here. But this is not a Blu-ray pep rally thread, allowing anything BD-positive. We will continue to allow criticisms especially when there are against false information and posts that just blindly support Blu-ray. namja Moderator, DVD Talk Forums |
Originally Posted by Josh Z
I'm just trying to keep this discussion honest.
If HD DVD is going to die, then it's going to die. So it goes. The CE landscape is cluttered with good products that never got a fair shake. But this constant gloating about it is just obnoxious. Contrary to accusations being made, I have never advocated for Blu-ray to go away. I like both formats and believe they both have their place. When Blu-ray does things right, I applaud them. When they do things wrong, I criticize them. I do the same in both cases for HD DVD. I hold both to the same standard. I think that people cheering for the death of HD DVD (or vice versa) need to assess their motives for doing so. The argument that the format war is the only thing stopping mainstream consumer adoption is a red herring, and everyone knows it. This is nothing but a pointless pissing match between groups of people who have no real stake in the outcome one way or the other. Once HD DVD is dead, Blu-ray prices will drop and people will gather and cheer and replace all their DVD players with the fancy Blu-ray players. Software will drop and will be on the same level as DVD. Then, all your current DVD players in your computer, hooked up to your TV, in your car will magically turn into Blu-ray players as well. Its pretty easy to see thats whats going to happen :lol: Blu-ray will take over and overtake DVD in a matter of months, weeks maybe. Consumers will go gaga over it. Now, the real reality is Blu-ray will be lucky to even get 10% of what DVD is doing right now in the next 3 years. DVD is everywhere, in our houses, cars, built into our computers...its not going anyway and its clearly not going to be replaced. As much as some Pro-Blu people may think it will replace DVD, they have are nuts. DVD was a huge jump over VHS in every single way. Picture quality, ease of use, special features, size...all Blu-ray has going for it is better picture/audio. Extra features who really knows because we have the whole wonderful profile mess that 99% of the population has no idea about. Many employees that sell these players couldn't tell you what makes 1.1 and what makes 2.0. |
Originally Posted by namja
Sure you can ask.
I can tell you from reading thousands of posts that we've had a LOT of gloating by some of the Blu-ray supporters and a LOT of defensive hostility by some of the HD DVD supporters. By the number of posters, maybe not a lot, but by the number of posts, we have way too many. Perhaps it follows the 80/20 pareto principle: 80% of the bad posts being made by 20% of the posters. As for this thread being a Blu-ray thread, yes, we want to read about what's going on with Blu-ray here. But this is not a Blu-ray pep rally thread, allowing anything BD-positive. We will continue to allow criticisms especially when there are against false information and posts that just blindly support Blu-ray. namja Moderator, DVD Talk Forums Personally, the thing I'd be happy about the most with HD DVD going away will be potentially replacing all my Uni combos with BD versions. One can dream. |
GizmoDVD, you're just pouring gasoline to the fire. While I agree with some of the things you posted, I think you should really give it a rest. It's tiring. Thanks.
namja Moderator, DVD Talk Forums |
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Now, the real reality is Blu-ray will be lucky to even get 10% of what DVD is doing right now in the next 3 years. DVD is everywhere, in our houses, cars, built into our computers...its not going anyway and its clearly not going to be replaced. As much as some Pro-Blu people may think it will replace DVD, they have are nuts. DVD was a huge jump over VHS in every single way. Picture quality, ease of use, special features, size...all Blu-ray has going for it is better picture/audio. Extra features who really knows because we have the whole wonderful profile mess that 99% of the population has no idea about. Many employees that sell these players couldn't tell you what makes 1.1 and what makes 2.0.
I agree that HDM will probably stay a high-end niche market, although I think that the percentage may be closer to 20% rather than 10%. I think the percentage will be much higher for new releases, but catalogue titles will take a long time to ramp up. Also, I think within a year or so, people will have all but forgotten about the profile confusion. Profile 1.0 will be a distant memory for all but the early adoptors, and who knows if web-enabled content will even catch on. As for the gloating that others have commented on, I'm just excited that either of the formats look like the victor because the majority of the people that I know who I'd expect to embrace HDM, most have sat it out because of the format war. If pressed for numbers, I'd have to say that I know at least 20 people who have told me that who have HD TV's. |
Originally Posted by bunkaroo
Thanks for the clarification. I don't think there's been a lot of pep-rally like stuff recently, but that is up to you and the other mods to determine.
Personally, the thing I'd be happy about the most with HD DVD going away will be potentially replacing all my Uni combos with BD versions. One can dream. |
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:04 PM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.