and how do you know this, exactly?

Thank you. If you're going to sit here and argue with us without having done the research then this discussion is pointless.

Yes. My parents use a Denon 5-disc DVD player in the house (no monitor, just hooked up to a receiver) as a stand-alone CD-player. In the past they had a Sony 5-disc DVD player setup in a similar fashion for another area of the house. They upgraded it for one of those 300 disc CD players.

Just because it's used for that doesn't make it that. I could use a dildo to get a nail in a wall but that doesn't make it a hammer.

Actually, you should see Home Depot's new hammer section. They've really opened it up...

I plan to. Now please enlighten me. All I can find regarding that quote is something pertaining to PS3, not Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, and it's just other people quoting the sentence out of context. As far as I know, the quote was in context of someone saying that the next generation of Playstation starts when they say is does, which is their prerogative.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize this forum was quite so cliquey. The other forums on this site are usually much more welcoming than you seem to be. I suppose a forum where some people have already set a format in their mind as the "best" one is going to generate hositility though. I suppose an out-of context quote from probably a single clueless exec regarding a video game system is common fuel to the fire of the "format wars."

The flaw in your argument is that the DVD/CD player is intended to be used as a CD player, that's one of its purposes and it's been specifically designed as such.

The quote you're looking for, I believe, is, "The next generation doesn't start until we say it does." That wasn't referring to the next generation of PS consoles, it was referring to the next generation of video gaming, period. Completely different meaning than how you took it.

I know that I use my dvd player as a cd player all the time and I would bet that many people around the world use it for that purpose . There aren't that many audiophiles who will buy a separate higher end CD player just to play CDs.

I put away my cd player after I got my DVD player and one would assume that millions around the world have done this.

Freak, you are starting to just make up random ass statements to somehow prove a point and to pick a fight. You are being the least objective and quite frankly are in denial about being a fanboy of HD-DVD. It's totally deluded your thought process.

Can you cite where it came from, who said it, and perhaps quote the surrounding context in which is was said? I still don't understand how a quote from one person about video game systems relates to Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD.

I don't know exactly. Nobody knows exactly. But if you want to talk that way, then we can even argue that a third format might even emerge which will dominate and kill off both HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc. Naturally, it's somewhat of a speculation. But that's pretty much a consensus in the industry. How do I know that?

I work for a company in the industry (I can have Geoff vouch for this). I get quarterly industry reports. The industry (manufacturers and the analysts) is in general agreement that no one is going to win this format war. One of the CEOs (manufacturer) mentioned how this was nothing like the VHS/Beta format war; rather this is playing out more like the DVD+R/DVD-R format war.

Still, this isn't an exact science. The manufacturers are frequently wrong; the analysts are sometimes wrong. But the way it looks now, both will thrive, not just survive.

I don't want to look it up now, but I'm pretty certain that Sony said that about next generation gaming. And no, it has nothing to do with the BD v. HD DVD discussion, except that PS3 is a BD player.

Both X-Box2 and PS3 are more than just gaming systems. They are entertainment systems. You can use them to play video games, watch movies, listen to music, etc.

"The next generation doesn't start until we say it does" has been Sony's key marketing phrase for the PS3. Ken Kutaragi said it at E3, although they had been using it before that.

Well, I guess since everyone that's so knowledgable about the quote doesn't know who said it or where, I looked it up myself.

From
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=PrintStory
In the context of the article it seems like the quote is saying that despite the 360's jump on them, Sony wasn't going to let MS pressure them into releasing a sub-par PS3 system earlier. Instead, they were going to release their next gen system when they feel it is ready. I don't think it was supposed to be referring to "next generation" gaming as a whole, although if taken out of context I can see how it could be interpreted that way. And if taken way, way out of context it could apply to HD discs. Hell, why stop there? I think Sony was declaring their dominion over when the next generation of people starts. You hear that expectent mothers? The next generation doesn't start until Sony says you can have babies.

There you go, digitalfreaknyc, another person who considers PS3 a BD player.

Where? I couldn't find any web links to it that weren't from Kaz Hirai at E3, not Ken Kutaragi.

It says so right there in your article that they've been saying for a while before E3:

"We have said on many occasions that the next generation doesn't start until we say it does," he said. "And today, PlayStation 3 is real. The future becomes reality."

BTW, I don't think anyone is taking that out of context when they interprete that. Sony is saying that they dictate when next generation starts. Even your article interpretes it that way (read the sentence immediately preceding the quote above).

Anyway, (I hate to moderate when I'm actively involved in a discussion) this thread keeps getting off course. Let's try to stick to the topic of dual format drives/players.

Dude...least objective? I've DONE the research. I've seen BD...many times, at this point. I'm completely open to the possibility (however slim) of it being better than HD DVD at some point. But I, as are many others on this board, am sick and tired of Sony bullshit.

Label me a fanboy if you want but it doesn't change the fact that Sony/BD has royally screwed up the format launch at this point and HD DVD is far, far ahead. In fact, if I were as big a fanboy as you say I am, I'd be out there buying every release I can. The reality is that I've bought FEWER titles than people I've convinced to buy a player.

Honestly, I think if one doesn't die off, then both are doomed to become niche formats rather than mainstream like DVD. It will probably be too confusing for Joe Six Pack to have to deal with dual format players, different format versions of some releases, some movies only in one or the other etc.

If that's really true, then cites from elsewhere shouldn't be hard to find. Yet nobody can.

The sentence immediately before is the author's take on what he said. Taking only what he said, it may be cocky and slamming Microsoft, but in a "unlike our competitor, our system is truely next gen," and not "we control the industry as a whole and dictate when new generations do and don't begin."

BTW, the phrase came from a man who once said “If someone told you that the PSP is a portable gaming device, shoot these people."
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/03/23/li...-launch-party/

You've heard it here folks, Sony wants you to shoot people for incorrectly labelling one of their systems. Unless, of course, you understand hyperbole.

He's another interview with Kaz Hirai about next-gen systems:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...6_hirai19.html
The man, and the company that he works for, sounds a lot more reasonable when he's not reduced down to a soundbite.

I wouldn't say far, far ahead, although BD has so far been immensely underwhelming. However, it's far too soon to project whether one will actually "win" the format wars, which you seem to have already done. Until there's a winner, a dual-format player would make a viable option for those looking to enter the realm of Hi-Def discs without being burdened with choosing which format and films to get, and without getting burned by buying the losing format or having to buy another player if neither format dies out.

IS DVDR too confusing for J6P? I don't see why people think of a dual-format player as "confusing." Is it confusing to have a DVD player that also plays CDs? Or a HD DVD or Blu-Ray player that plays their discs and DVDs and CDs?

As for different format versions of some releases, we already get upwards of 4 different releases of a film on DVD at one time: FS or WS and theatrical vs. unrated. Consumers have seemed savvy enough to navigate this plethora of choice, I don't see why picking between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD versions of the same film would be any different.

And really, if neither format dies and dual-format players take off, eventually studios would only release one version of their films, on the HD format of their choice, since most people will be able to play it regardless. This may turn out with studios sticking exclusively to one format, or choosing format based on space needed, provided Blu-Ray is able to successfully impliment 50GB dual-layers at some point. It'd be like a studio choosing between single or dual-layer for their title. Sure, there's significant technical differences between the two, but since the consumer can play either in their player, they don't worry about them.

The DVD+/-R format "war" didn't happen as far as J6P is concerned. It's not at all an apt comparison to this.

That might be because of the fact that dual players were released fairly shortly after.

Also because who gave a flying fuck? It was recordable media, and if you got an early DVD writer, you just went with whatever format it used. 99% of people didn't own a writer that early. Like it or not, prerecorded media is a vastly different market than recordable media. For example, BD could lose to HD DVD for prerecorded media but still be used widely for recordable media.

Also, I guarantee you most people didn't understand that there were to competing formats, anyway. Heck, for a while, when I saw DVD+Rs and DVD-Rs, I thought they were both the same thing that were used for different purposes. Nobody is going to confuse Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. The packaging on them look nothing alike. But what they MAY get confused about is which one to buy, which could lead to them holding off, which will lead to slower market penetration, which may doom both formats to being a niche. And that's no good.

Even if a good dual player comes out (and becomes the standard), will certain studios stop releasing their films on both formats? Or will companies like Warner still release to both? People will be confused on which one to buy.

I still think this is a moot point for now, though, as the BDA licensing structure disallows this kind of drive, anyway.

The same could easily be said about Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. Most people could give a fuck less about who created the format, but I think people will gravitate to the name more than anything. I think the HD-DVD name will have a lot to do about who wins this war because it's familiar brand.

I think once a dual player comes out you'll see that studios will gravitate to what format they feel more comfortable with and which costs less to produce the latter being the most important. So at this point no one knows but I have a feeling that this war is going to be one hell of a battle.