speedyray

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060709-7217.html

I am on my way out the door to work, but it looks like a positive development for the next generation.

digitalfreaknyc

Dual-format drives end nothing. All they do is make this format war even more pointless. I don't even see a reason for them.

Supermallet

In the end, I think dual-format drives may end up being the standard, sadly. Neither side is going to budge, and if both dig in, then we actually may end up with two co-existing formats until the next generation format comes along. While it wouldn't be as nice as a decisive win for HD DVD, it may be the best we get, sadly.

jiggawhat

This will end the format war. I don't know how you can honestly believe what you're saying.

Like it or not, there is going to be two existing formats as neither camp will back down. They both have too much money invested in each technology. PS3 will be the driving force behind Blu-Ray and HD-DVD obviously seems to already have a lot of support already.

I don't think it will be too long before Universal starts to support Blu-Ray and Sony and Fox supporting HD-DVD. It's inevitable. I think this is the logical step and I myself will jump on the High Def front when a dual format player becomes available.

Look at what happened with DVD+R and DVD-R, they both succeeded and have done quite well.

Although I can't say that HD in general will succeed in the long run because of other reasons, but this is better than nothing.

kvrdave

I am actually more interested in finding out if it plays BR discs well so that we can find out if all the picture quality problems being blamed on chips, etc. is just crap.

digitalfreaknyc

Exactly. One should just die.

See how a dual-format player really helps nothing? Then what happens? We still get two different discs sitting on the shelves with little to no reason to pick up the other. If we didn't have certain companies on both sides, it would be a different story.

And as for what Jigga is saying, pardon me but I think a lot of it is horseshit.

Mr. Cinema

Why is it assumed that the PS3 will drive BD sales? It's not a given that those who are purchasing a gaming system will then buy BD movies. On the other hand, when the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on's are sold, you know they will buy HD DVD movies. The PS3 gets mentioned way too much on here and the 360 HD DVD drive doesn't get mentioned enough. I have a feeling a few of those add-ons will be sold this Christmas, helping the HD DVD camp. Microsoft backing HD DVD is a good thing in my eyes. They have unlimited funds to support.

awmurray

I have to agree with Digi... Dual format drives solve nothing IMO.

Just extra cost for what? So Sony can have a proprietary format?

Think of it this way...

If (as amirm says on AVS) studios have not even been asking HD DVD for 45GB TL discs because 30GB is sufficient and they don't want to spend the extra cash on TL then what is the advantage of Blu-ray?

The extra space on Blu-ray is so Sony can continue to use Mpeg-2. When they both use VC-1 and 30GB is sufficient why would we (the consumer) want to pay extra just so we can have 2 different formats that end up delivering the exact same thing? In the rare case where they want to go over 30GB they can use the TL45s. I believe those will be available when necessary and the word is that the Toshibas/RCAs can be upgraded to support TL.... for all we know they've already silently included that in a firmware update.

I also think that even when/if dual format players come along one format will end up dying anyway. Since both will deliver the same end result, what is the advantage for a studio to produce 2 formats of the same movie when one of them will be more expensive to manufacture (i.e. Blu-ray). I just don't see how it makes sense to support both formats. When you manufacture a billion units a year, it doesn't make sense to spend even an extra few cents per unit to produce in the more expensive format since they both deliver the same thing.

kvrdave

My opinion is that it gets mentioned because Sony saw the PS2 as a huge drive in dvds taking off, so they have sold the PS3 and BR to the studios on that basis. I think most media has simply taken that and run. If you read specialty mags, you see a different story, but those are people that know more about the dynamics than some random reporter.

Just yesterday I became convinced that DVD was going to hang around for a long time. My minivan has a 7" screen with a dvd player in it. What is the point of having a high definition player for a 7" screen? Anyway, there are, and there will continue to be many tvs that make HD pointless to have, so I think we will see dvd persist much much more than any other format has after a next gen launch. That's bad for the next gen. But rather than ending up with dual formats, it would not surprise me at all to see the HD-DVD/DVD dual packaging become fairly standard.

digitalfreaknyc

And honestly, I think that's a great option if they lower prices. If BD dies and that's what we're left with, fine by me (as long as they can get 30/9 versions out, as well).

Spiky

Nice. So, in this thread, the trolling has become the main topic. I guess we should ask for the title to be changed to:

Ricoh has a dual format drive ready to demonstrate, but we don't give a shit!

digitalfreaknyc

Instead of criticizing, why don't YOU tell us why you're for it?

Spiky

We've all said it before:

Because some idiot studio (can you say Sony?) is going to put out some movies that I want, but in one format. Later, that format will lose to the other one. And the idiot studio will never redo the titles in the other format. I want a player that can handle both. And if one side doesn't "win", this will be even more of an issue.

Also, even if a dual player is 20% more than a normal player, that is still less than 100% to buy one of each.

A side benefit is it will piss off both sides of this battle, and I mean the companies, not you. They deserve to have some crap after the last 2 years of FUD and fighting.

The Bus

I'd rather buy a dual-format player than a BD-only player.

I'd rather buy the one real standard for HD on disc than buy a dual-format player.

The thing is, one of these is pure fantasy.

Qui Gon Jim

How could a dual format player cost only 20% more? It would have to be close to the cost of both pieces of hardware seperately, or at least very close to it. If BD allowed a company to churn out a player that was only 20% more that played both formats, they would have a mutiny from their hardware partners. Bad enough they are already slitting their throats with the PS3 and shifting resources there.


I just don't see a dual format player happening for a long time, at least one at a reasonable price.

kvrdave

My guess is you are using the same computer processor, etc. and that is why you save on price. You just add a drive, kind of like the 360 HD-DVD add on, which will probably only be $200 and is only 20% more than a $1,000 BR player.

HiFiLux

It seems the only folks against this development are the Bluray supporters... scared?

The bottom line is that the "format war" is crap and these hybrid players will make the format differences irrelevant - therefore helping the consumer (ie US!) to buy with confidence; the HD adoption rate will be boosted, to all our benefit...

Anyone who doesn't see that is a... well, insert your own expletive here... idiot.

These drives are GOOD. Does anyone complain about their DVD drive being able to record and play both -R and +R discs???

Stop being closed-minded, or blinded by religious, format fervour...

HiFiLux

Speak for yourself - i DO give a shit - this is better for everyone except those who are so closed minded that they have picked a format before even making a qualitative evaluation, and won't allow themselves the opportunity to look at both...

Supermallet

A cool new member calling a bunch of people in this thread [insert expletives here] idiots?

I'd welcome you to the forum, but I don't think you'll be around long enough to appreciate it...

digitalfreaknyc

Actually...everyone in this thread who is against it is an HD DVD supporter.

Who's the *expletive* idiot now, newbie?

kvrdave

SASSY!

Personally, I think the dual drive is a bad idea because it adds more confustion to Joe Six Pack and keeps the format from taking off like it should. There should be one VHS and one Betamax for a reason.

HiFiLux

Ouch! Friendly fire, friendly fire!

If I was wrong in my assesment, then I apologise to all and humbly beg to lick your boots (nothing else)

I think that dual-format players are good, as they negate the effect of the "studio exclusivity" against HD DVD and reduce consumers' concern about picking the wrong format.

I was sure I had noticed that more BD-ROM supporters seemed opposed to these dual-format players, but, as I've now stated, if I was wrong in that assessment, then I grovel uncontrollably for your collective forgiveness!



p.s. Wow - they called me a cool new member? How cool is that?

jiggawhat

Wow great trolling answer. Freak, everyone knows that you are the least objective and the most fanboyish of anyone here. At least I'm being objective not blatantly posting fanboy shit. Why don't you tell me what I said was horseshit? Since you seem to have all the answers tell me why you think Sony will back down? Because they sure as hell aren't going to create a PS3 with HD-DVD that's the last thing Sony will do.

Like I've said in other posts, I hope Sony loses this war because they weren't willing to play ball and became far too greedy for their own good, but I can't see them backing off this format. They have invested way way too much money in Blu-Ray and the PS3 to back down. I'm pretty sure they paid Fox a pretty good sum of money and also gave them the MGM business as an extra incentive because that deal just screams hush money.

Once dual format players start coming out in force, you'll see that one studio will support one format or end up supporting both depending of course on how the PS3 does. I know that the PS3 is a big factor for all the studios that's why Paramount and Warner caved in to support Blu-Ray. This was even explicitly stated by them when it was announced. That's why you aren't seeing many titles for Blu-Ray being released because they are waiting.

The problem with the xbox 360 add-on is exactly that because it's an add-on it won't be as popular unless they can make it within the range of a couple hundred dollars. I was laughing when Microsoft said that this will be the cheapest way to get on HD-DVD. Because I am doubting that it will be under $200 bucks but even then the Toshiba A1 is the same price if you add up the total of the cheapest 360 plus the addon. It's not like you can use the player without a 360.

If MS does offer a bundle HD-DVD and the 360 I'd probably buy it because I will be getting a 360 later this year for sure and I just hope they have a nice bundle decently priced. And I'm sure lots of others will be buying it.


The J6Ps of the world aren't going to have the setups of people like us and they might not notice as much of a difference like we do. They probably could care less about who wins or loses.

Supermallet

Look below your screename in your posts.

kvrdave

In his defense, I think there are bigger.

This does make me worry that we are all just becoming a slightly larger Laserdisc base. I don't personally think the PS3 will do a lot for BR. DVD was good for everyone, so the PS2 was beautiful for that purpose (despite being a poor player), but HD discs are much more of a niche product, imo. I can tell the difference in quality, but I watch on a 122" screen. If people have anything smaller than a 42" tv, the picture quality will be small enough that most won't need to have this next big thing. Just like SACD. I just hope they decide to keep making HD discs for all new releases, etc. anyway.