Points? You made actual points? Where???

I see that you don't disagree that you were a) being pedantic, and b) incorrect. As for my points, I'll just let my original post speak for itself.

While I'd prefer to see this happen as well, I just don't think it will come to pass. My guess is that Sony's going to get enough of an installed base of players/PS3s to keep the BD format alive, even if just with SL discs (though they will likely get the bugs worked out of DL discs eventually). Sony got burned with Betamax and seems determined not to let it happen again.

And I don't buy the notion that Sony will eventually relent and start releasing some of their movies on HD DVD. Even if Fox and Disney give in and start releasing on HD DVD, if one wants Sony/Columbia/Tristar movies, a BD player or a dual player will be necessary. Some of my movie "must-haves" are owned by Sony (although from what I have read in this forum I must be the only one here). Sooner or later I am going to have to get a player that can handle BD, sad to say. (But it's not going to happen until they start using a modern codec and offer decent audio options.)

It is a minority view here, but I think that HD DVD is still "on the bubble". An installed base of 20,000 or so HD DVD players is a drop in the bucket by CE standards. Toshiba could still lose this war, despite Sony's blunders. And I don't see Sony backing down for the forseeable future. Nevertheless, I have an A1 or order, so I am voting with my money for HD DVD.

I'd love to be wrong, though, and have BD die a quick death to make life simple.

Pedantic? Yes.

Incorrect? Not at all.

It may be a drop in the bucket but people are saying that there will be more HD DVD players in people's homes this year than there were DVD players in their first year of release. That's not bad for a format that wasn't even supposed to be in the same league with crap like BD.

And as far as Sony releases go, eventually they will have to start releasing on HD DVD if BD dies. I agree that they probably won't do it until the very last player is released.

Also, I don't get this idea that we "have to" buy certain titles. I mean, I love Robocop and would get it in a heartbeat on HD DVD if the quality were great. But even if I had an BD player, I wouldn't get it. If the quality sucks or isn't worth the upgrade, why bother upgrading? No one is putting a gun to your head. And at the moment, there are very few (if any) releases that are BD-only that are worthy of an upgrade.

And yet the PS3 will play Blu-Ray, DVD, and CDs, thus disproving your assertion that no upcoming Blu-ray players will support CDs.

Uncle Rico?

PS3 is a gaming system. It's not a BD player.

Exactly. At this point there's no clear winner, and Toshiba's upperhand at the moment isn't large enough to declare it the winner, or to forecast it winning anytime soon.

It took 13 years before Sony released a VHS player. Do you want to wait 13 years before buying a Sony movie in HD?

At the moment, sure. However, there's only about 60 titles out total between the two formats. Once Sony works out the bugs and there's dozens to hundreds of Blu-Ray only releases of comparable quality, waiting for one format to "die" before purchasing the films you want may become a bit tougher.

Does it play BD?

Do DVD players play CD's? Are they considered CD players or even in the same aisle as CD players?

It's a component of the PS3 but it's not what the PS3 is.

I'd have no problem with that if the quality remains consistant. Sony ain't a big deal to me. Especially with everything they've said and done in this format war thus far, I will never ever buy another Sony product again.

Again, you're making assumptions. You don't know that they WILL work out the bugs. For people to have confidence in a format that has proven ABSOLUTELY NOTHING thus far astounds me.

Yes. I don't want to wait many years before Sony throws in the towel, if they ever do. At the present time nothing of interest to me is out on BD, but I know some favorites will be coming.

I'm not talking about the crap that is out on BD now. But I really would like to have some favorites in high definition that will only be coming out on BD. And that means I will have to break down and buy a BD or dual format player if I want to see them at their best.

If licensing issues can be overcome, the Ricoh dual fomat drive should be a success.

You know what? I'd love to have some of the movies announced (and even released) thus far on BD. But that ain't gonna happen for a very long time unless studios switch and the quality is improved. Even if they were released on HD DVD in the same quality, I wouldn't buy. Just because it's coming out doesn't mean you have to buy. There are certain movies I love but just because it's coming out and it says HD doesn't mean it's quality, as we've seen.

IF and WHEN the story changes for BD, then we'll talk. Otherwise, I see no rational reason to even expect a change in their future.

I'm anxious to read reviews for the upcoming Disney titles and then later when Fox releases. So far, I wouldn't purchase anything on BD because none of the reviews I've read state they have equal picture quality of HD DVD.

Actually, a good number of DVD players have formal descriptions of DVD/CD players, so yes they're considered CD players.

Of course, DVD gets precidence because that's the most advanced format the system plays. However, for PS3, BD is the most advanced disc format it plays. Your argument would be sound if I was trying to call PS3 a DVD player.
Well, there's no standalone CD players at my local Target for DVD players to be next too, but the portable DVD players are next to the portable CD players. Anyway, the "next to" argument seems thin. The PS2 and Xbox are in different aisles, but that doesn't mean one isn't a video game system.

It's not what it only is. Just like it's doesn't only play video games, so is not just a video game system.

And if it doesn't?

So no more Sony movies ever, even on HD-DVD?

Aren't we all?

True, I don't. I do know that DVD had bugs when it first came out though; they had problems with dual-layer as well. Eventually though, those were worked out. To assume that the problems won't ever be worked out is to ignore the history of technology and advancement.

Ah, if that's the case, it would definitely be cheaper to produce. Sadly, Sony prohibits anyone with a BD license to do this. So they could make a laser that will read CD, LD, DVD, DVD-A, SACD, BD, HD DVD, HVD, AND cook you dinner, but we'll never see it because Sony would sue the hell out of them for it.

Because Sony has created another proprietary format, but unlike Betamax, it neither works (BD50?) nor is better.

Toshiba doesn't run around saying things like:

The DVD Forum is an open forum and they decided that HD DVD is the successor to DVD. Read more about the reasons in this thread: Was the DVD-Forum right?. Microsoft had similar reasons for choosing HD DVD and they seem to have hit the bullseye (read about it here):

Blu-ray is Sony's baby. They alone own all the tradmarks for Blu-ray. The ownership of the trademarks tells me everything I need to know about the openness of each format.

You can search it yourself here.

Notice the "HD-DVD" search yields (click here for result):

Which appears much more open than the "Blu-Ray" equivalent (click here for result):

So, no, I don't think we need to accept two formats just to appease Sony.

Here's to hoping that Sony continues to strangle Blu-ray to death.

I did read it. Sony (and probably Toshiba) won't allow for dual formats in the licencing terms of the technology. If either side were to waver, it would probably include a higher licencing fee for one or both formats. Who pays for that, and the R&D? The end consumer does.

Unless something drastic changes, then I see this existing only in a R&D lab, not on store shelves. Neither side gains anything by agreeing to licence a dual format player.

Blah, blah, blah. You boys do like to go on, eh?

Yet at the end of it, this thread is still not about a Sony product, so quit trying to make it seem as though it is. Sony doesn't want this product to exist. Consumers do, except for those firmly entrenched in either side of this stupid war. We do not "need to accept two formats just to appease Sony", we need to accept both to appease a great number of consumers who don't want to deal with all the BS from these 2 companies. Why is this so hard to understand?

And for the record, up above you forgot Scenario #3:
Both sides fail. Nobody wins. We are stuck with several discs that are more pointless than LD while holographic discs or something else try to fill the role of next-gen video disc.

That ain't happening.

While you fence sitters moan and groan for a dual format player, the market is speaking.

From A Better Way To Do Business:

How is it proprietary? Sony licenses out the tech the same way the DVD Forum does.

Please cite who said this and when, and the context it was in.

Technically, they decided that AOD was the successor to DVD and named it HD DVD. They basically went with the cheaper, simpler format that'd be faster to get to market. None of the reasons stated in that post refer to Sony's licensing being any worse that Toshiba's.

Again, the issues state are technical, nothing about Sony as a company. In fact, the article throws doubt at Microsoft's motives, since MS is a competitor to Sony in the video game race and doesn't support Java, a part of Blu-Ray.

Trademark ownership has nothing to do with openness of the format. Blu-Ray could've just as easily been in HD-DVD's spot had the forum went with Sony's technology instead of AOD. What would really determine the openess of the formats is the licensing of the trademark and the relavent technologies. So far, both technologies seem equally open.

So? There were way more than "tens of thousands" of Betamax players on the market when that format lost out. By Christmas there will be hundreds of thousands of PS3s capable of playing Blu-Ray in homes across America, yet I'm not willing to hand the title of victor to them yet.

Not to pick a fight, but if you're that out of touch you really need to follow this stuff more closely.

Besides we're definitely into territory that belongs in the 'free for all' thread.

Suffice it to say we have different views on dual format drives/players, Sony and Blu-ray. I'm not trying to convince you.

Now off to buy/watch more HD DVDs. That's the only vote that really counts.

As much as I'd like to see #1 happen as well, it's not a likely scenario. Sure you can dream about it ... like how you dream about winning the lotto. We need to all accept the fact that both will survive (unlike the VHS/Betamax war). Given that both will survive, I look forward to the first successful dual format player. That's what I'll be buying.

Plus, you can't just blame Sony for BD. Apple, LG, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, Disney, WB, and a bunch of others all think that BD is a good idea.

I am not yet convinced.

Though it wouldn't bother me, personally.

Provided the current BR releases are done again with some semblence of high definition video quality.