bboisvert

Exactly. Say HD-DVD fails miserably, but you bought 30 titles in that format because you have a "universal" player.

A year later, HD-DVD is off the market and they are no longer making players to handle the discs. Then, a couple of years later, you want to replace/upgrade your HD player. What do you do? You'd have to either keep the old player around to play those 30 titles, or replace them all out with new versions.

The universal player is a neat idea, but it still doesn't solve the issue of the format war, public confusion/apathy because of it, and the danger that one of these formats will crash and burn. I also imagine that the price for this player will be through the roof, adding insult to injury when one (or both) of these formats die.


There's still time -- both sides have to get back to the table, share profits, and combine formats. Use the HD-DVD name and use the Blu-Ray specs. Done -- and the money will continue to roll in for the next decade or two. Everybody wins.

Or, they can bitch and moan, delay their products, issue silly press releases explaining why their non-existant product is better than the other guy's non-existant product, eventually launch something that is confusing and not what anyone wants, and then sit around wondering why they aren't making money and are out of a job.

Spiky

I don't know. I can still buy machines and media for LD, turntable, DAT, Betamax, cassette deck, 8 track, reel-reel tape deck, minidisc, SACD, CD....NES, SNES, Sega, Intellivision, Pong, 3DO.....

Now, only half of those would have new things available today, but they are still out there. Name something that has truly gone away. I think I can even still buy 110 film, and that was CRAP.

DthRdrX

I honestly don't think it is neccessary for the BR group to deal with Toshiba anymore. Considering that the HD-dvd studios are pulling back and keeping quiet, and that Hd-dvd was staying low profile at Cedia, I'd say the format never gets released as a prerecorded format period.

zakiwon

Playstation 3 the nail in HD-DVD's coffin

bboisvert

I'm not saying that it would "go away"... I'm saying that if the format dies after a year or so, they will stop making players (and, if it crashes and burns that bad they will -- try to buy a new Divx player at Circuit City today).

And, if that happens, when you upgrade your player, you're forced to keep the old one just to play a few discs on the 'failed' format. That's annoying as hell. (And having to upgrade those titles to the format that made it would be equally annoying.)

I'm just saying that a universal player isn't an ideal situation for consumers if one of those 2 formats (or, dear Lord, maybe *both* of them) fail.


From a marketing perspective, I think it would be ideal for the BR group to get the rights to the DVD name (owned by Toshiba). HD-DVD is easier to market to people than "Blu-Ray". And there's the obvious advantage of getting Warner on board, etc.

But, you're right. Things are looking a lot more grim for the HD-DVD camp than they were a few months ago.

Dan Average

Further hair-splitting: 60 percent of PS2 owners are over 18. It's possible a fair chunk of that 60 percent are parents who actually bought the system for their kids (you'd think that would be figured into the calculations, but who knows), but the number roughly correlates with general industry trends (55 percent of "frequent console gamers" are over 18).

Iron_Giant

I own an XBox, but the next game station/box I buy will be the one that plays "HD DVD" (Blue Ray or HD-DVD). PS3 looks to be my next Game Station, so XBox 360 is going to lose my money.

PS3 truely is one of the bestest reason that BlueRay will win. Though it would drive my wife crazy hearing the games play in the living room instead of the boys room.

Josh Z

It amazes me that people think the PS3 will be a deciding factor towards Blu-Ray's success. Have any of you ever tried watching a DVD in a PS2?

Videogame consoles make lousy movie playback devices. Just as PS2 is a terrible DVD player, I expect no better from Blu-Ray on the PS3.

Dazed

I used my PS2 for 3 years as my only DVD Player. I didnt see any problems with it. you put a dvd in and watch a movie. It did its job well

The remote control was a bit fiddly but who cares, so are some of the remotes from many "Real" DVD players.

The PS2 introduced me to DVDS, maybe the PS3 will introduce me to Blu-Ray. Only time will tell....

DthRdrX

It doesn't matter if it isn't as good as a stand alone player. The simple fact is that no matter how good or bad the PS2 was at dvd viewing it help push a lot more software out the door.

chipmac

IMO the PS2 did help make DVD more mainstream but I don't think we can say the same for the PS3 and Blu-ray discs. The reason is that many who are going to buy a PS3 will still be using it with a SDTV and not a HDTV so they'll still be renting and buying SD DVDs. If this is true it won't push the sales of Blu-Ray movies into the mainstream the way SD DVDs and the PS2 did. On the other hand it seems like many of the sales of the original Xbox went to owners of HDTVs because of it's ability OOB to player progressive 480 and HD games. If MS had included HD DVD support in the Xbox 360 they could have helped push the market for HD DVD.

Rubix

just because someone has an sdtv doesn't mean they won't buy blu-ray. they will still play on their old tvs you know, except now when they get a new hdtv their blu-ray movies will be "upgraded" automatically in quality.

i didn't own a receiver when i got into dvd. but several years later i did and i was able to go back and listen to my old dvds in 5.1.

Josh Z

For someone with an SDTV, Blu-Ray will offer them no improvement over regular DVD but will cost more. I can see a certain small population of people saying, "I might someday buy an HDTV, so I better start buying Blu-Ray discs now", but I doubt the majority of the average public has any such thing on their mind and will continue to buy the cheaper option.

Josh Z

So long as picture quality isn't at all important to you, yeah I suppose the PS2 is functional as a DVD player. If you've ever tried to connect the PS2 to a big-screen and watch a DVD, however, it is shamefully substandard compared to even $50 DVD players.

Blu-Ray, and all high definition discs for that matter, is targeted specifically for consumers who care about picture quality. If they didn't, they wouldn't need high definition in the first place. If the PS3 is as poor a Blu-Ray player as the PS2 is as a DVD player, it's useless for anything but videogames.

bboisvert

The rumored entry-level price for Blu-ray players is $1000. Do you honestly expect that there is a significant number of people out there who will shell out that kind of cash, plus the extra money for Blu-Ray discs (which are pretty much guaranteed to carry a premium price when compared to standard DVD)... when they don't even have an HDTV?

There may be a handful of these people out there, but I doubt there are many. Most people will be blissfully happy with their current DVDs, and won't even be aware of the existance of "blu-ray" until they aquire an HDTV.

Rubix

no not really. i was responding to the post directly above mine talking about using a ps3 and a sdtv and still buying dvds and not blu-rays.

chipmac

Rubix read what I said again. I'll try to put it another way. I said that the purchase of a PS3 for owners of a SDTV won't help make the Blu-Ray movie standard more mainstream or the accepted HD movie standard. People keep saying that the fact that the PS3 also plays Blu-Ray movies will help solidify it's dominance over HD DVD and I don't see that being the case. If they own an SDTV and buy a PS3, the only reason to buy Blu-ray movies would be for any extra content that isn't on the SD DVD release. As Josh said they'll gain nothing from buying Blu-ray movies as far as the movie content goes since it will still be viewed as SD video. Some people justified their PS2 purchase by saying that they'd use it as a DVD player also and this did help DVD become more mainstream and introduced many people to the format. You can't say that a person that owns an SDTV will justify their purchase of a PS3 by saying it can also be used as a Blu-Ray disc player.

Why would someone with an SDTV buy a $1000 Blu-Ray player to play back SD DVD when they can buy a SD DVD player for $100? There might be some that would buy one if in the near future they saw themselves also upgrading to an HDTV. But I think it's safe to say that the majority of PS3 buyers will still use it on an SDTV for PS3 gaming only and not for its Blu-Ray movie playback abilities.

Josh H

However, it's not a give that the PS3 will be as poor a blu-ray player as the PS2 was a DVD player.

The X-box is a pretty decent DVD player, so consoles can be pretty functional.

And of course, most people that use a console as a DVD player don't care much about picture quality anyway, so it's a way to help sales to the casual movie fan.

But the main point is that these people probably won't have HDTVs anytime soon, and I agree and that's why HD-DVDs or Blu-Ray will not be more than niche market items. Too many people just don't give a shit about picture quality.

Josh Z

Look at Sony's track record.

Not by videophile standards, it isn't.

That's exactly my point. High Definition isn't targeted to casual movie fans who don't care about picture quality. Those people already have DVD serving them perfectly well. High Definition is targeted towards videophiles who want the absolute best picture quality they can get on their expensive HDTV sets, and it is very doubtful that a PS3 will provide them with that.

Josh H

I was basically agreeing with you. The PS3 isn't going to be a BIG factor, it will just help with the few oddballs that have an HDTV but don't care THAT much about picture quality. You know, the joe six packs that just have to have the latests and greatest thing to brag to their friends.

Personally, I don't care about pic quality and hate videophile that care more about the tech shit thatn just enjoying movies.

I have NO plans on buying an HDTV or HD DVD/blu ray for a LONG time. I probably won't buy an HDTV until either my TV breaks or I can no longer get cable or satellite in SD.

So I'm very happy that most people don't care and only the videophiles wanting to max out picture quality on their expensive HDTVs will be early adopters tickles me pink as I don't see myself being forced to upgrade due to not getting good DVD versions of the films I want happening anytime soon, if ever. Especially with the format war and phone line rumors making it an even steeper road for these formats to climb

sracer

The PS3 may not be a big factor from a "consumer-pull" perspective, but from a "studio-push" view, PS3 will help "sell" Blu-Ray to studios. With the PS3, Sony can claim 100,000's (millions?) of Blu-Ray players in the market. Those are the kind of numbers that will get attention of "the suits".

Well, that's why they're called VIDEOphiles and not CINEphiles.

The price of HTDV direct view tube TVs have really dropped. A quality PS DVD player properly connected to an HDTV tube is truly breathtaking. (Quality is BETTER than my Cable's HDTV programming) My brother was all set to buy a Rear-projection HDTV until he saw my Progressive Scan DVD / HDTV tube setup. He's sold on quality over size.

I will be avoiding BR/HD until only one standard exists. And if they do end up duking it out in the marketplace, I'll wait for the format that replaces THOSE.

'cause I'm not going to be a chump and buy one or the other (or a hybrid player).

Josh H

The PS2 market base is around 60 million world wide last I checked. The PS3 will almost certainly do similar business, but of course it took the PS2 5+ years to get to that level.

jiggawhat

I still think this is way to early to be releasing the HD discs to the public. I think HD discs will not be very popular except for people like us.

Qui Gon Jim

This is a very disputable opinion. I know I sound like a broken record here, but $500 is way too much for the all-important "X-Mas gift" category. Hell, $500 is too much even for some console faithful.

No system priced more than $300 has EVER been successful. NOT ONE.

Josh Z

I agree. Considering the number of high-end functions Sony is trying to cram into this one machine, and also considering that Sony themselves (the kings of overpricing) have explicitly stated that the PS3 will be "very expensive" even by their own standards, I would not be suprised if it retails for $800 or more. Remember, they've said that they don't want this unit to be thought of as a videogame console. They want it to be a high-tech status symbol that people drool over and save for months to buy. That's their goal, and if they follow through with that strategy there is no way it will ever have the market penetration of the PS2, and they may not even want it to if they can also keep milking the PS2 cow for general consumers at the same time.