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Houston, We Have A Problem...

Old 08-30-18, 01:24 PM
  #126  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Bullshit. NO ONE views, "Bigot," as a positive. Certainly no one here. Come on...
Again...

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Just like bigot. At least for Trump, and all those that contiue to support his views after they were exposed as racist, homophobic, etc. Because why else why would they continue to support bigotry?
BTW: Did you miss this question or just realize the answer says a lot about the lack of good faith you display in these exchanges?

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
So is your goal to squash all non left views?

How about moderate views that are more in the middle? Those people are getting jumped on, too.
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
I don’t think echo chamber is the right phrase. When the Republican Party is electing people and enacting policies that even lifelong conservatives are attacking, the attacks on Trump in our forum are coming from the left and the right. I’m a current and lifelong Republican who has never voted Democratic in my life, but even the worst Democrat is better than a Trumpist imho. So again, I think an echo chamber of sorts is to be expected in certain situations. This is an obvious one.
Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Did you completely skip Trevor's post?
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Old 08-30-18, 01:28 PM
  #127  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Bullshit. NO ONE views, "Bigot," as a positive.
Because I dislike absolutist statements...

https://www.pulseresources.org/new/t...rd-bigot.6613/
BIGOT IS A BADGE OF HONOUR NOT OF SHAME - if it was good enough for the Protestant Martyrs who were burned alive rather than give in to Popery it is good enough for us their descendants today.
Of course, he's basing that on a likely incorrect etymology of the word:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bigot

Steve Bannon told people to wear the terms racist, xenophobe, and nativist as a "badge of honor," though not specifically term bigot.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/stev...ry?id=53656814
"Let them call you racist. Let them call you xenophobes. Let them call you nativists," he said. “Wear it as a badge of honor. Because every day, we get stronger and they get weaker.”
Also....
https://imgur.com/X6zYQO2
https://www.reddit.com/r/insanepeopl...d_happy_bigot/


However, I think this discussion of which names are worse is just distracted nitpicking. Namecalling is namecalling, and shouldn't be tolerated.
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Old 08-30-18, 01:32 PM
  #128  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
However, I think this discussion of which names are worse is just distracted nitpicking. Namecalling is namecalling, and shouldn't be tolerated.

I would think people could agree on that, but as you can see above, not so much.

Labels conservatives don't like - Don't you dare!
Labels for liberals - Stop being such a wuss!

Last edited by hdnmickey; 08-30-18 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 08-30-18, 01:37 PM
  #129  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Not really. There are some people here who will not take me seriously anymore because, for them, however wrong they are, those labels stuck.

So often when I post on a sensitive topic past accusations are brought up as a way to shoot me down. So, yeah, my character has been - unfairly, and based on incorrect assumptions - destroyed to an extent.

There are people here who really, genuinely seem to believe I'm a racist and a sexist. People who know me in real life know better, but some people here don't.
How do you know what they "genuinely" feel about you? And are you saying past behavior shouldn't affect how you're treated now?
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Old 08-30-18, 01:47 PM
  #130  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
How do you know what they "genuinely" feel about you? And are you saying past behavior shouldn't affect how you're treated now?
I know where you're going there - but I'm not in the same kind of position as James Gunn.

And my past behavior was misinterpreted and misunderstood, Gunn's wasn't. He crossed a line that, for many people, once you cross it there's no going back (not without a major PR rehabilitation project).

I've never crossed a line like that. I said men are bigger, stronger, and faster than women, therefore are better suited to heavy duty physical activities. Wow. How sexist - state facts. But that's just how some people interpreted that - as sexist, and they accused me of that (and misogyny).

And I support continuity and maintaining the image of James Bond as we've known him since 1953! I've stated that a black man cannot play the same character as a white man and have him be the same person. Just like I couldn't play T'Challa, Idris Elba can't play the exact same Bond as Sean Connery or Daniel Craig. He can play a DIFFERENT Bond, but not the same one. And for some people that makes me a racist (and I was accused of being a racist for that, too).

There are people that are not going to let go of that stuff. It's absurd, but they won't. The sad part is there is nothing to let go - nothing I posted was outrageous or incorrect. But since those things and others are repeatedly brought up when I post there are clearly people who disagree.

So, my whole point with this thread stands more than ever - at a time when the political climate is as ugly and contentious as it is we have to tighten up the moderation on this board to make sure WE don't become the topics, and to make sure that personal attacks are not allowed.
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Old 08-30-18, 01:48 PM
  #131  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Just my two cents, but any judgement and feelings I have towards various posters on this forum are because of the content of their posts, a recurring pattern of behavior, and my own observations. Not because of specific labels that another poster might have used.

Last edited by fumanstan; 08-30-18 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 08-30-18, 01:50 PM
  #132  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
And then the personal attacks come as the arguments get ratcheted up. People get, "Called out," vigorously for their views, and then they vigorously defend themselves, and things snowball from there.
You do realize this happens with apolitical threads too, right? I'm involved in the Star Wars: The Last Jedi reviews thread right now, and people can get... passionate with their opinions. I had one person allude to me being a coward because I don't use my full name in my username. I shrugged it off.

Interestingly, there's more people that like the film in that discussion than don't, so the dissenters periodically like to throw out the argument that their viewpoints are being "dismissed" or "ganged-up on." These aren't political views, just ones related to story, character, tone, etc. I have to explain that challenging their view isn't the same as dismissing it, and they don't have some sort of right to post negative opinions without being challenged.

Namecalling and abuse is crossing the line, but before that point I don't want mods jumping in just because the discussion is getting vigorous. You seem to be arguing for mods shutting down any discussion where many people are disagreeing with a particular viewpoint, which isn't their job.
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Old 08-30-18, 02:04 PM
  #133  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
I know where you're going there - but I'm not in the same kind of position as James Gunn...
Moving my reply to the bulk of your post to the Political thread:

https://forum.dvdtalk.com/religion-p...al-thread.html

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
There are people that are not going to let go of that stuff...
Again, do you have any evidence of people dismissing you based on a label given to you, not because of flawed arguments you've made in the past?

Edit: Not going into specifics about your experiences, but you're free to make whatever statements/arguments you want, and people are free to say that those statements/arguments are racist, sexist, whatever. You are then free to counter and explain why you don't think what you said is racist, sexist, whatever. However, you don't have the right to say racist, sexist, or any other objectionable thing and deny people the right to say "I find that racist, sexist, etc." They shouldn't call you specifically those things, but they can characterize your thoughts however they interpret them as being.

Last edited by Jay G.; 08-30-18 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 08-30-18, 02:08 PM
  #134  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

First, thank you, story! And secondly, yes, there is a tightrope to walk of allowing people to voice their passion and stepping in when things become TOO heated.
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Old 08-30-18, 02:08 PM
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
Again, do you have any evidence of people dismissing you based on a label given to you, not because of flawed arguments you've made in the past?
Well, when they bring up or hint at the label before making any kind of substantive response, what do you think?

Again, that's why when things start getting PERSONAL the Mods need to step in.

WE are not the topics. Unless we make ourselves the topics (if someone wants to put himself up as a topic, then fine, but other than that, no).
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Old 08-30-18, 02:27 PM
  #136  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by IBJoel View Post
First, thank you, story! And secondly, yes, there is a tightrope to walk of allowing people to voice their passion and stepping in when things become TOO heated.
I think story is my new best friend. Good stuff and I appreciate their tone.
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Old 08-30-18, 02:29 PM
  #137  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Well, when they bring up or hint at the label before making any kind of substantive response, what do you think?
Do you have an example? Are you sure they're hinting at the label you think, if they never state it?

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Again, that's why when things start getting PERSONAL the Mods need to step in.
No disagreement there.
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Old 08-30-18, 02:33 PM
  #138  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Here we go - just now...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Biden could easily beat Trump.
Originally Posted by Howiefan View Post
Because he was a man. Women belong back in the kitchen serving their husband.
Originally Posted by Goonies85 View Post
Don't worry, B5Erik supports that position. That very, very "progressive" position.
That is a subtle, but clear, accusation of being a sexist if not a full on misogynist. Subtle, but clear. That's what is clearly implied there.

Oh, but wait, he didn't flat out say, "Sexist," or, "Misogynist," so you're just being overly sensitive, blah, blah, blah.

That's how things start. That's how threads get out of control and turn to shit.
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Old 08-30-18, 02:47 PM
  #139  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

I will say that for my part I will try to do a better job at hopping on the reported posts in a more timely manner. There was a period of time where the feature was being abused and it was a bit exhaustive trying to sort out the real issues from the folks using it as an "I Disagree" button.
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Old 08-30-18, 02:54 PM
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
I will say that for my part I will try to do a better job at hopping on the reported posts in a more timely manner. There was a period of time where the feature was being abused and it was a bit exhaustive trying to sort out the real issues from the folks using it as an "I Disagree" button.
Which is a part of the reason why I haven't used that button in the past.

On my board we get spammed with that stuff (from the Report Post button), to the point where I've just told people to PM me when there's a real problem.
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Old 08-30-18, 03:03 PM
  #141  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Here we go - just now....
Well you just reminded me why I never go into the Political forums.

Does it happen outside there though? You've been arguing it's spreading outside the Political forums. I personally haven't been seeing that occurring.
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Old 08-30-18, 03:05 PM
  #142  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

It's been happening in a couple places: the GoG3 thread and the James Bond thread. We have a political thread for the James Gunn issue, but I'm not sure we need one for the Bond discussion if people just take it down a notch (or two).
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Old 08-30-18, 03:06 PM
  #143  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Yeah, I too will be in no hurry to use the report button if there is never any response to my reports. If over reporting is an issue IMO the only way to fix it is to give feedback on how the posts in question were not an issue.
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Old 08-30-18, 03:10 PM
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
It's been happening in a couple places: the GoG3 thread and the James Bond thread. We have a political thread for the James Gunn issue, but I'm not sure we need one for the Bond discussion if people just take it down a notch (or two).
I haven't been in the Bond thread before this thread started up, but from my experience in the GotG3 thread, the statements and disagreements there started up based on what B5Erik stated in that thread, not any pre-assigned labels.
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Old 08-30-18, 03:54 PM
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
I haven't been in the Bond thread before this thread started up, but from my experience in the GotG3 thread, the statements and disagreements there started up based on what B5Erik stated in that thread, not any pre-assigned labels.
Uh, huh. It's all my fault.

It couldn't possibly be that other people overreacted, could it?

Nah. That's just crazy talk.
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Old 08-30-18, 05:22 PM
  #146  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
I haven't been in the Bond thread before this thread started up, but from my experience in the GotG3 thread, the statements and disagreements there started up based on what B5Erik stated in that thread, not any pre-assigned labels.
Really. Had nothing to do with a director making pedophilic statements on a Twitter account or some no-name freaky dude named Mike C? Or that members of this forum were aligning themselves with the "alt-righty then" cult associated with Mike C?

What exactly did B5Erik say to make you feel like the pedophile statements were taken...out of context and were misleading.

I remember going to that thread, and reading about people complaining the Alt Right was taking over, and members of this forum were no better, were sucking the political phallic pole of Mike C., and that we were completely out of line with having issues with a guy talking about underage kids' private parts...who was a director of a Disney sponsored movie series.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 08-30-18 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 08-30-18, 06:02 PM
  #147  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Deleting this portion of my previous response. Since it doesn't involve me, I'll stay out of it.

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Uh, huh. It's all my fault.

It couldn't possibly be that other people overreacted, could it?

Nah. That's just crazy talk.
I'm reminded of this:



Is blaming everyone else any better? I think posters should take some accountability as to what they post and how it is conveyed. Are people actually "ganging up" just to be jerks? Or did you actually write something that was going to incite a response from many individuals? Maybe from your perspective it wasn't intended to be inflammatory and made sense, or you thought more people would agree with you in the context of the thread, but that's not necessarily on everyone else because they disagree.

For instance, a year later I remember you responsible for writing about it being unrealistic that female Ghostbusters could carry proton packs. That has nothing to do with labels, others calling you sexist, or anything else relating to other posters. I just flat out think its a terrible generalization and was a ridiculous statement to argue for.

It's not anyone else's fault that it stands out to me individually.

Last edited by fumanstan; 08-30-18 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 08-30-18, 06:07 PM
  #148  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Uh, huh. It's all my fault.
I'm not saying it's your fault, I'm saying the discussion clearly progressed, or devolved, depending on your point of view, from what was being discussed. It's not like you made a statement, and suddenly someone pointed out you were called a name in another thread, and thus your point was invalid.

Again, this is specifically in regards to you claiming that certain namecalling in specific threads has become like a Scarlet Letter on you, following you around the forum and preventing you from engaging in discussion. I personally didn't see that in the GotG 3 thread.

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
What exactly did B5Erik say to make you feel like the pedophile statements were taken...out of context and were misleading.
Specific discussion of that thread I'll relegate to the James Gunn Political thread. You can ask me there.
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Old 08-31-18, 09:43 AM
  #149  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
I'm not saying it's your fault, I'm saying the discussion clearly progressed, or devolved, depending on your point of view, from what was being discussed. It's not like you made a statement, and suddenly someone pointed out you were called a name in another thread, and thus your point was invalid.

Again, this is specifically in regards to you claiming that certain namecalling in specific threads has become like a Scarlet Letter on you, following you around the forum and preventing you from engaging in discussion. I personally didn't see that in the GotG 3 thread.


Specific discussion of that thread I'll relegate to the James Gunn Political thread. You can ask me there.
That's fair. Feel free to PM me as I don't participate there anymore.
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Old 08-31-18, 12:48 PM
  #150  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
There are some people here who will not take me seriously anymore because, for them, however wrong they are, those labels stuck.
For the record, I don't take you seriously because of your posting history (James Bond can't be black! Mary Jane can't be black! Johnny Storm can't be black! Ghostbusters can't be women! The Rocketeer can't be a black woman!) and not because of how other posters have characterized you.

That, and your irrational love of KISS.
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