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Houston, We Have A Problem...

Old 08-30-18, 10:15 AM
  #101  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

I don’t think echo chamber is the right phrase. When the Republican Party is electing people and enacting policies that even lifelong conservatives are attacking, the attacks on Trump in our forum are coming from the left and the right. I’m a current and lifelong Republican who has never voted Democratic in my life, but even the worst Democrat is better than a Trumpist imho. So again, I think an echo chamber of sorts is to be expected in certain situations. This is an obvious one.
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Old 08-30-18, 10:22 AM
  #102  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
I can remember when the board seemed to be the opposite. When "politics" got spun off into its own board about fifteen years ago during the invasion and occupation of Iraq, the nature of the board was mostly conservative and pro-war, and it was the folks on the liberal side who would get piled on and attacked.

Kind of a fine line there. If you say that someone's beliefs and opinions are communist or racist, then you're pretty much saying they are a communist or racist.

As far as the tenor of political debate, there's no doubt that it has coarsened, but that's the way it is in the real world outside. There's a lot of anger and resentment out there, and it's been cultivated for decades. I mean, Jesus... watch Fox News, listen to talk radio, read political matter on twitter and facebook. It shouldn't be surprising that it's spilling in over here.

I was going to basically type the same thing, so I'll just quote your post and add that what I find to be the real sticking point is that people that hold bigoted views believe they have the right to free speech. WHich in their minds means they shouldn't be told those views are bigoted, and thus are acitng like bigots. Look not further than the recent posts here arguing that Nazi's aren't that much of a problem because they've stopped "murdering" people.

Which also takes me to my next point. Things are largely the way they are because simple things like belvieving in equal rights has become "politcal". Well, only for those that stand on a poltical platform that rallies against those things. And to have a form of insult for those that dare speak up against their poltical platform, they make up new insults like "SJW" or "snowflake".

If the mods are going to start giving into the wishes of those expecting their bigotry not to be called what it is, they're should also put and end to the labels of "SJW" and the like. Otherwise they're just letting it all reverse back to the folks that decided to make equal rights for human beings a poltical battle rather than something that just is because it's the way it should be in this country.
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Old 08-30-18, 10:27 AM
  #103  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
I don’t think echo chamber is the right phrase. When the Republican Party is electing people and enacting policies that even lifelong conservatives are attacking, the attacks on Trump in our forum are coming from the left and the right. I’m a current and lifelong Republican who has never voted Democratic in my life, but even the worst Democrat is better than a Trumpist imho. So again, I think an echo chamber of sorts is to be expected in certain situations. This is an obvious one.
Exactly. I've also posted before that if the choice is between an echo chamber, and a forum full pf more Trump like bigotry, I'll learn to deal with echos.

But given that we still lhave the same extreme right blog posts happening multiple times per day, the poltics forum is still far from anything that resembles an echo chamber.

Last edited by hdnmickey; 08-30-18 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 08-30-18, 10:37 AM
  #104  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

The only thing I'm going to say in this thread is that I think everyone should read story's post several times, reflect on it, and take it to heart. Discussion on this forum would be a lot better if we all did that.
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Old 08-30-18, 10:53 AM
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
If the mods are going to start giving into the wishes of those expecting their bigotry not to be called what it is, they're should also put and end to the labels of "SJW" and the like. Otherwise they're just letting it all reverse back to the folks that decided to make equal rights for human beings a poltical battle rather than something that just is because it's the way it should be in this country.
So you equate the term, "SJW," with the term, "Racist?"

Honestly, you know damned well that once someone is labeled a racist or a sexist it's over for them. Their personal character is destroyed, they have zero credibility as a human being, and they might as well leave the board.

Labeling someone as a SJW doesn't have that kind of impact. Not even close. Hell, for some people it's a badge of honor (wanting, "Social Justice," even in extreme ways, doesn't have the negative connotation that being a racist does).

Labeling ANYONE in that way, on a personal character basis, cannot be allowed on any functioning board, or the board will end up with only one group - the group with the greater numbers in the first place.

Personal attacks, including things like, "Anyone who believes that is a racist," cannot be allowed.

There is no need to jump all over a board member just because you don't agree with his posts. That holds true for either side. No one has to be an asshole about, "Challenging," someone's point of view and harassing that person.

We can have civil discourse. We SHOULD have civil discourse. But we don't.
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Old 08-30-18, 10:54 AM
  #106  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Exactly. I've also posted before that fi the choice is between an echo chamber, and a forum full of more Trump like bigotry, I'll learn to deal with echos.
So is your goal to squash all non left views?

How about moderate views that are more in the middle? Those people are getting jumped on, too.
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Old 08-30-18, 10:56 AM
  #107  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Labeling of posters is a no-no, period. Whether you call somebody a "jerk" or a "nazi" it isn't allowed. There isn't a degree that is "okay".
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Old 08-30-18, 10:57 AM
  #108  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
If you're in a thread with mostly liberals and you post a conservative view, expect a lot of pushback.
Why? I thought liberals were supposed to be tolerant and open to different views.

Now, if you're talking about truly offensive comments, then, absolutely, there should be pushback. But if you're just talking about differences of opinions or philosophies? No, there should not be aggressive, harassing pushback, just civil disagreements.

It shouldn't devolve into attacks or harassment, but they're as entitled to their views as you are. The point shouldn't be to try and encourage more of a particular viewpoint at some misguided goal of "balance," but to foster an environment where even someone with an unpopular viewpoint has the opportunity to state it, and then defend it.
No board member should have to put up with harassment.
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Old 08-30-18, 10:58 AM
  #109  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Labeling of posters is a no-no, period. Whether you call somebody a "jerk" or a "nazi" it isn't allowed. There isn't a degree that is "okay".
Well, I've been labeled a racist, sexist, misogynist, liar, alt-right, and the people who did it are still around...
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Old 08-30-18, 11:02 AM
  #110  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
So you equate the term, "SJW," with the term, "Racist?"
Well, given that it's also directed at those that champion for equal rights for gays, or even just women, I going to go with... no.

Labeling someone as a SJW doesn't have that kind of impact. Not even close. Hell, for some people it's a badge of honor (wanting, "Social Justice," even in extreme ways, doesn't have the negative connotation that being a racist does).
Maybe, if you ignore all the like minded people that agree with those bigoted views. To those people, the others that dare to support equal rights end up in the same damged character boat once they are labled as a "SJW". If you think it's any different it's probaly because you have returned to only caring about what affects you.
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Old 08-30-18, 11:06 AM
  #111  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
So is your goal to squash all non left views?

How about moderate views that are more in the middle? Those people are getting jumped on, too.
Did you completely skip Trevor's post?
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Old 08-30-18, 11:08 AM
  #112  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Labeling of posters is a no-no, period. Whether you call somebody a "jerk" or a "nazi" it isn't allowed. There isn't a degree that is "okay".
I have yet to see anybody throwing around SJW, and other derogatory labels for liberals, even warned to cut it off. Despite many reports of those posts. Just saying...

Last edited by hdnmickey; 08-30-18 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 08-30-18, 11:11 AM
  #113  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
I have yet to see anybody throwing around SJW, and other derogatory labels for liberals even even warned to cut it off. Despite many reports of those posts. Just saying...
That's probably because SJW doesn't have the negative character connotation that racist does. For a lot of people it's a POSITIVE.
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Old 08-30-18, 11:22 AM
  #114  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
That's probably because SJW doesn't have the negative character connotation that racist does. For a lot of people it's a POSITIVE.
Just like bigot. At least for Trump, and all those that contiue to support his views after they were exposed as racist, homophobic, etc. Because why else why would they continue to support bigotry?
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Old 08-30-18, 11:25 AM
  #115  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
That's probably because SJW doesn't have the negative character connotation that racist does.
99% of the time (yes, THAT often) it's used as a pejorative and generalization about anyone to the left of the person using it. It's absolutely meant to minimize their views to irrelevant and unworthy of a measured civil response.

It's a garbage title used to dismiss the poster instead of the post. It's not as "severe" as racist or whatever but it's still proof positive that it's being used to silence someone being disagreed with.
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Old 08-30-18, 11:27 AM
  #116  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

This whole forum is becoming a Politics dumping ground. Why don't you invade Book Talk?

Or change the site name to PoliticTalk.
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Old 08-30-18, 11:36 AM
  #117  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by TomOpus View Post
This whole forum is becoming a Politics dumping ground. Why don't you invade Book Talk?

Or change the site name to PoliticTalk.
Whose fault is it that movies, TV shows, that features non-straight white males in leading roles are often labeled as a political movie/show and rallied against as such? Serious question because I think that is answer many people seem to be looking for lately.

Last edited by hdnmickey; 08-30-18 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 08-30-18, 11:40 AM
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Why? I thought liberals were supposed to be tolerant and open to different views.
Not when said views stem from exclusion and hate. Liberals have no obligation to be open and/or tolerant to all viewpoints.
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Old 08-30-18, 11:54 AM
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
So you equate the term, "SJW," with the term, "Racist?"

Honestly, you know damned well that once someone is labeled a racist or a sexist it's over for them. Their personal character is destroyed, they have zero credibility as a human being, and they might as well leave the board.
Didn't you just state that you were called racist? Has your personal character been destroyed, with zero credibility as a human being? Name calling is bad, but you're delving into hyperbole here.

Originally Posted by B5Erik View Post
Why? I thought liberals were supposed to be tolerant and open to different views.
I meant "pushback" in terms of people offering opposing opinions, and challenging the viewpoint. And people take the "liberals are supposed to be tolerant" to absurd degrees. Bigotry and hate don't need to be tolerated. The cries of "you're intolerant of my intolerance" is a false equivalence.

People on the forum should be tolerant to the point of allowing other people to speak, without name calling or harassment. But they don't have to just accept any and all viewpoints without disagreement. Yes, you can post your argument, and then I can post mine. And if 5 other people disagree with you as well, so be it.

Again, I've stated I've been the lone dissenter in a thread before. Is it lonely? Yes. Can it be frustrating to be the only one arguing a certain viewpoint, while 4 other people disagree with each of my posts, while agreeing and complementing each others? Sure. But that's not harassment, and not something that's the job of the mods to fix. If I can't change any minds, or find a common ground, or nobody else comes in to agree with me, I have to continually decide whether to continue posting, or to say my piece and move on.
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Old 08-30-18, 12:42 PM
  #120  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
99% of the time (yes, THAT often) it's used as a pejorative and generalization about anyone to the left of the person using it. It's absolutely meant to minimize their views to irrelevant and unworthy of a measured civil response.

It's a garbage title used to dismiss the poster instead of the post. It's not as "severe" as racist or whatever but it's still proof positive that it's being used to silence someone being disagreed with.
Yes, I believe in social justice, but I feel that most people using the term SJW intend to do it in a sneering, condescending way. At least that's how I read it in the context of their other words.
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Old 08-30-18, 01:08 PM
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by davidh777 View Post
Yes, I believe in social justice, but I feel that most people using the term SJW intend to do it in a sneering, condescending way. At least that's how I read it in the context of their other words.
You are correct, but it's nothing more than saying, "Liberal on steroids," or, "Enhanced Liberal."

It is nowhere near the negative connotation that, "Racist," has. And we've seen several people, including me, called racists here. That's a far worse thing, because racist views - truly racist views - are vile and despicable, and the people who hold those views are either woefully ignorant, or are just horrible people.

I don't think calling someone a SJW is even on the same plane as calling someone a racist.

As I've noted previously, calling someone a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc, is going nuclear. You are completely destroying that person's character and credibility.

Being a Social Justice Warrior does have a good connotation - you care about people. You may be misguided or carry things too far (depending on your point of view), but you aren't an ignorant or horrible person.
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Old 08-30-18, 01:12 PM
  #122  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by TomOpus View Post
This whole forum is becoming a Politics dumping ground. Why don't you invade Book Talk?

Or change the site name to PoliticTalk.
That's a big part of the problem that DVDTalk has. People are looking at an awful lot through their personal political filters and attacking people they believe are in the wrong from a political standpoint, even when talking about movies or TV shows.

And then the personal attacks come as the arguments get ratcheted up. People get, "Called out," vigorously for their views, and then they vigorously defend themselves, and things snowball from there.
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Old 08-30-18, 01:12 PM
  #123  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Whose fault is it that movies, TV shows, that features non-straight white males in leading roles are often labeled as a political movie/show and rallied against as such? Serious question because I think that is answer many people seem to be looking for lately.
Who's fault? Well, it's your own and a few others from looking at their posts.

Wait, you wanted everyone to blame others (and even political leaders) for YOUR behavior on this website? Isn't that just a tad passive and rather odd, since the commentary is far from passive in the first place. Second, it's also childish.
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Old 08-30-18, 01:14 PM
  #124  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Just like bigot. At least for Trump, and all those that contiue to support his views after they were exposed as racist, homophobic, etc. Because why else why would they continue to support bigotry?
Bullshit. NO ONE views, "Bigot," as a positive. Certainly no one here. Come on...
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Old 08-30-18, 01:21 PM
  #125  
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Re: Houston, We Have A Problem...

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
Didn't you just state that you were called racist? Has your personal character been destroyed, with zero credibility as a human being? Name calling is bad, but you're delving into hyperbole here.
Not really. There are some people here who will not take me seriously anymore because, for them, however wrong they are, those labels stuck.

So often when I post on a sensitive topic past accusations are brought up as a way to shoot me down. So, yeah, my character has been - unfairly, and based on incorrect assumptions - destroyed to an extent.

There are people here who really, genuinely seem to believe I'm a racist and a sexist. People who know me in real life know better, but some people here don't.

I'm not a racist or a sexist. I'm just an asshole. (Come on - we're all assholes sometimes.)

And I'm too stubborn to quit. I'm a pitbull in some respects.
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