Theoretically.

In actuality, you OWN a vhs tape or laserdisc of the original version of SW. You don't own the movie. Lucas does. Honestly, he can do whatever he wants with it whether we like it or not.

You obviously don't believe in property rights.

Legally? Sure -- he owns the copyright.
Morally? Well, that's a different story.


He legally has the right to burn every print in existance, and leave us with our existing low-resolution video copies until the end of time. But I doubt anyone would argue that he *should* do that.

You're twisting what he said so that you can easily discredit him with examples which are obvious, but don't apply to what he said. Kubrick and Malick were forced to "finish" their movies [I'm assuming you mean '2001', 'The Shining', and 'A New World'] by release dates; Kubrick was still cutting '2001' on the boatride over to the US premiere according to some stories. When the films were released, they both decided that they hadn't finished yet, recalled the films, re-worked them, and re-released them.

That's a bit different than what he said about going back and re-cutting at a much later date. Lucas had 20 years before he decided that 'Star Wars' should be re-done. Chaplin sat on some of his films for forty years before re-cutting them. These are the sorts of things that can fundamentally change a movie, basically because, over that long a time, a person changes a lot. And they want to believe they're still the same person, but they aren't.

I know it says this, but I do agree with bbo that it doesn't completely jibe with the idea that it's going to be the transfer they prepared in '93.

To me, that one's a minor change; if it still says "A New Hope", I'd still buy it. Greedo shooting Han and a CGI Jabba are a few examples of dealbreakers for me.

Yeah, I'd have to agree. I'd actually like for the "A New Hope" to be there.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a new transfer though. They made a transfer of that portion for the documentary on the other boxed set. It can be easily edited in.

So are we to assume he's gonna at least clean up the image for the release? Or will it look like a bad VHS copy?

Laserdisc had better resolution than VHS.

They made a transfer in 1993 and that's the transfer that will be used. It will be from film and it will be anamorphic. It will not, however, look like the recent release.

To some, that might be a very good thing.

Oh, don't get me started on the specific tweaks I'd want for it to be "perfect"... The perfect middle ground, to me, would be cleaning up the effects (matte lines, I mean), touching up a few backgrounds (I like the windows in the Cloud City in 'Empire', for instance), little bits like that. I even kinda liked the new scene with Biggs (I think; I only saw the Special Edition once; whoever that guy was). I've read through a list of all the changes made to the special editions, and *most* of 'em seemed fine (other than obvious mistakes with light sabers and stuff).

Basically, in my perfect world, he'd do a pass at cleaning up the effects and such to the original theatrical versions, but without making every scene so damned busy with CGI. No CGI robots punching other CGI robots. It would roughly be, "Fix what's there, but add nothing new." [For instance, I read something that said there's a shot in the theatrical versions where some ships disappear from the sky mid-transition, because the footage ran out or something.]

But I completely understand why they'd take it *completely* back to basics, based on the fan response to the SE. People are demanding "original", so that's what they're giving. It's just too bad, because I have a feeling that there will be people who watch those and think the effects look "bad" in some instances which could've been fixed ... but what would you even call that? The "Slightly Special Edition"? Ah, well, they're not doing it, and we all know that, so no use complaining over something like that.

Ah, I knew they had done a new transfer for the doc [or, rather, used a transfer which had been made and cleaned up subsequent to anything released], I didn't know they put that bit in too.

Thank you GuamGuy! That is exactly the point I'm trying to make! My hat is off to you, sir.

In the end, it should be untouched. No cleaning up matte lines even. The films should be released now AS THEY WERE THEN. You can't erase the past. I think the Star Wars trilogy has huge historical significance, so why not? Once you start futzing with something, you don't know when to stop, and that's Lucas' biggest problem. Is "he" (I should say, "his cronies") going to still be futzing with it when he's 80? You've just got to let it go. To me, it's like remixing and remastering a classic recording. Sure, it may sound good, but what was so wrong with the original? The original was made at a point in time, sort of a snapshot of who the creative person was at that time. A film is a hugely collaborative project, and doing what Lucas has done is, to me, destroying that collaboration.

Oh trust me...I'll be making my own hybrid versions of each movie so I can have it the way *I* want to watch it.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am too... I actually like some of the changes (most of the FX changes to the first film, aside from the CGI shit all over Mos Eisley; improvements to cloud city; even the sarlacc and ending of Jedi I kind of like). But with the "good" comes a lot of bad -- greedo, jabba, distracting dialog changes in ESB, the reworked Emporer scene, the silly "Vader's shuttle cruise"; Jedi Rocks; Hayden.

There's definitely a version that I could create from the 3 existing editions that would make me VERY happy... but then again, this version would probably also disappoint a bunch of other fans. The only way to do this logically is to go back and release the cleanest version of the "faces" transfer possible. I'm even happy about the 2.0 soundtrack, which means that the audio will be back to what I know and love (no missing "Force theme" in SW; no alternate audio takes in ESB, etc.)

I don't entirely disagree with this; the only reason I have any mixed feelings on the subject is that I know that you could clean it up so easily and so cheaply and make it look so perfect ... in theory. I think that those special effects, touched up ever so slightly with modern technology, could easily highlight all the deficiencies of current CGI technology.

Releasing this just means there will be a hundred fan-variants doing what I'm saying. I'm sure somebody will even do one which is entirely the Special Edition except in the show where Han shoots Greedo.

This is true; the temptation to tweak more and more would still be there. I know I was doing color correction for a film I shot, and there came a point when, realistically, I wasn't doing anything anybody would ever notice ... but I still re-tweaked a lot of stuff after that point.

This is a very good point, especially with regard to 'Star Wars', where Lucas re-worked two films on which he wasn't even the director (one of which has two screenwriters credited, neither of which is him).

Keep in mind, though, that from the start, part of George Lucas's brilliant marketing was of himself, as the sole creator of 'Star Wars'. We know that's bullshit now, from stories and various behind the scenes info which breaks down who thought of what, but we also know that, from the original release, he has been lying in order to seem more singularly important in the creation of the saga than he actually was [since somebody will surely ask, I'm talking specifically about the novelization; Lucas paid Alan Dean Foster to write it but allow him the credit]. After thirty years, he probably truly believes he's solely responsible for everything in those movies.

just got this in an email from their official site:

http://www.starwars.com/episode-iv/r...s20060503.html

they're going for separate 2-disc editions, with the same disney-like vaulting schedule of a few months only.

That's not entirely true - both The Shining and The New World were complete. Each film was recut after its premiere and numerous screenings - both films for pacing problems. Neither film was radically changed - Kubrick cut 26 minutes from The Shining, and Malick 15 minutes from The New World. They were just tightened up. I wasn't aware that 2001 was recut after its release.

Star Wars hasn't been radically changed, either. Luke, foster son of a moisture farmer, still blows up the Death Star, meets Yoda, trains to be a Jedi, saves Han, resists temptation, and a bunch of Muppets (to paraphrase Kevin Smith) defeat the Empire. No one painted a mustache on the Mona Lisa (well, Duchamp did, but that's another discussion for another day).

I'm not so sure, either, that Lucas had the idea of cleaning up the Star Wars trilogy a full 20 years after the initial film's release date. He has expressed, in numerous interviews, that he felt, upon initial release, that the films' special effects were unfinished.

I'm interested to compare the warts-and-all original releases to the much-maligned special editions. I bet I'll miss some of the special edition effects in the original releases, and will enjoy the lack of sore-thumb mid-90s additional scenes in the original releases.

cheers,

-the Jesus

yeah we knew that.

that's the original press release and has been up since day 1.

Wow. I just heard about this. I haven't bought a release of Star Wars since the VHS faces releases (I didn't have a laserdisk player), but I'll be buying this. Hell, if I get really crazy I might even buy the 2004 release, swap in the 2-disc versions, and sell the 2004 discs so I can have the bonus disc. Yeah, it'll be $40 for a bonus disc and a box, but... it's Star Wars.

Depends on what country you're in. Legal recognition of the moral rights of artists is rather strong in much of the world, especially throughout Europe.

In France, for example, if you stage a production of Beckett's "Waiting for Godot" with any female cast members, you can expect to be sued and lose for violating Beckett's moral right to proclaim that no females shall ever act in a production of that play.

Droit morale has also been used successfully to sue studios for creating and broadcasting colorized versions of films; despite the studio having had the relevant copyright, they were in violation of the directors' moral rights.

Of course, every director is entitled to have their wishes fulfilled with regard to their films...except George Lucas.

DJ

So now the non-SEs are "warts and all". Huh. I've watched the originals again recently, and sure, they don't look like a 21st century movie, but, well, THEY AREN'T. So what are we supposed to do, "clean up" all FX in every movie released before yesterday? I've never liked the SEs, because the digital futzing with is anything but seamless; it looks to me like they messed with a 25-to-30-year-old movie. The problem I have with the 90s LD transfer is color and sound; one advantage of the SEs. The sound restoration was fantastic (despite changes in the mix and more drastic additions). The skin tones in Return of the Jedi LD are very orange. I hope they don't simply re-use these masters.

I just love that Lucas has to eat crow and release this. For 6 years he has been selling the PT & OT as Anakin Story all of the sudden, when the OT was Lukes from 77-83. Lucas had to tie the PT with the OT to sell it now as the SW saga, and by just releasing the SE in 2004 with Hayden in ROTJ, he was trying to suppress the O-OT, so no one would recognize those movies anymore.

Lucas has always known that the PT couldn't sell itself, it had to have Star Wars attached to it. Just look at the Special Edtions in 1997, even the sides of the boxes still said Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. There were no Episode IV: A New Hope like the DVD's have now.

Oh, how I love demand, and how I love that Lucas will always capitalize to make money. Demand=Money, and that is why Lucas is doing this, and you know what I don't blame him.

But he failed in trying to get a majority of older fans to accept that the saga as he sees it now. Many still see it as just 4-6 O-OT versions, and don't recognize the PT ever existed.

Finally on September 12th, I don't have to hear some know-it-all PT fan tell me the SE are the only versions anymore cause Lucas has doesn't see the O-OT as his vision anymore, as I was always told to move on and stop whining about the O-OT on DVD. I will just reply now, "Welcome to the world of George Lucas, whatever he says now, will probably be contradicted within a few years."

Anyone for Episodes 7,8,9?

You do recall that Luke is the son of Anakin, right? Calling the original trilogy the story of Luke but not recognizing that the entire series could become the story of Anakin misses just about every basic element of every family saga ever told.

I could write an autobiography detailing my relationship with my father, and then later write a biography about my father's life prior to my birth. Clearly, my autobiography would be the story of me. But would the two books, taken together, somehow not constitute the story about my father?

Not every story has a single description. Is that really a stretch to believe?

If you saw ROTJ before the DVD release in 2004, and unless you have the approximate memory of a goldfish, you still remembered what the end of it looked like the post-DVD universe.

What else would it have attached to it? Meatballs? The Thin Man?

So what? The title Star Wars remained the title of the series even when episode numbering began in 1980 with ESB, and remains so to this day. Once the first film was re-released in 1981, each of the films in the original trilogy had the title in the following format: Star Wars: Episode ____:________. What else was he going to use as the title of the series for the prequel trilogy? A Nightmare on Elm Street Part 92: The Version You've Never Seen?

You're acting like Lucas took some random set of films and slapped the name Star Wars on them to trick everyone. I don't get your complaint, but I guess if it's possible to make a gripe about Lucas, someone out there is gonna do it...

DJ

The Hollywood Video near me as a crap load of the bonus disc for $10 if you want to buy it a little cheap.

Yeah, he and his family are probably starving.

[QUOTE=djtoell]You do recall that Luke is the son of Anakin, right? Calling the original trilogy the story of Luke but not recognizing that the entire series could become the story of Anakin misses just about every basic element of every family saga ever told.

I could write an autobiography detailing my relationship with my father, and then later write a biography about my father's life prior to my birth. Clearly, my autobiography would be the story of me. But would the two books, taken together, somehow not constitute the story about my father?

Not every story has a single description. Is that really a stretch to believe?

Lucas says the saga now is the biography of Anakin Skywalker, and I say it is two trilogies: one of Luke (OT), and one of Anakin (PT). A true linear story of the biography of Darth Vader wouldn't have him in ANH for about 15-20 minutes as a secondary bad guy, he would be much more prominent since it is suppose to be his story. That is why so many young fans who watch it 1-6, rank ANH as their least favorite. They watch 1-3 as this individual story of Anakin, then when they get to Episode IV and are waiting for the continuation of his story, they forget your suppose to follow the heroes Luke, Han, and Leia, and Vader is just some stereotypical bad guy in it. The Rocky series is a true linear story of his life, as he is the main character in each movie, and each movie centers around him. You & I both know that Vader is not the main character in ANH, and never was even when ESB & ROTJ completed the trilogy.


It is a shame cause I read on the internet so many young fans who don't see why ANH is this classic that so many older fans saw it as. Some of the reasons is cause of the special effects changes from Episode III to IV, but mostly cause they are looking for more Vader, and they don't realize he wasn't even Lukes father yet when the movie was filmed in '77! Isn't that the ultimate irony that one the movie that is actually called Star Wars, is the one the newer fans find the least interesting?

George Lucas said once the prequels came out, that we would look at the OT movies in a different light, do you think he intended for ANH to be perceived this way?

That's what I just did, plus you can make it cheaper by using the 3 for $25 deal.

It was very worth the $8-or-so for the "Empire of Dreams" documentary - I've watched it several times already.