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So NOW does everyone understand Scarface's "hip-hop" influence...?

So NOW does everyone understand Scarface's "hip-hop" influence...?

 
Old 10-01-03, 01:40 PM
  #51  
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Originally posted by lesterlong
Well I like to think that if all of the hip-hop culture went away the world would be a better place. I'm not saying urban culture because I love the NBA much more now then I ever have. But if rap music just disappeared it would be a truly great thing.
This is one of the MOST IGNORANT comments that I've ever read. It's ignorant in that you're makin' a comment about something that you don't even know about. You're just not educated on what hip hop is (I don't blame you on that...I blame the media).

Commercial, mainstream "Hip Hop" IS NOT and I repeat IS NOT REAL hip hop. Matter of fact, probably 75+% of rappers who've hit the mainstream don't know what hip hop is.

If you wanna listen to some semi-mainstream rappers who actually know what hip hop is, listen to The Roots, Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples, The Arsonists, Common, etc.

Hip hop is all about Unity, Love, and Respect. None of this gangbangin', hos, b*tches, drugs, money stuff that you hear rappers rap about.

Hip hop was started in the late 60s/early 70s in the South Bronx by "Urban" youth. People like Kool DJ Herc & Africa Bambatta started hip hop to to get the ppl of the South Bronx out of trouble so that they could do something positive with their lives.

Hip hop started out as local block parties. It consists of 4 main elements: emceeing (spoken word or as some would say, "rappin'"), b-boyin' (the dancin' element....aka break dancin'), graffiti art (the written word), and djin' (turntablism)...some consider beatboxin' to be the 5th element. Neways, at those parties all of these elements would come together. You'd have emcees rhymin', djs spinnin' beats, b-boys dancin' and graf artists drawin'.

The media likes to capitalize on the new thing as we all know. In the 70s and 80s, they capitalized on the 2 elements of hip hop that they thought the public would like and those elements were emceein' which became known as "rap" and b-boyin' which became known as "breakdancin'." In the early 80s, you saw the rise and fall of breakdancin' in the media with the Rock Steady Crew in FlashDance. Soon after that came Beat Street, Breakin' 1 & 2, and others. Breakdancin' was everywhere, even durin' the beginnin' of the '84 Olympics in LA. Everyone and their mama so to say was tryin' to "breakdance." Then after a while, the "fad" died cuz it became "played out." But as with most "fads" they go in and out of style. Break dancin' is once again comin' back into style as seen by all the break dancin' in "rap" and "non-rap" music videos.

However, unlike break-dancin', "rappin'" had more stayin' power. In the beginnin' of "rap" music in the mainstream, rap still had positive vibes about unity, love, respect, etc. Then as it gained more mainstream appeal, the subject of rap songs began to change. With the onslaught of "Gangsta Rap" in the early 90s, rappers like N.W.A. began to glorify drugs, gangs, violence, sex, hos, money, etc. The urban youth saw that they could make a buck by bein' rappers. Everyone knows that controversial stuff sells. Ppl wanted to hear about controversy rather than positive flows.

It's gotten so bad that if you ask most rappers what the 4 elements of hip hop are, they wouldn't be able to tell you. They wouldn't be able to tell you about the history. Hek, DMX even said that he started rappin' to get girls.


The main organization that promotes true hip hop is the Universal Zulu Nation. Their website is ZulaNation.com . This organization was started by Africa Bambatta (the guy that made the song Planet Rock).

Here's what the Zulu Nation Stands for straight from their site: The Zulu Nation Message .


Here are some excerpts from their site:

MESSAGE TO THE YOUTH AND YOUNG ADULTS OF THE WORLD

You must seek knowledge: Knowledge is to know and is the foundation of all things in existence. Knowledge is infinite. Knowledge is to know thyself and to know others. Knowledge is to know your surroundings, environment, the nature of life and death, animals, the solar system, the universe, the past, present, and the future. Knowledge is to know The Supreme One.


You must have wisdom: Wisdom is the manifestation of one's knowledge, the ways and actions one uses to make his or her knowledge known. To be wise, you must choose the right path, know right from wrong and teach others to be wise and set them in the right direction.


Understanding: You must have and get understanding. Understanding is when one draws a picture in his or her mind to see all things clearly with the third eye, the mind. To absorb what you get from knowledge and break it down so that you and all people will understand.
With these three elements of life, we must build a better world, teach the young and old, use natural resources to uplift the people, not to make individuals rich, but to put the Human mind back on the right path and get rid of sick racist mentalities.
Peace and Respect,
AFRIKA BAMBAATAA
THE RENEGADE OF FUNK
(TAKING FROM THE 12INCH VINYL(LP) "BAMBAATAA'S THEME'' BY AFRIKA BAMBAATAA AND FAMILY IN THE YEAR OF 1986 ON TOMMY BOY RECORDS)


Message To The People Black, Brown, Yellow, Red, White People All Human Beings
And Aliens Too Universal Life Forms Of All Forms

We, the Universal Zulu Nation are an organization and a universal nation, for all people on this planet so called Earth, as well for alien life form of people in the universe, whether your from Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Pluto, Earth, etc. We the Zulu's are not foolish people to believe that we are the only life in the universe and that the creator, (Allah, Jehovah, Jah, Yahweh, God or which ever name you wish to call the Almighty One) is only limited to producing LIFE only on the planet so called Earth. And if you do believe we are the only ones in the universe, then we should just get rid of science and base everything on falsehood and not even search for truth.


We as Zulu's of all races, colors, and creeds should study research on everything that's anything, and should always be thinking people and not ZOMBIES.
We as Zulu's who are from many different races, colors, and creeds should not be afraid to hear different views coming from humans or aliens from other planets. If one is a racist he or she still should be heard, If one preaches or teaches love, truth, science, o r whatever, even falsehood, he or she should be heard.
It is our duty as Zulu's and human beings to search for truth and nothing but truth. There are many who will hate The Universal Zulu Nation just because our organization is truly a multi-cultural organization and a nation for all people who wish to join, even aliens if they are for peace, unity, knowledge, wisdom, and understanding in the universe. There are evil ones and groups who are secretly trying to bring chaos (problems of Hell) all over Earth and in the universe. But we must always keep up strong FAITH with ourselves and the Creator of the Universe. We do not need any middlemen or women to intervene between us and the Lord of all worlds.


We as Zulu's of the Universal Zulu Nation must always show respect to those who give us respect and must always be disciplined, but always alert watching, observing, looking (seeing) with our third eye (the brain) and always listening and analyzing.
In this age of time, all people on the planet so called Earth should study and talk to each other and try to understand each others ways of life and not use each other for another's advantage. We must know Black, Brown, Yellow, Red, and White history, true history and not falsehood history.
Good or bad, heal the wounds and lets move on to a glorious future, not a future of death and destruction.


STAND UP AND UNITE,
KEEP THE POWER TO THE PEOPLE,
AND NOT TO THE GREEDY CLICKS (EVIL ONES)
WHO WISH TO CONTROL ALL PEOPLE
AND BRING SLAVERY ALL OVER THE WORLD
AND ALL OVER THE UNIVERSE,
PEACE & UNITY & GOD
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Old 10-01-03, 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by Dabaomb
Commercial, mainstream "Hip Hop" IS NOT and I repeat IS NOT REAL hip hop. Matter of fact, probably 75+% of rappers who've hit the mainstream don't know what hip hop is.

If you wanna listen to some semi-mainstream rappers who actually know what hip hop is, listen to The Roots, Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples, The Arsonists, Common, etc.

Hip hop is all about Unity, Love, and Respect. None of this gangbangin', hos, b*tches, drugs, money stuff that you hear rappers rap about.
Couldn't have said it better myself--some of the best musicianship and showmanship I've seen live has been at hip-hop concerts, where people enjoy themselves, jump up and down, and leave with huge smiles on their faces.

The rappers, well, they're missing the point of the flick. It's fun to watch Pacino, and his rise is exciting, but it's a cautionary tale. Don't let others' misperceptions ruin a movie for you.

And yes, as previously posted, Scarface having the Scarface laserdisc gives him definite DVD Talk-cred.
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Old 10-01-03, 01:50 PM
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Thanks for the lesson on what "real" hip hop is. Sheesh.

Back here on Earth, most of us don't care about "real" hip hop. I do care about the imagery and lifestyle glamorization of "street culture" we see and hear all over TV, radio, print media and advertising today.
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Old 10-01-03, 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by tonymontana313
Nice of you to stereotype people you know nothing about.
thank you...

untill they can prove me other wise, i will "play their game"....

they're the one who wanna have the "gangsta look" life-style or whatever... so, expect the stereotype from others
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Old 10-01-03, 01:53 PM
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somebody like tony is not somebody that should be looked up too...even the "coolness" and "determination" of his persona. people like him are the definition of evil.

this type of attitude (get what i can, when i can, however i can) has killed our society. i appreciate the self interest in business (work as hard as you can for yourself and try to make yourself the best you can be...it will eventually benefit everyone) but it must be done within the laws and without intentionally harming other people because they are in competition with you. competition is good...it makes us all better. dont "be hatin' on me !" because i can compete.

there are far too many insecure people in this world and they rely on other people as role models...well guess what? all people are human and they will all let you down (kobe bryant is only one example). people with bad intentions, no matter how hard they work or how cool they are, are the worst types of people to turn to. that is why i dont understand gangsta rap music. how does this music help people become better.

to me its a gigantic selection of our population that is either evil or insecure that like to listen to or perfom gangsta rap (realize that i dont belive all rap to be this way...it is only the gangsta genre that is this way). im sure there are some that listen to this music because of the hard beats, etc but those that walk around and emulate this lifestyle are lost.

that being said, there are many deeper more complex roots to "gangsta" rap. much more so than a movie playing a role in it. i like this movie very much and i enjoy watching tony act like a bad ass...but its a movie and its not something i will look up to.

thats just my two cents...take it for what it is....one man's opinion!
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Old 10-01-03, 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by NearysEpiphany
Thanks for the lesson on what "real" hip hop is. Sheesh.

Back here on Earth, most of us don't care about "real" hip hop. I do care about the imagery and lifestyle glamorization of "street culture" we see and hear all over TV, radio, print media and advertising today.
Thanks for that eloquent rebuttal u o so "Cool New Member." In any event, I'm tryin' to educate just like most members here try to educate on the pros of widescreen vs. fullscreen. As you say, "Back here on Earth, most ppl don't care about..." widescreen vs. fullscreen.

That we don't care attitude is whate perpetuates stereotypes and ignorance. If you're gonna comment about something, at least know a lil about it before you do so cuz otherwise you look like a fool.
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Old 10-01-03, 02:09 PM
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I'm sorry. I thought we were talking about the new Scarface dvd with its completely appaling Def-Jam extra, and the cretinous image glamorized and perpetuated by these thugs.

Then you come along with this "hip hop is about peace, love, and understanding!" song-and-dance and I'm wondering what the Hell that has to do with anything, because that's obviously not what we're talking about.

BTW:

"Commercial, mainstream "Hip Hop" IS NOT and I repeat IS NOT REAL hip hop."

Who exactly gets to determine what "real" hip hop is? As far as I'm concerned, the majority rules, and the majority that I see stinks.

Last edited by NearysEpiphany; 10-01-03 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 10-01-03, 02:18 PM
  #58  
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Originally posted by NearysEpiphany
I'm sorry. I thought we were talking about the new Scarface dvd with its completely appaling Def-Jam extra, and the cretinous image glamorized and perpetuated by these thugs.

Then you come along with this "hip hop is about peace, love, and understanding!" song-and-dance and I'm wondering what the Hell that has to do with anything, because that's obviously not what we're talking about.
If you read my original post on the top of page 3 in this thread, you'd see that I was respondin' to LesterLong's comment that "The world would be a better place without hip-hop." The world might be a better place without what the general public views to be hip hop, but in my opinion, the world would be a much WORSE place without true hip hop.
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Old 10-01-03, 02:21 PM
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Somebody needs to stop letting thier TV run thier life.

I SAW IT ON DEM DER NEWS IT MUST BE TRUE!!
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Old 10-01-03, 02:36 PM
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Ironically, Pixy, you're exactly right.
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Old 10-01-03, 03:17 PM
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Not all Black people buy rap music or are into hip hop

I visit this site quite often, I really don't like it when people sterotype other people based on race. I don't care for Scarface or gangster movies. I don't buy rap records, or hip hop albums. I don't live in a ghetto. I graduated with a Bachelor's degree in Business. I don't live in a ghetto. I enjoy fantasy films (LOTR) and scifi films (Star Trek). I also enjoy Disney films. I don't like Hip Hop albums where artists curse, and degrade women. I also happen to be a black woman. So please think about what you're saying before you stereotype people. Thanks.
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Old 10-01-03, 03:18 PM
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I'm sorry. I thought we were talking about the new Scarface dvd with its completely appaling Def-Jam extra, and the cretinous image glamorized and perpetuated by these thugs.
Actually, when I started this topic, I was hoping it would lead to this. While I agree that rap (and the media) present a questionable image and message, WAY too many people here have way too much animosity dealing with a topic they know nothing about.
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Old 10-01-03, 03:35 PM
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Oh, I do know a bit about black urban culture. Let's not be so patronizing as not all of us are teenagers posting from the beautiful San Fernando Valley.

I may not know the (questionable) History of Hip Hop According to Dabaomb, but I do know how media images influence certain people, and that's what I'm concerned about here.

I dunno why there's even an argument about this. Is there one person here who truly believes that the kind of crap seen on this DVD special feature is, in any way, good for impressionable viewers or society at large?
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Old 10-01-03, 03:35 PM
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I would much rather have a feature about how the film industry was effected by this then how a life of a rapper was effected by this film.

first off, by coming close to an X rating, it set standards for rating boards for years to come. second off, the glorification of a drug lord. I listen to some rap. I don't have the image of all rappers being bad. The majority of the love for scarface comes from the trend of the SERIAL KILLER brand of shirts. which glorified older films and shows in a sort of Old School cool factor and putting it with the latest hip things

Scarface in this case was the Dealer


Stickers and many other things like posters and the such came about and stapled the image again of it being cool.

http://www.craigerson.com/Old/serial.html

http://www.conspiracyinc.com/Serial%...20T-shirts.htm

http://www.happypunk.com/scarface.htm

http://www.chaosmusic.com/Tshirts/pacino2.asp

This is where I believe this whole craving for the scarface drug dealer/kingpin craze came about. also the fact that GTA:Vice City takes a lot of the feel of Scarface and has mass appeal to the general public. These factor in as how Scarface became popular.

rappers aren't the only ones that take this example as their "roots". I personally think that they had the power to jump on the dvd because of the Universal connection and said what they were going to say about it because they felt that they related to the scarface way of life. either way, I'm happy they didn't remix the soundtrack like they were planning to at one point and would much rather have a different feature on it.
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Old 10-01-03, 03:40 PM
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Thanks for the posts, Dabaomb. It was good to finally see some defense towards rap music here (I refer to it as rap music since the term "Hip Hop" has been raped by the media) but here's what puzzles me about most of these comments that have been posted in this thread.

I know that there's a number of members here who are in their late 20's/late-30's, so I'm assuming that most of you guys have been familiar with how long rap music has been around. And if you go back in time, you can see that all the "Bling-Bling" and "thug culture" crap that populates today's music scene was absoultely nowhere to be seen back in the day. You never heard The Fat Boys talking about "smoking some other fools". You never saw Public Enemy flaunting any jewels,yachts, and cribs. And you certainly didn't see a video that had KRS One lounging up in some club surrounded by half-naked women.
So to label EVERY RAPPER in the industry as just some illterate thug who does drugs and kills people is downright ignorant and uncalled for.
I can understand that a lot of you younger members see "Hip Hop" this way because that's the only form of "Hip Hop" that you hear on the radio and see on the TV these days, but surely some of you older members should know better. However, if you were one of those guys that just never gave rap music a listen, then I don't know what to tell you.

Last edited by Mondo Kane; 10-01-03 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 10-01-03, 03:43 PM
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Ahh.. The Fat Boys, KRS 1, and P.E. *tear* Don't forget about Sir Mix, the man, the legend. He even put me in his song "Posse on Broadway"
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Old 10-01-03, 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by wm lopez
Here's something intresting I noticed watching the Documentarys on this dvd.
Brian DePalma said that back in 1983 they wanted to give this movie an X rating. Which means nobody under 17 can see this movie, basicly because it can have an affect on the teen.
And as history has shown with the black & hispanic community it has and in a bad way.
This movie is some of the proof on how movies, t.v. & music can have a bad effect on socity.
I would spend less time worrying about the Scarface's "bad effect on socity" and more time improving your spelling and grammatical skills.
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Old 10-01-03, 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by PixyJunket
Ahh.. The Fat Boys, KRS 1, and P.E. *tear* Don't forget about Sir Mix, the man, the legend. He even put me in his song "Posse on Broadway"
Speaking of The Fat Boys, when will there be a Disorderlies : Criterion Collection DVD? That would be the bomb!
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Old 10-01-03, 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by PixyJunket
Don't forget about Sir Mix, the man, the legend. He even put me in his song "Posse on Broadway"
Funny you should mention "Posse on Broadway" because I was to bout to lecture on and on in my previous post how metalheads that I went to school with in the late 80's actually liked that song as well as a few Eazy E tracks. You see, maybe it was the enviroment that I was from, but people weren't as hostile towards music the way they are now.


Originally posted by PixyJunket
*tear*
Indeed.

Oh and since Scarface is (I hope) the main subject of this thread, let me just say that I've always loved this film. Whether a rap fan,punk fan,polka fan..It's an addicting film and am glad to have this in my collection. Too bad there's so many uptight collectors out there who have to throw a hissyfit over one little featurette on a DVD.
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Old 10-01-03, 04:00 PM
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You know, I'm really not being racist towards any specific race at all! If it so happen to be that the hip hop culture is identifying with such bad things, hell, that's not MY fault. To see I'm being racist just based on the the fact that the hip hop culture CLEARLY embraces this film for all the wrong reasons, is like saying that I'm hateful towards fat people because I would say Roseanne Barr just happens to be fat. Why is it that guy from Run DMC is dead, why is it that 50 Cent was involved in a shoot out? This has nothing to do with crime of the fact that they embrace a 'gangster' lifestyle? You can say it's just an 'image' all you want for their careers but when famous people in hip hop, rap, mainstream hip hop, mainstream rap, whatever the heck you want to call it, are DYING every year... it's obviously because SOME, not ALL, of these people are acting out a delusional world that makes them believe they are true gangsters! The fact that I say a majority of the hip hop community are into this kind of thing, doesn't make me racist. It makes me honest for stating the facts.

Here's an example of how they feel about their lifestyle. Any other kind of music group/person outside of hip hop, are under obligation to do farely well. But if they start doing TOO well, they are shunned from the public because they sold out. And people who will shun a band for being too popular or selling out, who also listen to rap and/or hip hop, are hypocrits. And here's why:
In rap, there's really pretty much no such thing as selling out. In every damn video you see, it's all about how cool the cars how... how much jewelry they are wearing, how many ho's they can get to shake their ass... while at the same time, they're holding HUGE wads of money at the camera. This is them saying 'hey look at how damn rich I am, im a gangsta rappa!' I would accept it only as an image... if it wasn't for the fact that SOME of these artists are out killing people or involving themselves with a major amount of drugs. I can make arguments about myself all day if I wanted to, being a 21 year old white guy, as I know my own faults. But this argument hasn't called for those opinions, this thread has called for stating the link between 'Scarface' and it influencing 'hip hop'. So all you people who are going to call me racist, ignorant, WHATEVER, are just being blind to what's really going on in our world. Start watching the news every day, and instead of criticising me for my beliefs that are clearly backed up by facts, try taking in some of it, you should stop doing the 'expected' just because what your saying is the most PC thing to say. Once you begin to absorb information from the news and our world, and compare it to what you see on your Music Television every day, you'll put 2 and 2 together. If not, I respect your opinion.... just as long as you're not calling ME ignorant.
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Old 10-01-03, 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by NaturalMystic79
Speaking of The Fat Boys, when will there be a Disorderlies : Criterion Collection DVD? That would be the bomb!
Man, Criterion or not.. that would rock. I saw this a few months ago (many months ago?) on cable. Yes, it's cheese and hokey, but that's what the 80's were all about, right?
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Old 10-01-03, 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by Mondo Kane
Funny you should mention "Posse on Broadway" because I was to bout to lecture on and on in my previous post how metalheads that I went to school with in the late 80's actually liked that song as well as a few Eazy E tracks. You see, maybe it was the enviroment that I was from, but people weren't as hostile towards music the way they are now.

Indeed.

Oh and since Scarface is (I hope) the main subject of this thread, let me just say that I've always loved this film. Whether a rap fan,punk fan,polka fan..It's an addicting film and am glad to have this in my collection. Too bad there's so many uptight collectors out there who have to throw a hissyfit over one little featurette on a DVD.
Yeah.. people are pretty closed minded to music these days.. nobody goes to the indie recrod stores to check out something new to share with people, they just tune to MTV and are told what to listen to. People spend more time bitching and moaning about music artists they see on TV then trying to find new things to listen to. Baffling.
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Old 10-01-03, 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by NearysEpiphany
I'm having trouble understanding why so many people line up to defend the ugly, narcissistic, hedonistic and violent lifestyle as glamorized by "hip-hop culture".

It's like some people want to make a career out of playing Devil's Advocate. The amount of rationalization that goes on is priceless:

"But....you're stereotyping!!!. That's bad!!!."

"Not ALL rappers are violent!"

"You are just jealous/racist/insert whatever else here."

Either these people are really young, really naive, or just plain airheaded. You'd have to be one of these things to not see the negative influence ghetto "roleplaying" has had on urban (and even suburban) youth in the last 20 years.
So wait, if I believe that not all rappers are violent, I'm naive? So for rappers who aren't violent in their lyrics or the lifestyle they project in public must be beating their wives behind closed doors or something?
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Old 10-01-03, 06:06 PM
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Scarface is the bible...

...if I remember correctly, somebody actually said that in the documentary.

Bible to what? I guess for some rappers (after all, this documentary features them), Scarface is the definitive vision to what life should be...greed, loyalty, wealth, and "se helo to my lil' fren" weapons.

I love Scarface, mind you, but to see these rappers glofify, or even try to emulate the character is just plain ridiculous. And most of these rappers have in their so-called music advocate blowing some other gangsta's head off just to be on top....just like their hero Tony Montana.

Sure, at the end these rappers say there's a lesson in Scarface considering his downfall. What lesson??? It's like a kid back in the 70s saying Star Wars was a huge influence because he used the "Force."

I would really wish that at least some gangsta rapper would mention a movie like "Menace 2 Society" since I think that was a much better depiction of "gangsta livin'."
Cardiac161 is offline  
Old 10-01-03, 06:15 PM
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it's funny

It takes comments from some people on a forum to truly allow the rest of us to understand and see the idiocy, think-skulled, and moronic attitudes of most of society.

Thanks for making me glad that I'm not any of you! (and that my parents didn't give birth to such a dumbass kid!)

Later all.

Sanjay Shanbhag

BTW: remember, the culture around you, unless you are a total braindead moron (like most of the people out there apparently...) has no real effect on you. People can do whatever they want, dress however, act however, but it's still you who chooses what to do... I've grown up listening, not so much to rap, etc...(mainly reggae, soca, calypso, and classic....yes...don't ask about that strange mix of music)) but I haven't gone around shooting people, etc although after reading some of the thoughts here, I would be much happier if something "happened" to ensure that some people wouldn't be around to breed!
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