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Biggest Batman News in Decades

Old 07-03-18, 11:33 AM
  #101  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Iím not fully caught up but Iíve read the first few volumes of his Batman run and have liked most of it. I donít know that Iíd throw everything heís done out the window just because of this. In general Iíve liked the Rebirth stuff Iíve read more than any New 52 stuff including Scott Snyderís Batman run which I found overrated.
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Old 07-03-18, 12:33 PM
  #102  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by stingermck View Post
I thought King had the balls to do the wedding, and not resort to a typical twist. I have preached about him since Vision about how great he is, and I just thought he was better than this. I am disappoint
I mean how much of it is him and how much of it is editorial? We may never know. Even in this case, he had little to do with marketing over the 500 variant covers, and like I said before, the writer should have the ability to do whatever in the service of a good story, but marketing/editorial were the ones who screwed up here.
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Old 07-03-18, 01:58 PM
  #103  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

I get why retailers are upset, and I get why people are annoyed at the NYT printing a spoiler, but for the life of me, I don't get the level of fan outrage over the non marriage. Are people that invested in Batman and Catwoman being married? Sure it was a bait and switch and that can get annoying, but comics have been doing that for 100 years. I remember when Jean grey married Cyclops in X-Men #30. Marvel made a really big deal about it. Then the issue came out and they got married, and you know what? It wasn't that exciting. In fact it was pretty darn boring. Nobody gives a crap about X-Men #30. I know that Batman getting married is a bigger deal given the nature of his character, but this just feels like a bunch of maladjusted fanboys and fangirls crying because they were living vicariously through this fictional relationship. Maybe that's too broad a generalization, but these people that ordered 1000 variants but now want to return them all, what were they going to do with them that has now been ruined by the swerve?
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Old 07-03-18, 03:21 PM
  #104  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by rocket1312 View Post
I know that Batman getting married is a bigger deal given the nature of his character, but this just feels like a bunch of maladjusted fanboys and fangirls crying because they were living vicariously through this fictional relationship. Maybe that's too broad a generalization, but these people that ordered 1000 variants but now want to return them all, what were they going to do with them that has now been ruined by the swerve?
I don't think it's that at all. A year ago I don't think you'd have had any fans clamoring for Batman and Catwoman. However when the writer/company has sold us an event I think we're expected to care about that event. DC wouldn't have made a big deal with 50 covers and all the marketing if they didn't want the fans to care. They sold the fans a bill of good. It's like sending out real wedding invitations and getting the gifts but then saying "oh we were just kidding".
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Old 07-03-18, 04:35 PM
  #105  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Iím not surprised at all the drama, except from some of the long-time readers here. This is nothing new, weíve had continual twists and abandonments of long-running storylines for decades now. I would have been surprised if the wedding took place without some sort of out.

The story not happening exactly the way you wanted, or a new creative team ďthrowing outĒ the previous continuity, doesnít change that story or erase it. A good story is a good story. Continuity isnít a real thing.

Tom King tells damn good stories. Probably the best in the big two these last few years. Iím glad I donít pay full price for anything, but Iím looking forward to reading this and his continued DC stories for hopefully years to come.
Originally Posted by rocket1312 View Post
I get why retailers are upset, and I get why people are annoyed at the NYT printing a spoiler, but for the life of me, I don't get the level of fan outrage over the non marriage.
I think the real issue here is the way DC hyped the non-event.

The wedding has been hyped for months, gotten mainstream press coverage, and was hyped up to be a historic event like the Death of Superman twenty-five years ago.

Retailers were ordering extra copies of this issue, variants, and retailer exclusives. Some shops were holding midnight parties and wedding receptions with cakes. DC is even releasing a hardcover wedding album.

And DC just completely pulled the rug out from under them. Some of these guys have probably invested thousands of dollars in this in a time when shops are struggling to stay open. They're going to be left with stacks of unsellable comics and hardcover "wedding albums." Not to mention the readers who were buying variant covers on the expectation that this would be a key historic issue.

If DC had just treated this like a normal issue fifty, I don't think so many people would be pissed.
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Old 07-03-18, 04:55 PM
  #106  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by DWilson View Post
I'm an old, old man. I stopped buying new comics about 13 or so years ago; I just get the collections from the library and I'm much happier. A while back I was sorting through a bunch of my comics from the Nineties and I was amazed at how many starts and re-starts and "Creative" changes so many books went through and how meaningless they were so many years later.
I've been around the block, so the perpetual reboots and resets are nothing new to me. But it felt this time like we were on the verge of a new phase in Batman's history.

Originally Posted by rocket1312 View Post
I get why retailers are upset, and I get why people are annoyed at the NYT printing a spoiler, but for the life of me, I don't get the level of fan outrage over the non marriage. Are people that invested in Batman and Catwoman being married? Sure it was a bait and switch and that can get annoying, but comics have been doing that for 100 years. I remember when Jean grey married Cyclops in X-Men #30. Marvel made a really big deal about it. Then the issue came out and they got married, and you know what? It wasn't that exciting. In fact it was pretty darn boring. Nobody gives a crap about X-Men #30. I know that Batman getting married is a bigger deal given the nature of his character, but this just feels like a bunch of maladjusted fanboys and fangirls crying because they were living vicariously through this fictional relationship. Maybe that's too broad a generalization, but these people that ordered 1000 variants but now want to return them all, what were they going to do with them that has now been ruined by the swerve?
If you weren't excited about seeing a real change in Batman's status quo after 80 years of a perpetually single Batman, than I would say you aren't much of a fan. There are so many new stories to tell from his marriage alone, they could have run with it for a few years without duplicating anything we've ever gotten from the character.

Batman has always been the least affected character whenever DC reboots their continuity, often dragging years and years of stories into an increasingly condensed timeline for him.

I think DC is scared that a segment of fans will grow very attached to the idea of Batman being married, causing havoc when the company inevitably retcons the marriage away.

DC editors had wanted to split Lois and Clark up for years before the New 52, but were rightly afraid of the backlash. That ultimately led to the dissolution of that continuity because so many Superman fans now will never accept anything but their marriage.
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Old 07-03-18, 08:04 PM
  #107  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Maybe I'm not a real fan. I'm probably not. Still think most of the anger is silly (retailers aside). I felt the same way about Hydra Cap, Kitty/Colossus and whatever other stories have gotten people all hot and bothered recently. Whether or not King is telling a good story is the only thing that matters to me.
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Old 07-04-18, 03:57 PM
  #108  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Well I have read it twice now. It truly is a beautiful issue. I take it back about King. But I wish it had not been spoiled, and DC marketing deserves the thrashing its getting.
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Old 07-04-18, 05:59 PM
  #109  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post

If you weren't excited about seeing a real change in Batman's status quo after 80 years of a perpetually single Batman, than I would say you aren't much of a fan.
I'm a big fan, but I wasn't thrilled about Batman getting married to Catwoman.
1) It was hyped up to the point that it felt like a gimmick.

2) If it's anything like Clark and Lois, boring.

3) Batman and Catwoman married make for great Earth-2/Imaginary stories. It doesn't make as much sense in the normal continuity considering how paranoid Batman is.

4) I think someone like Rachel Caspian is more wifey-material.

5) Hasn't it been implied in the movies, cartoons, and comics that he'd get married only after he stops fighting crime?

A much better change to the status quo was the Damien Wayne reveal. It happened in a regular issue. No multitude of variant covers, or baby shower special editions. I personally hated it, but it turned out to be a great evolution of the series.
In fact, I wish Bruce had stayed dead and we still had Dick Grayson as Batman and Damian Wayne as Robin.

But I agree with everyone else you said. That's some bullshit that DC pulled. While I personally wasn't excited for the marriage, I can see why others would be, and it has nothing to do with living vicariously through fictional characters. It has more to do with false advertising and treating the audience poorly.

I can't believe that Marvel and DC both pulled the same stunt at around the same time. Assholes.
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Old 07-04-18, 10:23 PM
  #110  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

DC has issued a statement they are paying back any store that spent money promoting this thing. So the store owners that wasted money on wedding cakes, cosplayers, parties and such for this non-event should get reimbursed. However, I don't believe they are making the issues returnable. The industry just didn't need this on the biggest-selling book of the summer. This year's sales are the lowest the industry has seen since 2010.

A widespread belief (or should I say hope) around fandom seems to have developed that King will eventually marry them in his supposed 100-issue run, which could be another two full years away. Though a second wedding issue will never have the energy or momentum this issue had. I don't think DC editorial is going to allow a married Batman for very long even if it does happen, there are rumors the DC universe may get rebooted once again in the next 2 years after Doomsday Clock finishes up.

There is no way shops or fans will get excited about a second wedding issue after this fiasco, so possibly King gives us some sort of surprise elopement at the end of his run. I have zero interest in the new Catwoman solo after reading the first issue. There is no chance I'm sticking around for another 50 issues through arcs like the War of Jokes and Riddles.

I'm not much a fan of the issue itself or the lame twist, now having read the issue. There are several beautiful pin-ups in it of Batman and Catwoman that only remind me now they aren't married. There is one great scene with Alfred.

This is on top of Bendis getting off to a less-than-stellar start with his Superman mini-series.
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Old 07-05-18, 01:42 PM
  #111  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Like the sucker I am I ordered a lot of three of the variants of the issue last night off eBay. Came to a decent price and even though the wedding doesnít happen it still felt like one of the bigger recent issues. Got the standard cover as well as the one by Arthur Adams, and the one by Jim Lee and Scott Williams.
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Old 07-05-18, 03:06 PM
  #112  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
Like the sucker I am I ordered a lot of three of the variants of the issue last night off eBay. Came to a decent price and even though the wedding doesn’t happen it still felt like one of the bigger recent issues. Got the standard cover as well as the one by Arthur Adams, and the one by Jim Lee and Scott Williams.
I was all set to buy a couple of the more awesome variant covers before what happened. If you want a bittersweet read, this BatCat shipper site listed most of the variant covers last month.

https://bruceandselina.com/batman50-...ers-guide.html

However, it's now brutal reading the introduction written weeks before the issue came out ...

One of the joys of this extraordinary moment in Bat/Cat is Bruce and Selina finally tying the knot in the flagship Batman comic is an event the company wants to mark with the best talent they have, and certainly the talent want in on the most important union in DC Continuity since Lois and Clark.
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Old 07-09-18, 06:13 PM
  #113  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

So now that the issue is out and a few days has passed, Phantom Stranger whats the latest on how comic shops are feeling about the whole deal?
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Old 07-10-18, 02:00 PM
  #114  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by stingermck View Post
So now that the issue is out and a few days has passed, Phantom Stranger whats the latest on how comic shops are feeling about the whole deal?
DC is paying for any promotional expenses incurred because of the wedding issue, so those shops that went all-out aren't as upset. I'm not sure stores will trust DC going forward as much after what happened.

I've heard numbers bandied about that 10-15% dropped Batman from their pull lists after the wedding. The issue itself probably sold very well, it may take a few issues to see the real effect of this stunt. Many of the shippers on social media have more or less said they are walking away from the book.

Possible spoilers for the next year of Batman...

Spoiler:
Word seems to have gotten out that Bruce will stop being Batman over the next year, so that Dick temporarily replaces him as Batman. After trashing Catwoman and Batman's relationship, DC will replace it with Dick and Barbara getting together as an attempt to appease older fans. If Batman and Catwoman do get back together, it's not going to be anytime soon.

I have a hunch Selina is going to show up pregnant with Bruce's daughter in King's run. While DC hates a married Batman, they don't seem to mind dozens of younger sidekicks.
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Old 07-10-18, 02:05 PM
  #115  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

As an older fan, I'm fine with that method of appeasement, but man if that really happens that seems even more like what Marvel just did with the X-weddings.
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Old 07-10-18, 02:25 PM
  #116  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
As an older fan, I'm fine with that method of appeasement, but man if that really happens that seems even more like what Marvel just did with the X-weddings.
It would be very interesting to know if Marvel had the inside scoop on DC's wedding plans and went ahead with their very own wedding stunt in advance.

What are the chances of the two happening independently? Possible but unlikely.
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Old 07-10-18, 02:49 PM
  #117  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Hooray. This will be the 5th time Bruce has been replaced in the modern era.

Knightfall, Prodigal, Final Crisis, Bunny suit batman, and now this.
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Old 07-10-18, 08:29 PM
  #118  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by stingermck View Post
So now that the issue is out and a few days has passed, Phantom Stranger whats the latest on how comic shops are feeling about the whole deal?
Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
DC is paying for any promotional expenses incurred because of the wedding issue, so those shops that went all-out aren't as upset. I'm not sure stores will trust DC going forward as much after what happened.

I've heard numbers bandied about that 10-15% dropped Batman from their pull lists after the wedding. The issue itself probably sold very well, it may take a few issues to see the real effect of this stunt. Many of the shippers on social media have more or less said they are walking away from the book.

Possible spoilers for the next year of Batman...

Spoiler:
Word seems to have gotten out that Bruce will stop being Batman over the next year, so that Dick temporarily replaces him as Batman. After trashing Catwoman and Batman's relationship, DC will replace it with Dick and Barbara getting together as an attempt to appease older fans. If Batman and Catwoman do get back together, it's not going to be anytime soon.

I have a hunch Selina is going to show up pregnant with Bruce's daughter in King's run. While DC hates a married Batman, they don't seem to mind dozens of younger sidekicks.
I can tell you that retailers are still pissed because this blunder is costing them money in the short term. Most stores are stuck with hundreds to thousands of copies of these books with no hopes of moving this inventory. In addition, many retailers who ordered exclusive variants, received all of their copies damaged by either Diamond or the printing company. A perfect example is the Comic Street Market variant by Natali Sanders, which was one of the few that had sold well. So now the stores are facing the option of having all the variants reprinted and sent to them and hopefully, not damaged in the process or having the order cancelled. Option 1 sucks for them as they won't get the variants in time for San Diego Comic Con and Option 2 sucks equally cause now they'll have to refund thousands of dollars to all the customers who pre-ordered and make it up to them somehow.

Like I mentioned before, this stunt may be the end for many comic book stores and that's why there still the high possibility of a formal lawsuit against DC Comics. I know ComicsPro, who is like a retailer association, is looking to help fix things between the retailers and DC right now. And as I said before, this is affecting DC too. In the past, a book like Batman #50 would have been by it's second printing right now, with a third and fourth printing announced in the near future. This isn't happening this time at all.
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Old 07-11-18, 12:34 PM
  #119  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

There's a recent event in a Marvel comic that made me happy, but with what just happened in Batman and X-men, ugh, maybe I'll just wait it out.
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Old 07-11-18, 03:30 PM
  #120  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by Red Hood View Post
Like I mentioned before, this stunt may be the end for many comic book stores and that's why there still the high possibility of a formal lawsuit against DC Comics. I know ComicsPro, who is like a retailer association, is looking to help fix things between the retailers and DC right now. And as I said before, this is affecting DC too. In the past, a book like Batman #50 would have been by it's second printing right now, with a third and fourth printing announced in the near future. This isn't happening this time at all.
That is why so many inside the industry thought the marriage was going to happen - why would DC give a major publicity push to a marriage that wasn't happening? King himself went on actual network talk shows hyping it up and this non-event received more variant covers than Action Comics #1000.

It came at the worst possible time for many comic book shops after an already poor sales year. While Marvel and DC are doing okay, apparently Image is having a terrible, terrible year.

Leaking the outcome early pretty much killed all the casual sales. I can't call anything surrounding this issue as anything but a pretty bad blunder by DC.

And the early return on Superman by Bendis isn't looking very good at all.
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Old 07-19-18, 08:30 PM
  #121  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Two big news regarding Batman #50 and Catwoman #1:

DC Makes BATMAN #50 & CATWOMAN #1 Returnable Due to Retailer 'Concerns'
https://www.newsarama.com/40923-dc-m...-concerns.html

Although I'm glad they are doing this for retailers, the fact is that these shops have been hurt in the long run as interest in both books have died and many people have dropped it from their pull list. Also, it is unknown is custom/exclusive store variants are returnable too. It's been several weeks since both books have been released and I'm disappointed with the storyline but mad at DC's marketing behind it. Again, I hope the sales director/VP lost his job for this bullshit. I also hope that DC has enough sense to cancel the Wedding Album trade coming on later this year. I feel like releasing it will only add fuel to the fire and remind fans of the disappointing end of #50.

I don't know if the second news was done in jest and people have taken it seriously, but Tom King tweeted that he was provided a bodyguard for San Diego Comic Con due to receiving death threats.
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/batman-...r-that-wedding
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Old 07-20-18, 02:04 PM
  #122  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

I think DC had no other option but to make those issues returnable. More and more Batman#50 looks like a crass sales stunt when they knew full well Batman wasn't getting married.

Geoff Johns is no longer calling shots over DC's editorial policy. He's too involved with Hollywood and other media these days. Dan DiDio hates married superheroes. The minute Johns left, Superman's marriage and child is put in limbo for Bendis and this Batman fiasco. DiDio's vision for the DC universe is much closer to the New 52 model than the Rebirth model.
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Old 07-20-18, 02:25 PM
  #123  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Pfft, what a joke. I don't read/collect like I used to but wow, I would have been so angry if Batman was my thing and this whole news came out.
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Old 07-20-18, 03:48 PM
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

When will they get rid of the albatross named DiDio? A better editor would have allowed the marriage instead of letting this stunt happen.
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Old 07-21-18, 08:38 PM
  #125  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Spoiler for issue #54

Spoiler:

It seems the rumors of Nightwing going back to being Batman are more close to becoming true. The cover for issue #54 is out and it's a split image of Batman and Dick Grayson as Robin on one side and on the other other Dick as Nightwing (with the blue suit). This kind of hints at the evolution of Dick, which will probably lead to him being back under the Batman suit.
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