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Biggest Batman News in Decades

Old 07-02-18, 01:44 PM
  #76  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Last page spoilers

Spoiler:
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Old 07-02-18, 02:04 PM
  #77  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

I have no words for what DC has done in this situation. I will never purchase another comic with Tom King's name on it. Batman sales are going down for the foreseeable future. The reaction on social media is palpable and real. The forthcoming Catwoman solo is already dead on arrival.

DC has never pulled a stunt on this level and there's no real way to walk it back in a future issue. This is going to damage Batman's brand in the comic book world, much like One More Day became a hotpoint for Spider-Man's fans.

I had $200 in my cart of DC trades last night at InstockTrades that I was just about to purchase when I came across this news. I decided they weren't worth it anymore.

Now my thoughts on the spoiler itself...

Spoiler:
Let's be clear, I knew a marriage wouldn't last forever. In fact, I didn't think it would last more than a couple of years. But King pulling the rug out from this wedding after nearly two years and 30 issues tells me that DC will never allow Batman married in mainstream continuity. If they wouldn't let him marry Catwoman just this once, they will never allow anyone to marry Batman. It's disappointing as someone that has been regularly reading DC for decades.

How the wedding unfolds is completely hackneyed and an incredibly lame plot device. Bane getting Holly to talk Selina out of the wedding is preposterous.

King supposedly has a 100-issue plan for his Batman. This is issue #50. I have the feeling this entire sham relationship/wedding has been about ultimately setting up Catwoman to get pregnant with Helena. There was never going to be a marriage, but DC editorial wants Helena, daughter of Bruce Wayne. That is why the annual was set many years in the future with Helena.
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Old 07-02-18, 02:06 PM
  #78  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by stingermck View Post
Just talked to my LCS. They are pretty bummed and said this will hurt them. Said more than likely casuals will just skip the book since the spoilers are out.
Retailers are freaking out on their private Facebook groups. If DC doesn't make all these wedding issues returnable, they will almost certainly face lawsuits.

I have no intention of dropping another dime on any Batman book until King is removed.
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Old 07-02-18, 02:20 PM
  #79  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Retailers are freaking out on their private Facebook groups. If DC doesn't make all these wedding issues returnable, they will almost certainly face lawsuits.

I have no intention of dropping another dime on any Batman book until King is removed.
I would love to read some of the reactions. Can you post any?
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Old 07-02-18, 02:39 PM
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

DC had talked some stores into opening at midnight for this issue. Now that the spoiler has hit mainstream news, retailers expect almost no one to show up to these events. There are 49 different variant covers, some of which a few retailers sunk a lot of money. Retailers are getting hundreds of calls canceling Batman from their pull lists.

I saw one owner mention how he expected Marvel to pull this stunt, but never saw it coming from DC.
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Old 07-02-18, 02:45 PM
  #81  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

I hear a store a couple of hours away, is doing a midnight, and were going to have cake and a full wedding reception. Ouch.
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Old 07-02-18, 02:51 PM
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Wow I didnít realize there were that many variant covers. I knew there were some but forty-nine and to have the issue turn into a total cop out? Thatís pretty shitty on both DCís and Kingís part. Truth be told Iíve been enjoying the Rebirth stuff by King up until now but I can see why people are pissed.
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Old 07-02-18, 02:54 PM
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

DC hasn't really been the same since Johns left for Hollywood. The company would have never pulled this stunt under his creative control. It damages so much of the goodwill that Rebirth brought to DC.

The decision reeks of Dan Didio and Jim Lee.
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Old 07-02-18, 02:56 PM
  #84  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
Wow I didnít realize there were that many variant covers. I knew there were some but forty-nine and to have the issue turn into a total cop out? Thatís pretty shitty on both DCís and Kingís part. Truth be told Iíve been enjoying the Rebirth stuff by King up until now but I can see why people are pissed.
Further galling is the deluxe Wedding Album that DC solicited for this event.

Amazon Amazon

Who is now buying this book?
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Old 07-02-18, 02:59 PM
  #85  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Someone else who's getting the heat is the author of the article in the NY Times, George Gene Gustines, and the newspaper itself, for running the spoiler on the headline. Would they have done that to any other medium? Did they do it for this because it was a "comic book"?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/r...n-spoiler.html

Sad thing, is that I like Tom King, personally and professionally. But he fucked up and there is no turning back.
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Old 07-02-18, 03:04 PM
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
DC hasn't really been the same since Johns left for Hollywood. The company would have never pulled this stunt under his creative control. It damages so much of the goodwill that Rebirth brought to DC.

The decision reeks of Dan Didio and Jim Lee.
Umm, Johns has been as much part of the problem with Didio and Lee since they took over DC Comics from Paul Levitz. Johns has done as much damage to the company with stunts like this (Pandora, New 52, delayed Doomsday Clock) as Lee and Didio. Still, I though the 3 of them had learned their lesson and that's why they were moving forward with the Rebirth 2 years ago.
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Old 07-02-18, 03:07 PM
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by stingermck View Post
I hear a store a couple of hours away, is doing a midnight, and were going to have cake and a full wedding reception. Ouch.
Many stores had done this type of midnight/July 4th event with wedding cakes, reception and all to celebrate the wedding. This was done as DC had urged them to do it to promote the sales of the book. At no point, there was any indication that this issue was going in the opposite direction and much less, that it would be spoiled online by the NY Times thanks to the DC Sales department. Again, John Cunningham needs to lose his job.
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Old 07-02-18, 05:05 PM
  #88  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

New York Times Writer Regrets Spoiling Batmanís Wedding in Headline

Vulture asked Gustines for his version of the story, and he sent back an eloquent response, pasted in full here:

Iíve been passionate about covering comics for the paper for nearly 20 years and this story has been a roller coaster. I think Tom King, Mikel JanŪn and everyone involved in the comic did a stellar job on this milestone issue. But if I had a Legion time bubble, I would handle it differently.


I was aware of the marriage storyline for a while Ė Iíve been following Kingís Batman since the beginning Ė but I was not sure how to approach covering it, if at all. DC reached out to me about whether the event could be featured in our wedding pages. I thought it was a fun idea and pitched my editors.


I approached it like a typical ďVowsĒ column Ė write about the story of the couple and what their big day is like, which is what I tried to capture in the piece, which quotes only dialogue from the comic and not the creative team, which is more typical of my reporting.


After I pitched the story, I learned the wedding would not happen. It seemed disingenuous to write the story without revealing the ending, which is why I included the reveal. But I shouldíve asked for a non-spoiler headline. We should have given more thought so that the casual reader, flipping or scrolling through the Style section, would not know the twist by reading the headline.

When Vulture asked Gustines whether DC knew he would be spoiling the twist beforehand, he replied, ďThey did not know how I would approach it, but they knew I would reveal the twist.Ē
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Old 07-02-18, 05:43 PM
  #89  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades


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Old 07-02-18, 07:05 PM
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by stingermck View Post

It may not be the end for the story, but it may be the end for many comic shops who invested thousands of dollars because DC promised that this would be a landmark event.
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Old 07-02-18, 10:14 PM
  #91  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Committed to the lie to the end

DC Comics has released the official playlist for Batman and Catwoman’s wedding reception.

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/0...ption-playlist
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Old 07-02-18, 10:44 PM
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by Red Hood View Post
Umm, Johns has been as much part of the problem with Didio and Lee since they took over DC Comics from Paul Levitz. Johns has done as much damage to the company with stunts like this (Pandora, New 52, delayed Doomsday Clock) as Lee and Didio. Still, I though the 3 of them had learned their lesson and that's why they were moving forward with the Rebirth 2 years ago.
Johns wasn't the driving force behind any of those changes, the corporate overlords demanded immediate changes and Johns did the best he could under those constraints. Well, Doomsday Clock is on him but many believe it's late because of the artist. But this wedding stunt is on a far different level than a mere reboot.

Johns basically sat down with each Rebirth book's writer and helped mapped out the first year for them. Rebirth started falling apart when Johns permanently left as Chief Operating Officer of DC for Hollywood, leading to DC bringing in Bendis on Superman.

If you want to see something truly galling, read the ad copy provided for the upcoming trade of these wedding issues:

Amazon Amazon

It's the marriage of Batman and Catwoman! The wedding of the century is here in BATMAN VOL. 7, written by the critically acclaimed Tom King!

The day has finally arrived: the nuptials of Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle. But their road to wedded bliss won't be easy. With visitors from this time and beyond, the Bat and the Cat will have to undergo even more trials and tribulations before they walk down the aisle.

Written by generational talent Tom King and featuring art by Mikel JanŪn, BATMAN VOL. 7 features one of the biggest milestones in DC history! Collects BATMAN #45-50.


This whole fiasco has me contemplating the possibility of dropping comics altogether. The whole Batman and Catwoman relationship can't be salvaged from this mess. Now King is in damage control mode hinting at some vague possibility they will get married down the road in issue #100.

Which means absolutely nothing to me, the next Batman writer will drop everything King has written, much like Bendis immediately threw out the last five years of Superman.
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Old 07-02-18, 11:31 PM
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
This whole fiasco has me contemplating the possibility of dropping comics altogether. The whole Batman and Catwoman relationship can't be salvaged from this mess. Now King is in damage control mode hinting at some vague possibility they will get married down the road in issue #100.

Which means absolutely nothing to me, the next Batman writer will drop everything King has written, much like Bendis immediately threw out the last five years of Superman.
I'm an old, old man. I stopped buying new comics about 13 or so years ago; I just get the collections from the library and I'm much happier. A while back I was sorting through a bunch of my comics from the Nineties and I was amazed at how many starts and re-starts and "Creative" changes so many books went through and how meaningless they were so many years later.

Last edited by DWilson; 07-03-18 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 07-03-18, 06:50 AM
  #94  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Further galling is the deluxe Wedding Album that DC solicited for this event.

https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Catwom.../dp/1401286534

Who is now buying this book?
Shit. I use Discount Comic Book Service so I ordered that months ago.

[Update] So, despite my better judgement, I went and read the NY Times article and I'm oddly okay with the twist. Now I wish I hadn't spoiled it.
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Old 07-03-18, 07:20 AM
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

I’m not surprised at all the drama, except from some of the long-time readers here. This is nothing new, we’ve had continual twists and abandonments of long-running storylines for decades now. I would have been surprised if the wedding took place without some sort of out.

The story not happening exactly the way you wanted, or a new creative team “throwing out” the previous continuity, doesn’t change that story or erase it. A good story is a good story. Continuity isn’t a real thing.

Tom King tells damn good stories. Probably the best in the big two these last few years. I’m glad I don’t pay full price for anything, but I’m looking forward to reading this and his continued DC stories for hopefully years to come.
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Old 07-03-18, 08:33 AM
  #96  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

I think it is perfectly acceptable to be disappointed in how a story turns out, and feel sorry for comic shops who are going to lose money.

The 'because comics' excuse is old.

Last edited by stingermck; 07-03-18 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 07-03-18, 08:51 AM
  #97  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

I feel sorry for the shop owners and for people who bought the more expensive variant covers. Frankly while Iíd have liked to have seen where the marriage storyline would have went itís not that surprising the more I think about it to have a twist thrown in. Comics have done stuff like this all along and while it is irritating itís kinda what keeps the stories coming. It was dumb of DC to have spoiled it before the issue even was out and I do think they should follow through with the marriage eventually.
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Old 07-03-18, 09:40 AM
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Iím not surprised at all the drama, except from some of the long-time readers here. This is nothing new, weíve had continual twists and abandonments of long-running storylines for decades now. I would have been surprised if the wedding took place without some sort of out.

The story not happening exactly the way you wanted, or a new creative team ďthrowing outĒ the previous continuity, doesnít change that story or erase it. A good story is a good story. Continuity isnít a real thing.

Tom King tells damn good stories. Probably the best in the big two these last few years. Iím glad I donít pay full price for anything, but Iím looking forward to reading this and his continued DC stories for hopefully years to come.
I said this when the Kitty/Colossus thing happened, but there's a major difference here. It's like if we had "Death of Superman" and Superman didn't die. I realize that he came back later, and everyone knew he would be back eventually, but that was a big event, was marketed as such, and comic stores ordered the heck out of it.

Or, on the solicitation side, if they had spent a lot of money advertising Jim Lee returning to penciling in Batman: Hush, and then the issue comes in and instead of delaying it, they had Roger Cruz do it. Again, solicitations change all the time but people would be furious. Because it's not like it was a last minute change.
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Old 07-03-18, 09:57 AM
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

I think this is just an example of how overactive the gimmick marketing has gotten. DC went all in with crazy variants, tie-ins, wedding albums, announcements, etc all the while knowing it was a ruse. The fact that the wedding has not yet happened is one thing - but the pageantry and excessive gloss that exceeds anything that could have come from the story backfired here. I would have been surprised if DC allowed Batman to get married, but it's a bit glib for DC to toss around $20 hardcover wedding albums. A 'good' twist is one thing, but shamelessly peddling upgrades, tie-ins, etc is so over the top. Even in some of the crossover heavy history of comics I don't know that there were as many expensive perks thrown around to hype things. I can imagine Tom King writing a simple enough story always knowing it would end this way then some marketing bean counter runs off with things. I don't know that people are as disappointed with the story (DC is just preserving status quo) as they are with DC's insistence it was once thing only to find it was not what DC said.

If 'everyone' (Bane, etc) knows Bruce Wayne is Batman that might have even been more marketing worthy that this sham marriage stuff; cue the inevitable retcon.

Last edited by Undeadcow; 07-03-18 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 07-03-18, 10:41 AM
  #100  
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Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades

I thought King had the balls to do the wedding, and not resort to a typical twist. I have preached about him since Vision about how great he is, and I just thought he was better than this. I am disappoint
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