Biggest Batman News in Decades
07-02-18, 01:44 PM
#76
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
Last page spoilers
Spoiler:
07-02-18, 02:04 PM
#77
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
I have no words for what DC has done in this situation. I will never purchase another comic with Tom King's name on it. Batman sales are going down for the foreseeable future. The reaction on social media is palpable and real. The forthcoming Catwoman solo is already dead on arrival.
DC has never pulled a stunt on this level and there's no real way to walk it back in a future issue. This is going to damage Batman's brand in the comic book world, much like One More Day became a hotpoint for Spider-Man's fans.
I had $200 in my cart of DC trades last night at InstockTrades that I was just about to purchase when I came across this news. I decided they weren't worth it anymore.
Now my thoughts on the spoiler itself...
DC has never pulled a stunt on this level and there's no real way to walk it back in a future issue. This is going to damage Batman's brand in the comic book world, much like One More Day became a hotpoint for Spider-Man's fans.
I had $200 in my cart of DC trades last night at InstockTrades that I was just about to purchase when I came across this news. I decided they weren't worth it anymore.
Now my thoughts on the spoiler itself...
Spoiler:
07-02-18, 02:06 PM
#78
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
I have no intention of dropping another dime on any Batman book until King is removed.
07-02-18, 02:20 PM
#79
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
I would love to read some of the reactions. Can you post any?
07-02-18, 02:39 PM
#80
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
DC had talked some stores into opening at midnight for this issue. Now that the spoiler has hit mainstream news, retailers expect almost no one to show up to these events. There are 49 different variant covers, some of which a few retailers sunk a lot of money. Retailers are getting hundreds of calls canceling Batman from their pull lists.
I saw one owner mention how he expected Marvel to pull this stunt, but never saw it coming from DC.
I saw one owner mention how he expected Marvel to pull this stunt, but never saw it coming from DC.
07-02-18, 02:45 PM
#81
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
I hear a store a couple of hours away, is doing a midnight, and were going to have cake and a full wedding reception. Ouch.
07-02-18, 02:51 PM
#82
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
Wow I didn’t realize there were that many variant covers. I knew there were some but forty-nine and to have the issue turn into a total cop out? That’s pretty shitty on both DC’s and King’s part. Truth be told I’ve been enjoying the Rebirth stuff by King up until now but I can see why people are pissed.
07-02-18, 02:54 PM
#83
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
DC hasn't really been the same since Johns left for Hollywood. The company would have never pulled this stunt under his creative control. It damages so much of the goodwill that Rebirth brought to DC.
The decision reeks of Dan Didio and Jim Lee.
The decision reeks of Dan Didio and Jim Lee.
07-02-18, 02:56 PM
#84
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
Wow I didn’t realize there were that many variant covers. I knew there were some but forty-nine and to have the issue turn into a total cop out? That’s pretty shitty on both DC’s and King’s part. Truth be told I’ve been enjoying the Rebirth stuff by King up until now but I can see why people are pissed.
Who is now buying this book?
07-02-18, 02:59 PM
#85
Banned
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
Someone else who's getting the heat is the author of the article in the NY Times, George Gene Gustines, and the newspaper itself, for running the spoiler on the headline. Would they have done that to any other medium? Did they do it for this because it was a "comic book"?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/r...n-spoiler.html
Sad thing, is that I like Tom King, personally and professionally. But he fucked up and there is no turning back.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/r...n-spoiler.html
Sad thing, is that I like Tom King, personally and professionally. But he fucked up and there is no turning back.
07-02-18, 03:04 PM
#86
Banned
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
Umm, Johns has been as much part of the problem with Didio and Lee since they took over DC Comics from Paul Levitz. Johns has done as much damage to the company with stunts like this (Pandora, New 52, delayed Doomsday Clock) as Lee and Didio. Still, I though the 3 of them had learned their lesson and that's why they were moving forward with the Rebirth 2 years ago.
07-02-18, 03:07 PM
#87
Banned
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
Many stores had done this type of midnight/July 4th event with wedding cakes, reception and all to celebrate the wedding. This was done as DC had urged them to do it to promote the sales of the book. At no point, there was any indication that this issue was going in the opposite direction and much less, that it would be spoiled online by the NY Times thanks to the DC Sales department. Again, John Cunningham needs to lose his job.
07-02-18, 05:05 PM
#88
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
New York Times Writer Regrets Spoiling Batman’s Wedding in Headline
Vulture asked Gustines for his version of the story, and he sent back an eloquent response, pasted in full here:
I’ve been passionate about covering comics for the paper for nearly 20 years and this story has been a roller coaster. I think Tom King, Mikel Janín and everyone involved in the comic did a stellar job on this milestone issue. But if I had a Legion time bubble, I would handle it differently.
I was aware of the marriage storyline for a while – I’ve been following King’s Batman since the beginning – but I was not sure how to approach covering it, if at all. DC reached out to me about whether the event could be featured in our wedding pages. I thought it was a fun idea and pitched my editors.
I approached it like a typical “Vows” column – write about the story of the couple and what their big day is like, which is what I tried to capture in the piece, which quotes only dialogue from the comic and not the creative team, which is more typical of my reporting.
After I pitched the story, I learned the wedding would not happen. It seemed disingenuous to write the story without revealing the ending, which is why I included the reveal. But I should’ve asked for a non-spoiler headline. We should have given more thought so that the casual reader, flipping or scrolling through the Style section, would not know the twist by reading the headline.
When Vulture asked Gustines whether DC knew he would be spoiling the twist beforehand, he replied, “They did not know how I would approach it, but they knew I would reveal the twist.”
Vulture asked Gustines for his version of the story, and he sent back an eloquent response, pasted in full here:
I’ve been passionate about covering comics for the paper for nearly 20 years and this story has been a roller coaster. I think Tom King, Mikel Janín and everyone involved in the comic did a stellar job on this milestone issue. But if I had a Legion time bubble, I would handle it differently.
I was aware of the marriage storyline for a while – I’ve been following King’s Batman since the beginning – but I was not sure how to approach covering it, if at all. DC reached out to me about whether the event could be featured in our wedding pages. I thought it was a fun idea and pitched my editors.
I approached it like a typical “Vows” column – write about the story of the couple and what their big day is like, which is what I tried to capture in the piece, which quotes only dialogue from the comic and not the creative team, which is more typical of my reporting.
After I pitched the story, I learned the wedding would not happen. It seemed disingenuous to write the story without revealing the ending, which is why I included the reveal. But I should’ve asked for a non-spoiler headline. We should have given more thought so that the casual reader, flipping or scrolling through the Style section, would not know the twist by reading the headline.
When Vulture asked Gustines whether DC knew he would be spoiling the twist beforehand, he replied, “They did not know how I would approach it, but they knew I would reveal the twist.”
07-02-18, 05:43 PM
#89
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
Batman 50 is not the end. This is a 100 issue story documenting and celebrating the love of Batman and Catwoman. Whatever happens, whatever anyone says, nothing’s going to spoil that. pic.twitter.com/Crm5t0CKcI
— Tom King (@TomKingTK) July 2, 2018
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
07-02-18, 07:05 PM
#90
Banned
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
Batman 50 is not the end. This is a 100 issue story documenting and celebrating the love of Batman and Catwoman. Whatever happens, whatever anyone says, nothing’s going to spoil that. pic.twitter.com/Crm5t0CKcI
— Tom King (@TomKingTK) July 2, 2018
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
07-02-18, 10:14 PM
#91
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
Committed to the lie to the end
DC Comics has released the official playlist for Batman and Catwoman’s wedding reception.
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/0...ption-playlist
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/0...ption-playlist
07-02-18, 10:44 PM
#92
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
Umm, Johns has been as much part of the problem with Didio and Lee since they took over DC Comics from Paul Levitz. Johns has done as much damage to the company with stunts like this (Pandora, New 52, delayed Doomsday Clock) as Lee and Didio. Still, I though the 3 of them had learned their lesson and that's why they were moving forward with the Rebirth 2 years ago.
Johns basically sat down with each Rebirth book's writer and helped mapped out the first year for them. Rebirth started falling apart when Johns permanently left as Chief Operating Officer of DC for Hollywood, leading to DC bringing in Bendis on Superman.
If you want to see something truly galling, read the ad copy provided for the upcoming trade of these wedding issues:
It's the marriage of Batman and Catwoman! The wedding of the century is here in BATMAN VOL. 7, written by the critically acclaimed Tom King!
The day has finally arrived: the nuptials of Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle. But their road to wedded bliss won't be easy. With visitors from this time and beyond, the Bat and the Cat will have to undergo even more trials and tribulations before they walk down the aisle.
Written by generational talent Tom King and featuring art by Mikel Janín, BATMAN VOL. 7 features one of the biggest milestones in DC history! Collects BATMAN #45-50.
This whole fiasco has me contemplating the possibility of dropping comics altogether. The whole Batman and Catwoman relationship can't be salvaged from this mess. Now King is in damage control mode hinting at some vague possibility they will get married down the road in issue #100.
Which means absolutely nothing to me, the next Batman writer will drop everything King has written, much like Bendis immediately threw out the last five years of Superman.
07-02-18, 11:31 PM
#93
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
This whole fiasco has me contemplating the possibility of dropping comics altogether. The whole Batman and Catwoman relationship can't be salvaged from this mess. Now King is in damage control mode hinting at some vague possibility they will get married down the road in issue #100.
Which means absolutely nothing to me, the next Batman writer will drop everything King has written, much like Bendis immediately threw out the last five years of Superman.
Which means absolutely nothing to me, the next Batman writer will drop everything King has written, much like Bendis immediately threw out the last five years of Superman.
Last edited by DWilson; 07-03-18 at 09:40 AM.
07-03-18, 06:50 AM
#94
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
Further galling is the deluxe Wedding Album that DC solicited for this event.
https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Catwom.../dp/1401286534
Who is now buying this book?
https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Catwom.../dp/1401286534
Who is now buying this book?
[Update] So, despite my better judgement, I went and read the NY Times article and I'm oddly okay with the twist. Now I wish I hadn't spoiled it.
07-03-18, 07:20 AM
#95
Challenge Guru & Comic Nerd
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
I’m not surprised at all the drama, except from some of the long-time readers here. This is nothing new, we’ve had continual twists and abandonments of long-running storylines for decades now. I would have been surprised if the wedding took place without some sort of out.
The story not happening exactly the way you wanted, or a new creative team “throwing out” the previous continuity, doesn’t change that story or erase it. A good story is a good story. Continuity isn’t a real thing.
Tom King tells damn good stories. Probably the best in the big two these last few years. I’m glad I don’t pay full price for anything, but I’m looking forward to reading this and his continued DC stories for hopefully years to come.
The story not happening exactly the way you wanted, or a new creative team “throwing out” the previous continuity, doesn’t change that story or erase it. A good story is a good story. Continuity isn’t a real thing.
Tom King tells damn good stories. Probably the best in the big two these last few years. I’m glad I don’t pay full price for anything, but I’m looking forward to reading this and his continued DC stories for hopefully years to come.
07-03-18, 08:33 AM
#96
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
I think it is perfectly acceptable to be disappointed in how a story turns out, and feel sorry for comic shops who are going to lose money.
The 'because comics' excuse is old.
The 'because comics' excuse is old.
Last edited by stingermck; 07-03-18 at 08:45 AM.
07-03-18, 08:51 AM
#97
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
I feel sorry for the shop owners and for people who bought the more expensive variant covers. Frankly while I’d have liked to have seen where the marriage storyline would have went it’s not that surprising the more I think about it to have a twist thrown in. Comics have done stuff like this all along and while it is irritating it’s kinda what keeps the stories coming. It was dumb of DC to have spoiled it before the issue even was out and I do think they should follow through with the marriage eventually.
07-03-18, 09:40 AM
#98
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
I’m not surprised at all the drama, except from some of the long-time readers here. This is nothing new, we’ve had continual twists and abandonments of long-running storylines for decades now. I would have been surprised if the wedding took place without some sort of out.
The story not happening exactly the way you wanted, or a new creative team “throwing out” the previous continuity, doesn’t change that story or erase it. A good story is a good story. Continuity isn’t a real thing.
Tom King tells damn good stories. Probably the best in the big two these last few years. I’m glad I don’t pay full price for anything, but I’m looking forward to reading this and his continued DC stories for hopefully years to come.
The story not happening exactly the way you wanted, or a new creative team “throwing out” the previous continuity, doesn’t change that story or erase it. A good story is a good story. Continuity isn’t a real thing.
Tom King tells damn good stories. Probably the best in the big two these last few years. I’m glad I don’t pay full price for anything, but I’m looking forward to reading this and his continued DC stories for hopefully years to come.
Or, on the solicitation side, if they had spent a lot of money advertising Jim Lee returning to penciling in Batman: Hush, and then the issue comes in and instead of delaying it, they had Roger Cruz do it. Again, solicitations change all the time but people would be furious. Because it's not like it was a last minute change.
07-03-18, 09:57 AM
#99
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
I think this is just an example of how overactive the gimmick marketing has gotten. DC went all in with crazy variants, tie-ins, wedding albums, announcements, etc all the while knowing it was a ruse. The fact that the wedding has not yet happened is one thing - but the pageantry and excessive gloss that exceeds anything that could have come from the story backfired here. I would have been surprised if DC allowed Batman to get married, but it's a bit glib for DC to toss around $20 hardcover wedding albums. A 'good' twist is one thing, but shamelessly peddling upgrades, tie-ins, etc is so over the top. Even in some of the crossover heavy history of comics I don't know that there were as many expensive perks thrown around to hype things. I can imagine Tom King writing a simple enough story always knowing it would end this way then some marketing bean counter runs off with things. I don't know that people are as disappointed with the story (DC is just preserving status quo) as they are with DC's insistence it was once thing only to find it was not what DC said.
If 'everyone' (Bane, etc) knows Bruce Wayne is Batman that might have even been more marketing worthy that this sham marriage stuff; cue the inevitable retcon.
If 'everyone' (Bane, etc) knows Bruce Wayne is Batman that might have even been more marketing worthy that this sham marriage stuff; cue the inevitable retcon.
Last edited by Undeadcow; 07-03-18 at 10:14 AM.
07-03-18, 10:41 AM
#100
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Biggest Batman News in Decades
I thought King had the balls to do the wedding, and not resort to a typical twist. I have preached about him since Vision about how great he is, and I just thought he was better than this. I am disappoint