Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > Video Game Talk
Reload this Page >

The increasingly tricky business of video games

Community
Search
Video Game Talk The Place to talk about and trade Video & PC Games

The increasingly tricky business of video games

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 10-29-24 | 01:01 PM
  #101  
Adam Tyner's Avatar
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
 
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,707
Received 2,803 Likes on 1,864 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Sony just closed two studios: Firewalk (the developer behind the stillborn Concord) and mobile dev Neon Koi. That's somewhere around a couple hundred people laid off.
Old 12-03-24 | 07:02 PM
  #102  
Music's Avatar
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,033
Received 169 Likes on 130 Posts
From: NH
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Ubisoft Is Discontinuing XDefiant in 2025, San Francisco and Osaka Studios Shutting Down Amid Major Layoffs - IGN

Ubisoft is officially discontinuing XDefiant in 2025, the publisher announced Tuesday, with all new purchases and registrations being discontinued immediately. As part of the shutdown, the publisher plans to shut down its production studios in San Francisco and Osaka while ramping down its site in Sydney, with up to 277 employees losing their jobs. Roughly half of the XDefiant team will be assigned roles elsewhere.
Old 12-03-24 | 10:14 PM
  #103  
GatorDeb's Avatar
DVD Talk Legend
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,960
Received 334 Likes on 256 Posts
From: The "Real" Vice City
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Didn't that just start this year?
The following users liked this post:
K&AJones (12-04-24)
Old 12-03-24 | 11:56 PM
  #104  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 42,192
Received 1,461 Likes on 1,136 Posts
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

It's probably because I'm not much of an FPS guy, but I never heard of XDefiant until the news of its cancellation broke.
Old 12-04-24 | 06:04 AM
  #105  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,031
Received 136 Likes on 123 Posts
From: Nashville TN
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Originally Posted by GatorDeb
Didn't that just start this year?

Yep...and at first it had mixed reviews but at it's height, nearly a million players on first day but after that started losing players...alot. I personally think these Devs who put out a game based on 100% PvP are way overestimating the draw of players. We've seen Concord, now XDefiant, some others in the past. I read a bitr on a small article on players comments on XDefiant and said there was little upgrading class and weapons for one. I think Studios/Devs are looking at the quickest, fastest way to make $$$$ with least amount of time and resources involved and then slap a lot of stuff to buy in a store hoping the best.
IGN has a long article with full statements...... Ubisoft Is Discontinuing XDefiant in 2025, San Francisco and Osaka Studios Shutting Down Amid Major Layoffs - IGN











Old 12-04-24 | 06:32 AM
  #106  
Music's Avatar
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,033
Received 169 Likes on 130 Posts
From: NH
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Originally Posted by K&AJones
Yep...and at first it had mixed reviews but at it's height, nearly a million players on first day but after that started losing players...alot. I personally think these Devs who put out a game based on 100% PvP are way overestimating the draw of players. We've seen Concord, now XDefiant, some others in the past. I read a bitr on a small article on players comments on XDefiant and said there was little upgrading class and weapons for one. I think Studios/Devs are looking at the quickest, fastest way to make $$$$ with least amount of time and resources involved and then slap a lot of stuff to buy in a store hoping the best.
IGN has a long article with full statements...... Ubisoft Is Discontinuing XDefiant in 2025, San Francisco and Osaka Studios Shutting Down Amid Major Layoffs - IGN
Something familiar about your link...
Old 12-04-24 | 11:37 AM
  #107  
Spiderbite's Avatar
DVD Talk Legend
 
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 20,831
Received 2,962 Likes on 1,826 Posts
From: The Ham, AL
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

My son has been searching for even the most basic of intro video game jobs after getting his VG Design/Development degree from Full Sail and he can't even get an interview anywhere. He has sent in countless applications.
Old 12-04-24 | 09:56 PM
  #108  
tanman's Avatar
DVD Talk Legend
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,991
Received 1,841 Likes on 1,264 Posts
From: Gator Nation
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Oh dang. I'm sorry that sucks. Not a great time to try to get in to the Video Game industry I'm sure.
Old 12-04-24 | 10:01 PM
  #109  
lwhy?'s Avatar
DVD Talk Legend
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,746
Received 1,175 Likes on 871 Posts
From: Nashville and Crossville, TN
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Originally Posted by Spiderbite
My son has been searching for even the most basic of intro video game jobs after getting his VG Design/Development degree from Full Sail and he can't even get an interview anywhere. He has sent in countless applications.
He can always just make his own game in his spare time. The guy who created Stardew Valley made a game by himself that started out as a demo to get a job in the gaming industry and he's made over $100 million from that game now.
The following 3 users liked this post by lwhy?:
andicus (12-04-24), story (12-05-24), tanman (12-04-24)
Old 12-04-24 | 10:11 PM
  #110  
tanman's Avatar
DVD Talk Legend
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,991
Received 1,841 Likes on 1,264 Posts
From: Gator Nation
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

That is one positive aspect of the VG industry. It is set up to still be possible to make it as an independent, even single, developer. In the independent market the cream still rises to the top.
The following users liked this post:
story (12-05-24)
Old 12-05-24 | 06:56 AM
  #111  
Goldberg74's Avatar
Moderator
 
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 21,989
Received 1,891 Likes on 1,297 Posts
From: San Antonio, TX
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Originally Posted by Spiderbite
My son has been searching for even the most basic of intro video game jobs after getting his VG Design/Development degree from Full Sail and he can't even get an interview anywhere. He has sent in countless applications.
There is a glut of recent graduates within that field and it is extremely competitive regardless.

My son graduated in April with a degree is Computer Science with a concentration in Game Programming. He was tapped by the faculty to be the producer of their senior thesis game (a paid position) and luckily that lasted a few months after graduation as they wrapped things up before launching it on Steam.

Once that wound down, it was another few months before he got full-time contract work with a small independent studio with contacts he had from an alumni and they like him and have moved him from side projects to their main title (they create VR games). So things are good for him right now, and the hope is that he moves from contract to salary in early 2025, but I have admonished him to live frugally and save, save, save. The industry is soooo volatile.

My college buddy has worked in the game industry since 1998, and in his 25 year career he's worked for 9 different studios in three different countries and taught as an adjunct at two different institutions.

The industry is tough and not for the faint of heart. There has to be a deep love there.

Good luck to your son.
The following users liked this post:
Spiderbite (12-05-24)
Old 12-05-24 | 11:38 AM
  #112  
Spiderbite's Avatar
DVD Talk Legend
 
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 20,831
Received 2,962 Likes on 1,826 Posts
From: The Ham, AL
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Originally Posted by lwhy?
He can always just make his own game in his spare time. The guy who created Stardew Valley made a game by himself that started out as a demo to get a job in the gaming industry and he's made over $100 million from that game now.
No offense to my son but he isn't that talented.
The following 2 users liked this post by Spiderbite:
Goldberg74 (12-05-24), The Questyen (12-05-24)
Old 12-05-24 | 11:44 AM
  #113  
story's Avatar
Moderator
 
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,093
Received 4,152 Likes on 2,420 Posts
From: Hope.
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Originally Posted by Spiderbite
No offense to my son but he isn't that talented.
DAAAAAD!!! Come ON!!!
The following users liked this post:
Goldberg74 (12-05-24)
Old 12-30-24 | 04:43 AM
  #114  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 42,192
Received 1,461 Likes on 1,136 Posts
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Although meant as a funny sketch, It's sadly pretty close to reality.

Old 01-27-25 | 02:24 PM
  #115  
Adam Tyner's Avatar
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
 
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,707
Received 2,803 Likes on 1,864 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Phoenix Labs (Dauntless; Fae Farm) laid off the majority of their staff.

Ubisoft closed their Leamington studio (formerly FreeStyle Games of DJ Hero fame)and cut staff at Dusseldorf, Stockholm, and Reflections. 185 jobs cut overall.
Old 01-28-25 | 09:36 AM
  #116  
spainlinx0's Avatar
DVD Talk Legend
 
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,732
Received 586 Likes on 347 Posts
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

I think this is the blowback from trying to make every game a "live service game." They think every game is going to be Fortnite or GTA Online. Sorry, there are only so many consumers and hours in a day. The market can't support 5,000 live service titles. They all saw their dreams of "recurring revenue" dashed before their eyes. Of course, it's the developers that suffer instead of the idiotic C-Suite that makes these terrible decisions.
Old 01-28-25 | 09:40 AM
  #117  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,655
Received 1,825 Likes on 1,301 Posts
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Originally Posted by spainlinx0
I think this is the blowback from trying to make every game a "live service game." They think every game is going to be Fortnite or GTA Online. Sorry, there are only so many consumers and hours in a day. The market can't support 5,000 live service titles. They all saw their dreams of "recurring revenue" dashed before their eyes. Of course, it's the developers that suffer instead of the idiotic C-Suite that makes these terrible decisions.
It's a gamble. All they need is popular streamers to start playing, then the game will blow up. It also helps when the games are good, like Marvel Rivals.
Old 01-28-25 | 10:05 AM
  #118  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 51,145
Received 2,980 Likes on 2,275 Posts
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Originally Posted by Noonan
It's a gamble. All they need is popular streamers to start playing, then the game will blow up. It also helps when the games are good, like Marvel Rivals.
It helps when the games are good but the license, I'm sure, helps tremendously for visibility.

But moving to live service games is kind of a reaction to development costs and trying to recoup that, I think.
Old 01-29-25 | 05:52 PM
  #119  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 42,192
Received 1,461 Likes on 1,136 Posts
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Let's also not forget NFT games. I'm sure that trap has also cost some unfortunate programmers their jobs because some exec thought it was a sure fire win.



Last edited by RocShemp; 01-29-25 at 09:34 PM.
Old 01-30-25 | 07:13 AM
  #120  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,655
Received 1,825 Likes on 1,301 Posts
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

It still blows my mind how quickly game companies jumped on the NFT bandwagon. Execs were still saying it would be a major part of their future as everyone else was watching the market crash to the ground.
Old 01-30-25 | 08:16 AM
  #121  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 51,145
Received 2,980 Likes on 2,275 Posts
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Originally Posted by Noonan
It still blows my mind how quickly game companies jumped on the NFT bandwagon. Execs were still saying it would be a major part of their future as everyone else was watching the market crash to the ground.
I mean, they're desperate for new revenue streams, and they have to jump on the bandwagon early because man it takes a looooong time to make a game these days.
Old 01-30-25 | 10:10 AM
  #122  
Adam Tyner's Avatar
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
 
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,707
Received 2,803 Likes on 1,864 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Circana's Mat Piscatella on Bluesky:

Folks in gaming have so internalized the idea that the huge live service games are huge that they are rarely brought up as why new games struggle to find an audience.

New games struggle (imo primarily) because there's no air for them to breathe. The biggest competitor to any new game is Fortnite.

Over 60% of new video game buyers in the US will buy a new video game once every 6 months - or less frequently.

For video game players overall, over 75% of US video game players say that most influential characteristic of a game that will get them to play is that game is free to play.

The second most influential characteristic is that over 65% of video game players say that regular free updates help push them towards playing a game.

Here's a chart looking at the top 2k+ games played on PS5 in the US during December 2024 from Circana's Player Engagement Tracker, ranked by the percentage of active PS5 users that played. (And it doesn't look much different on XBS or Steam)

This is what any new game is up against.


Your new soda didn't flop because the can was the wrong color or the ads weren't great. Your new soda flopped because Coke and Pepsi suffocated it.
Old 01-31-25 | 02:45 AM
  #123  
tanman's Avatar
DVD Talk Legend
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,991
Received 1,841 Likes on 1,264 Posts
From: Gator Nation
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

I don't understand that graph. I think it's missing a label or something?

But I understand the sentiment. This is the next, and biggest challenge of the video game industry. The final boss if you will. These games that defy consoles, or generations. These are the games that the next generation are playing My 12 year old's console of choice is Roblox. It doesn't matter what she's playing it on. There are an almost infinite amount of devices she can play it on. And most importantly she can play with other people. I feel like this younger generation might not have the same in person connections so they seek out virtual connections and it means a lot more than the game itself.

I think Nintendo has tapped success and will still be successful. Their IP is second to none and they've been able to keep costs down. But I think almost any other studio is in trouble. Especially the AAAs. Consoles may not be here for many more generations.

To me It's a bit sad. It's almost like a dumbing down of video games. Not to insult any of the more casual games but it's not like it was before. The artistry and effort put into AAA titles seem like a lot of it is gone to waste.
Old 01-31-25 | 08:19 AM
  #124  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 51,145
Received 2,980 Likes on 2,275 Posts
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Eh, I've said it before, but the industry cries poverty and that they need to raise the price of games yet more people than ever are playing video games (into adulthood even) and in general the industry is making a lot of money. And there is innovation/creativity buried in there, even if we don't always go out of our way to seek it out (or buy them at full price). The money is shifting, of course, and a lot of us are the old guys who don't want to play F2P games and/or recognize how damaging the monetization of them are (since some of it is glorified gambling AND targeted to kids).
Old 01-31-25 | 10:06 AM
  #125  
Adam Tyner's Avatar
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
 
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,707
Received 2,803 Likes on 1,864 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

Originally Posted by tanman
I don't understand that graph. I think it's missing a label or something?
I get it (or I'm pretty sure I get it!), but I'm also a weirdo who spends a lot of time visualizing data and making graphs in Excel for work.

Basically, it's showing that if you ranked games by the most-played to the least-played, the top handful of titles are capturing a massive, massive percentage of players, and it trails off quickly. And while that's expected behavior in a hit-driven medium, what's unexpected (for anyone who doesn't follow the industry, anyway) is just how disproportionate it is. It's not just "first there are the blockbusters, then a bunch of strong performers, then a large number of modest-sized successes, then indies, yadda yadda."; it's basically a very, very small handful of titles that most everyone is playing, and then there's...y'know, everything else.

Originally Posted by tanman
To me It's a bit sad. It's almost like a dumbing down of video games. Not to insult any of the more casual games but it's not like it was before. The artistry and effort put into AAA titles seem like a lot of it is gone to waste.
It's an unavoidable consequence of the blockbuster-ization of gaming. Everything has to be bigger and more of a spectacle than the thing before it. But the more money you spend, the more risk-averse you're likely to be, given how high the stakes are. So there's a lot of iterating and recycling based on previous successes, with a lot of the trailblazing happening in the indie scene and from more core gameplay-oriented companies like Nintendo.
The following 3 users liked this post by Adam Tyner:
andicus (01-31-25), Dan (01-31-25), tanman (01-31-25)


Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.