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Old 04-10-13 | 09:54 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Well, whatever the situation actually is, I have no regrets about trying to help out another human being.
Old 04-10-13 | 10:03 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Originally Posted by chuckd21
Well, whatever the situation actually is, I have no regrets about trying to help out another human being.
Maybe you want to check out Kiva.org, where not only you can help out another human being for a relatively small amount, but you'll also get repaid:
http://www.kiva.org/
Old 04-10-13 | 10:42 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Originally Posted by chuckd21
Well, whatever the situation actually is, I have no regrets about trying to help out another human being.
Same here, same here. I agree completely chuck. At this point, I hope it is a scam, but only for the sake of the fact that if this is indeed life or death for her then the people who complained just fucked her over big time. Geezus.
Old 04-10-13 | 04:52 PM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Are there not enough people in need that we have to crowd fund borderline nonsensical stories with no corresponding evidence?

I don't think the was a scam on her part, but it smells like a quack diagnosis by some alternative medicine charlatan with a non-medically accepted treatment plan.
Old 04-10-13 | 09:53 PM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Destructoid story now updated. Indiegogo stopped the campaign for suspicion and will refund all who contributed.
Old 04-11-13 | 07:19 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Here's the indiestone thread she's been posting on, apparently the "I'm not going to make it through the night" was her feeling suicidal, not her condition getting worse.
http://www.theindiestone.com/communi...hp?f=2&t=12310

Eurogamer got a comment back from Indiegogo:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ving-operation
"Indiegogo has a proprietary and effective fraud algorithm and when suspicious activity is detected the campaign is immediately suspended and all contributors are refunded," an Indiegogo spokesperson told me.

"Indiegogo's proprietary trust and security algorithms, and our community of credible, conscious participants help to make Indiegogo the world's largest, most trusted global crowdfunding platform."
It sounds very weird, like they're trying to absolve themselves by saying it was "an algorithm" that took the campaign down.
Old 04-11-13 | 08:17 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

From that thread:

Originally Posted by Chloe
I was in a dark place, I was so close, I had a knife pushed to my stomach, but a very good person managed to talk me down. The feeling was intense. I can't even describe it, it was like I was drunk, like chemicals where whirring around in my head, it was surreal.
This whole thing strikes me more as someone with mental health problems, not dying from heavy metal poisoning. As pointed out, the details she originally posted don't make much sense and sound like something a quack gave her or that she's self-diagnosed. And who, thinking of killing themselves, puts a knife to their stomach? Anyway, whether it's truly some 1-in-a-million medical condition or a psychological problem, hopefully she gets the help she needs. Unless it's all just a scam, in which case I hope she gets caught and suffers some kind of consequences for it.
Old 04-11-13 | 08:36 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Plus who, on the same day that a bunch of total strangers give you $35,000 so you can get a life saving procedure done, decides that is their lowest moment and wants to kill themselves? It doesn't require too sophisticated an algorithm to suspect fraud. Besides either those lawsuits went to court or they didn't.. They owe it to the contributes to confirm that. It isn't hard to do, just requires an internet search.
Old 04-11-13 | 08:39 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Originally Posted by maxfisher
As pointed out, the details she originally posted don't make much sense and sound like something a quack gave her or that she's self-diagnosed.
Well, it's a bit difficult now to get all the details since Indiegogo deleted the campaign page instead of just ending it, but here's a cached copy of it:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us
Here is my situation,

A few years ago I was involved in a near fatal car accident. The doctors patched me up and I thankfully survived.

However, several months ago, an object turned up on an x ray. The identity of the object is unknown, the only certainty is that the object is metallic, and it presumably was missed or left during the removal of the other foreign objects. Since the object is metallic, it is causing me to suffer from Metal Poisoning, a particularly nasty thing to get, as it makes me prone to illness, weakness, involuntary twitching, etc. I'm also more than likely going to suffer permanent brain damage (if I haven't already) if the object is not removed. Eventually it will kill me; at this point in time, my doctor gave me a few years before I had to remove the object.

Typically in these situations, people usually jump on the malpractice bandwagon, however, I was very lucky to have made it through that accident, and I could not have survived without the care of medical staff involved. Mistakes happen, and besides, I was working full time and I had insurance.

Unfortunately the metal object is in a compromising place; naturally the cost of removal is amplified, and the chance of surviving the operation (especially in my condition) is lower than normal. My insurance repeatedly denied my claims, and eventually I took them to court.

I was not prepared for the court case, and I lost miserably. The fact that without the procedure I would die was considered inadequate. Since it was apparent that my insurance was not going to help, it was then that I went for malpractice. The same story, I was not prepared. The strategy of claiming "How else would it have gotten there?" was no match for the hospital's lawyering hocus pocus. I shopped around at several different hospitals, seeing if there was one willing to do the operation and I pay it afterwords, but as the Insurance stated, the cost is too high, and it's a low probability of survival. I also attempted countless medical loans, but my credit is in the 'why did you bother filling this out?' range.

I'm not done fighting this, however, about a week or so ago, after collapsing in class I was brought to the hospital. Apparently I have been over-stressing myself, between going to school full time, working full time (at minimum wage, of course), trying to raise money through game development projects and freelancing, family (or lack thereof), other life issues, and just dealing with this whole situation, I have too much cortisol in my system. My time frame for surviving this has lowered from a few years to a few months, with loss of many basic functions due to arrive prior to my passing. I don't have time to futz with the system, right now I just need to get this thing out of me. I am a strong and independent woman, I can handle almost anything myself, but I'm setting this aside, because I do not want to die from this. I never wanted to resort to just donations (as opposed to asking for donations from people who've enjoyed my work), but it's clear that this is the best option I have right now. I appreciate anyone who sends me any info on legal advice or wants to help fight on my behalf, but I am just too stressed out to deal with it. If I need help I will seek legal counsel myself, but it's going to have to wait until this is all said and done.

I have never been on good speaking terms with my family. My parents are fundamentalist Christians, and I haven't spoken to either of them (barring a few incidents) since they severed ties with me after they discovered that I was not straight.

UPDATE: I called and talked with my mother the other day. It started as me breaking the news about all of this, pleading for her help, to her telling me I'm a disappointment, and that all my problems were my fault or in my head, because of my 'lifestyle choice'. I screamed at her and that was that.
My friends are helping out the best they can, however, they are few, and many of them barely have the means to take care of themselves, let alone another person. I am thankfully kept afloat in my apartment from excess student loans and my dwindling bank account and the help of my roommate and girlfriend, but of course, this kind of mammoth bill is impossible inside of a now fixed income.

While shopping around for different doctors, I found one who was willing to cut the cost of the operation, he is very nice and I trust him to perform the operation successfully. His quote for the surgery was $29,700, though I am going to increase the asking amount of the donations to $35,000, for indiegogo fees, just in case, and to help keep me afloat during recovery. The recovery (which involves getting the remaining poisons out of my system) is estimated to take 2-3 months for me to be in the clear, and at this point it is uncertain as to any other long term or permanent effects I will have to endure.

On a side note, there is a second surgery that I am seeking to get caused by the accident, however, it is not vital to my survival, but it is vital to myself being able to live a normal life. I have not picked a surgeon for this operation, though I've received estimates upwards of $25,000.

In the off chance I receive more than the intended amount, or I receive enough for both procedures, I will donate all remaining funds to another charity (I'm not sure of which at this point, not exactly my highest priority, but if you've got any ideas, feel free to send me a message)

If you have the means, please donate, even if all you have to spare is $1. If you don't, do not worry about it, you can still help out by spreading the word, or even just leaving a supportive comment in the comments section. I've had my fair share of assholes these last few months, and even more in the last few days, helping me take my mind of of them and this situation and keeping my stress at bay is the best I can do. The worst part of all of this is I blame myself for not being naive and not understanding how to deal with the legal situation properly.

If you want to know anything else, you are more than welcome to e-mail me, my contact information is at the bottom of this page.
So she's citing x-rays, which show a metalic object in her, and hiring a surgeon. She had insurance, so she was likely able to get tests done, including the x-ray. So it's not self-diagnosed.

Originally Posted by maxfisher
And who, thinking of killing themselves, puts a knife to their stomach?
Maybe she was thinking of trying to cut out the foreign metal object herself? That'd be suicidal not in the "I want to die" sense, but in the "doing this will most likely kill you" sense.
Old 04-11-13 | 09:18 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Originally Posted by Decker
Plus who, on the same day that a bunch of total strangers give you $35,000 so you can get a life saving procedure done, decides that is their lowest moment and wants to kill themselves?
The timeline appears to be that Indiegogo had actually deleted the campaign before her suicidal posts on Youtube and IndieStone. So suddenly losing the $35,000 you thought you had for your life saving procedure definitely seems like it could be considered someone's lowest moment.
Old 04-11-13 | 09:36 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Okay. But medically, her story is full of holes. Metal poisoning is an end-organ disease. Basically it results in overloading the liver. The treatment for metal poisoning is chelation therapy, not surgery. In addition, metal poisoning results from long-term exposure or ingestion or over-transfusion, not from retained foreign body. Foreign bodies cause other symptoms like abscess and infections.
Malpractice suits take months or years to go to trial and she claims to have "lost" two sequentially. We're talking a two year process of slowly dying, and she wants to kill herself right when she starts crowd funding? I doubt it.
Old 04-11-13 | 09:38 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Originally Posted by Jay G.
Well, it's a bit difficult now to get all the details since Indiegogo deleted the campaign page instead of just ending it, but here's a cached copy of it:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

So she's citing x-rays, which show a metalic object in her, and hiring a surgeon. She had insurance, so she was likely able to get tests done, including the x-ray. So it's not self-diagnosed.

Maybe she was thinking of trying to cut out the foreign metal object herself? That'd be suicidal not in the "I want to die" sense, but in the "doing this will most likely kill you" sense.
Yeah, I read that originally, but as others have posted, this kind of thing would be extremely rare and pretty much impossible from any metal found in a modern automobile. Also, I find it all but impossible to believe a hospital ER would say, 'Yeah, there's this piece of metal actively poisoning you. Looks like you have a couple months to live. Oh, you don't have insurance? Well good luck with that.' Seems like they'd be leaving themselves wide open to a massive lawsuit when she dies.

Assuming she does have a piece of shrapnel in her, it's much easier to believe she has mental health problems, erroneously has self-diagnosed that it's killing her and is way over-reacting than that it's actually killing her and no one will do anything. Or that she's just scamming people. Like it's been said, if she really had two court cases, they should show up in the public record somewhere and not be too terribly difficult to find and verify some details. I guess I don't doubt that there's something wrong with this girl and that she needs help, but I very much doubt the story as she's put it out there.
Old 04-11-13 | 10:02 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

I am confused by the court cases. Is it just me or does she makes it sound like she decided to represent herself instead of hiring a lawyer?
Old 04-11-13 | 10:12 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

She probably was naive enough to think "All I have to do is say that if I don't get this surgery, I'll die."
Old 04-11-13 | 10:16 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Originally Posted by Decker
Okay. But medically, her story is full of holes. Metal poisoning is an end-organ disease. Basically it results in overloading the liver. The treatment for metal poisoning is chelation therapy, not surgery. In addition, metal poisoning results from long-term exposure or ingestion or over-transfusion, not from retained foreign body. Foreign bodies cause other symptoms like abscess and infections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Treatment
Lead-containing bullets and shrapnel may also present a threat of further exposure and may need to be surgically removed if they are in or near fluid-filled or synovial spaces.
http://ultrananohealthsolutions.com/product11.htm
Closely examine the patient's history to elicit evidence of heavy metal exposure (e.g., foreign body ingestions, paint chips, retained bullets).
http://www.nursinghomesabuseblog.com...balt-chromium/
Similar to other problems originatingng from the DePuy hip replacements, the metal poisoning complications are related to a defective metal-on-metal design that sheds tiny shards of the metals due to the friction created when the cup and stem meet.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10192672
In this preliminary study, the patients with retained lead shrapnel who presented to the ED had significantly elevated BLLs, compared with the matched control subjects. Chronic plumbism may be considered in patients with retained lead shrapnel, and a history should be taken to assess the presence of symptoms referable to plumbism.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1174752-clinical
numerous reports document lead poisoning resulting from retained bullet or shrapnel fragments...
http://www.usuhs.edu/afrri/research/metal-tox.htm
http://discovermagazine.com/2012/nov...apnel-sickness

So metal poisoning from a retained foreign body is known to occur.

Originally Posted by Decker
We're talking a two year process of slowly dying, and she wants to kill herself right when she starts crowd funding? I doubt it.
You're talking about 2 years of near constant stress, along with various setbacks along the way. Suddenly she has a lot of money potentially coming her way in a very short time frame, which is just as suddenly taken away. That's at least enough to make someone feel distraught.


Originally Posted by maxfisher
Yeah, I read that originally, but as others have posted, this kind of thing would be extremely rare and pretty much impossible from any metal found in a modern automobile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_metal
Vanadium poisoning is notable as it is an anti-corrosive component of automotive steel, fragments of which can be left in passengers during an automobile accident.
Originally Posted by maxfisher
Also, I find it all but impossible to believe a hospital ER would say, 'Yeah, there's this piece of metal actively poisoning you. Looks like you have a couple months to live. Oh, you don't have insurance? Well good luck with that.' Seems like they'd be leaving themselves wide open to a massive lawsuit when she dies.
She didn't go to an ER, she went to regular doctors. Also, my understanding of health care law isn't the best, but my understanding is that they only can't deny emergency care. This article mentions "emergency and stabilizing care."
http://community.seattletimes.nwsour...0&slug=2786298

Her case isn't an emergency, at least not yet, and she's "stable" at the moment. If the poisoning continues, at some point she'll have some sort of incident that'll put her body in critical condition, at which point she could get admitted and treated on. But until then, hospitals don't have to do squat.

Last edited by Jay G.; 05-14-13 at 10:38 AM.
Old 04-11-13 | 10:50 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Fine Jay, it's conceivably possible because there have been reported cases of metal poisoning after people got shot. I'm sure the reason that a Google search of "metal poisoning following car accident" yields this story first and then law offices in class action lawsuits for hip replacement patients and alternative medicine sites is not because it doesn't exist in the medical literature, but rather because car accidents are such a rare form of injury.

If you really feel like doing an internet search today, then find her lawsuits in the court records. All you need are her full name and state of residence. If she's telling the truth, that information is readily available to everyone. If it's not there, she's lying. It's that simple.
Old 04-11-13 | 11:07 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

I won't argue that this is a scam, because I don't know. But I didn't give money because there are no verifiable facts. None. We have to accept everything on her word, which I'm not prepared to do in a world where charity scams are so prevalent (and so easy to pull off because people are afraid to ask questions).
Old 04-11-13 | 11:15 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

I like that Jay is trying to refute Decker's theory with information from Google searches.

All I'll say is that if it smells like a scam, it probably is. Something similar in my state happened not too long ago. Although the circumstances are not the same, it's the same idea that many here believe, that people using the internet as a means to scam people out of money: http://www.azfamily.com/news/gilbert...201335141.html
Old 04-11-13 | 11:16 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

I certainly respect and applaud the desire to bring relief to those suffering from debilitating illnesses. Just stick with recognized and legitimate charities. One of my personal favorites is The Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. When my sister was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Lymphoma, they provided her with medical information, support groups, they even gave her money to make ends meet while she was getting chemo and couldn't work. They're a great organization and I'm sure there are many others just as deserving of your support.
Old 04-11-13 | 11:38 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Originally Posted by Decker
Fine Jay, it's conceivably possible because there have been reported cases of metal poisoning after people got shot. I'm sure the reason that a Google search of "metal poisoning following car accident" yields this story first and then law offices in class action lawsuits for hip replacement patients and alternative medicine sites is not because it doesn't exist in the medical literature, but rather because car accidents are such a rare form of injury.
Apparently you missed this quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_metal
Vanadium poisoning is notable as it is an anti-corrosive component of automotive steel, fragments of which can be left in passengers during an automobile accident.
The reason why it's not top of google searches may be because it's extremely rare for people to have metal from a car accident left in their bodies. It's still entirely possible.


Originally Posted by Decker
If you really feel like doing an internet search today, then find her lawsuits in the court records. All you need are her full name and state of residence. If she's telling the truth, that information is readily available to everyone. If it's not there, she's lying. It's that simple.
I did a search using PACER:
http://www.pacer.gov/

It came up with no hits for the name Chloe Sagal, but I don't know if that site's definitive, or even covering the right courts.

Profile info says she lives in Chicago, Illinois. Searching for her on the Cook County Court site provides no hits:
http://www.cookcountyclerkofcourt.or...n=CASEINFOPage

But then, I don't know if she was living in Chicago when she filed the case. Also, I don't know the names of either the hospital she sued for malpractice, nor the name of her insurance company.

So, while I was unable to find the court cases, that doesn't prove they didn't occur.
Old 04-11-13 | 11:50 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Originally Posted by Deftones
I like that Jay is trying to refute Decker's theory with information from Google searches.
I was refuting the parts that were easily disproved by Googling. For example, his claim that you can't get metal poisoning from a foreign metal body.

Originally Posted by Deftones
All I'll say is that if it smells like a scam, it probably is. Something similar in my state happened not too long ago. Although the circumstances are not the same, it's the same idea that many here believe, that people using the internet as a means to scam people out of money: http://www.azfamily.com/news/gilbert...201335141.html
It's certainly possible it's a scam, and similar scams have happened forever, you don't even need to use the internet. Here's an incident where a woman lied about having cancer to get a free wedding:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-bride-...6#.UWbn7bXkuE0

However, the only "evidence" of a scam is simply the lack of information and details, and speculation around those missing details. That lack of information can make reasonable people wary, but it's not proof of a scam.
Old 04-11-13 | 11:51 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

I have a feeling that Chloe isn't her birth name...
Old 04-11-13 | 11:55 AM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

I know someone who was down on his luck and told us about a cancer diagnosis. We went as far as preliminary planning of a benefit to help him out. Then we didn't hear much from him for a few weeks beyond the occasional Facebook post, and the next time we saw him he was "cured". No chemo, no change in his appearance, he just "got better".

To date, I don't think there was anything wrong with him. The way he explained his situation to us sounds EXACTLY like her description. Not enough detail, nothing verifiable, vague "I'm just really sick" statements. I'd have called bullshit too.

Also, I realize there is no shortage of bigoted assholes in this world, but I have a hard time believing that if anyone in her family knew that it was either surgery or death, they wouldn't help her out.

Last edited by Draven; 04-11-13 at 12:02 PM.
Old 04-11-13 | 12:01 PM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Originally Posted by chuckd21
I have a feeling that Chloe isn't her birth name...
There is that possibility. I did search Cook County for just the last name "Sagal", since it seems less likely she changed that, but none of the cases looked like on for her.

There have been accusations that she's transsexual, which she has denied:
http://www.theindiestone.com/communi...20&f=2#p170420
Suppose I was for a moment that I was a transsexual. What does that have to do with anything? ...On top of that, who gives you the authority to out me to the rest of the world? That is probably the most unthinkably cruel thing you could do to a transsexual, and as a fellow LGBT, I have witnessed first hand the struggles these people have to endure, I have even lost one of my best friends due to people being this ignorant.
Old 04-11-13 | 12:16 PM
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding

Originally Posted by Jay G.
She didn't go to an ER, she went to regular doctors. Also, my understanding of health care law isn't the best, but my undestanding is that they only can't deny emercency care. This article mentions "emercengy and stabalizing care."
http://community.seattletimes.nwsour...0&slug=2786298

Her case isn't an emergency, at least not yet, and she's "stable" at the moment. If the poisoning continues, at some point she'll have some sort of incident that'll put her body in critical condition, at which point she could get admitted and treated on. But until then, hospitals don't have to do squat.
Her own account that you posted says she collapsed and was taken to the hospital, which is when she seems to have found out she has too much cortisol in her system and is going to die in months instead of years. When you collapse and are taken to the hospital, that's the ER. And if she was being poisoned to the point it was causing her to collapse, I can't imagine the doctor who would say, 'Nope, not an emergency yet. You've still got a couple months to live.'


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