Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

Does it bother me when the internet collective piles irrational hatred onto a person, place or thing? 50% of whom are just assholes who think it's fun to be a "part of the group" and hate things just to hate? Yes.

Life's too short for this bullshit. The Xbox One will cause us to lose to Al Queda? Fine. Get a PS4. There. Happiness. Joy. Mission accomplished. No need to jump on the internet and start raging about sins committed against the collective military, as if Microsoft has some kind of responsibility to cater to everyone everywhere.

No one remembers this but I was just as vocal in the Sony thread when the PS4 was announced, when the argument became "3 HOURS ABOUT A CONTROLLER AND NO BOX HURR DURR SONY FAIL".

Yes, it's no longer like the game consoles we remembered. Sony makes one that is. I don't get why anyone is still raging at this point when the answer everyone wants is right there.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

Agree.

It's a bit different in that MMOs are that way by definition and this is new for game consoles.

Also gaming consoles absolutely permeate the military given the demographic and the downtime. Damn near every room/tent/work area has one, especially in deployed environments. They generally play a lot of local multiplayer (sports) or single-player games if they don't have internet access.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

I get it, because the Xbox 360 was superior to the PS3 for a lot of us and we'd all like to continue with it. Better controller, better OS, exclusives with better replay, etc; I'm sure there are guys in the military like that as well, a big part being that the Xbox 360 brought back co-op in a big way, the Gears of War implementation was amazing. And imagine that's a pretty big deal when you're surrounded by a bunch of guys in the middle of the desert.

I honestly still have no idea who you're talking about, what articles you're reading or what forums you're on though. It's pretty docile here and this is where I do a majority of my internet discussions.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

The whole system gets something from the internet. Whether or not its actually getting anything useful or should be necessary is obviously questionable (understatement, I know), but Microsoft wants everyone connected for better or worse.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

To be clear, I was 100% joking.
:up: Military.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

A little different sure, but the Xbox One is now that way by definition, unfortunately.

Of course, I also have first hand experience with military complaining about MMO's being online, which is why I happened to bring that up. They have the right to complain, but at some point you just have to say "sorry, it's how it was designed."

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

I know what you're getting at, but it's still pretty ridiculous. I get it's what Microsoft wants, but the fact remains that you must have internet to play a single player game with no or trivial (saving) cloud features. It's kind of silly.

Don't get me wrong though, I get where they're coming from and it is a logical progression, I just feel like they jumped the gun a bit.

An offline MMO would be awfully boring :lol:

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

Exactly. They have largely been loyal Xbox users and are simply feeling the same anger many folks have for MS's "strategy". It just impacts them in a slightly more direct way.

They will migrate to PS4 to the tune of I'd guess a million or so gamers in uniform at any given time...a turnover of about a quarter million per year....times a 5-7 year console cycle...and they buy a metric shit ton of software. Giftwrapped from Microsoft to Sony.

If anybody's getting the message that they are being drama queens about it, they might be just a bit oversensitive themselves. Just saying.

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I don't know, Steam had to force the issue on the PC side of things and eventually it worked out in the long run after a rocky start. I know people don't want to treat consoles and PC's differently, but it probably goes back to the argument about the Kinect; if Microsoft and the developers know its always there, then they can expect it for all games and design accordingly. Of course you get problems like Sim City, but even something like Diablo people will complain loudly but still buy or play the game, or eventually get over it.

This would be a bigger pain if Microsoft had a monopoly on console gaming, but since they don't it seems like even Microsoft is accepting of the fact that "hey, this console isn't for everyone"

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

See there's something I agree with there though. I actually think Microsoft could have taken up the Steam model and been alright.

See here's the thing - Microsoft didn't full commit to their progressive view. There is no way you can have a disc-based game that installs completely to the HDD, doesn't require the disc, and is still resellable, without having constant DRM checks on the title. There are too many ways you could get around that and potentially install the game, sell or trade the game and still have a local copy.

However, even Steam allows offline mode, because the games are coming from them and they can lock them down via DRM to that specific machine/account. So at the very least, Microsoft should be offering the ability to play games downloaded from the Microsoft Game Store offline, however they would then have to admit the "online" bit is more about DRM than new features, something they don't want to do.

If MS got rid of the ability to trade, sell and rent games completely, then the DRM wouldn't be an issue either. Unfortunately, they would then be responsible for, at least in part, the destruction of Gamestop, Gamefly, and Gorilla Games.

So it was either allow used discs and have always-on DRM, or disallow used discs and minimize always-on DRM.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

I do wish there was the option. Install a disc and remove it from your system? 24 hour check in. Use the disc as a "key" (as it works now with the 360)? No check in. That would be a perfect compromise.

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Yeah, I think that's the problem too. They want to have it both ways. They want content to be digital and to own it, but they still want to sell disks at gamestop and walmart.

The reality is that anybody who has to buy a disk to get the data rather than simply downloading it might not have the ability to connect every 24 hours, and it seems like one of the delicate geniuses at MS would have thought of that.

If they'd had the balls to simply say "no more disks and first party games are $40", I think folks might have responded differently. Some still would have gone PS4, but at least there wouldn't be this kind of confusion and anger.

Edit: I was typing before you added to your post and basically said the same thing as you ended up saying.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

Personally, I'd rather they just went full blown Steam instead of trying to allow some sort of reselling of used games, and allow longer periods of offline play. :)

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

haha yeah, I have a bad habit of editing.

Technically offline play should be permanent once "Play Offline" is selected. If you can do it with the DRM on movies (such as with Vudu) without checking in and with the insane MPAA breathing down their backs, there's no reason why a game cannot.

So yeah, I agree. Microsoft screwed themselves over a little bit by trying to please everybody (console purist while pushing forward with digital distribution), and instead just pissed everyone off. They really need some PR training.

The reason I give Sony props for the way they handled this is because they're also going to be pushing Digital Distribution (and they have on their handhelds for some time), and as a perk for going digital you get to play your games off the HDD without having a disc. But if you get a disc, oh look, works like a disc.

I am really curious to see how Game Sharing works, I don't think it'll be quite what we're all hoping for but that could quickly make some people overlook some issues.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

This x1000. Just do disc + digital (ya know like 360, PS3/4, just on a larger scale) day and date for every game. People that are lazy and supposedly don't share, trade or sell games can hop on board the digital train(complete with the sharing feature). Offer the $10 discount as an incentive to usher in people on the fence.

Leave discs as playable discs, not installation discs. People not ready for digital still can buy, lend, rent, trade as always, and play offline.

They (MS) don't have any responsibility, but as chess pointed out, they're kids who just want to game in their downtime and have their system, controller, exclusives, etc preference just like we do.

I also think it's kind of ignorant to assume anyone taking up the military mantle is doing so just to have another bullet point in the console debate. My brother spent 2 years in Kuwait recently (civilian work on military base), and he was bored out of his fucking mind after work hours. There isn't shit to do. He had access to a community console, so we sent him some games to kill some time.

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The more I think about it, the less I think this is actually going to happen within the first year. At least for brand new titles. Prices between disc and digital for new games will be identical. You pay $60 for a disc that has packaging and distribution costs, or you pay $60 for a digital file that includes the convenience of not having to drive to Best Buy or wait in line with a bunch of other smelly gamers at midnight.

As the platform matures, sure, there will be digital-only sales like on Steam, and maybe slight discounts on digital new releases, but the convenience factor will still be applicable.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

Yeah but you lose retailer incentives and discounts by going with digital. That's one of my friend's biggest points of contention between X1 & PS4. He wants the convenience of all digital, but wants the benefits of sales, reward points, etc. that retail copies provide. A $10 discount across the board, would probably sway quite a few people.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

I've just got to step back and seriously ask....if the new XO or what other names it had before was in development for so long; surely some of those wizards of smarts could've seen the potential problems facing gamers of all walks of life with the every 24hr check-in, region locked and only available with about 21 countries at launch?.....but then again, that's what the 360 is for.

Maybe MS ought to set up a site where you put in your address and see if you qualify for the XO. Much like Comcast and AT&T does.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

I agree with this as well, and it's something that will benefit the Xbox One in some ways. Too Sony's credit they at least try with their PS Plus sales

Hopefully we'll see "Free Digital Copy!" stickers show up on some PS4 games :lol: Man, now that would be a real "deluxe edition" pre-order bonus.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget....ox-sticker.jpg

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

Yeah, I don't think MSRP of games will be instantly cheaper just because they're digital. There are $59.99 games on Steam too, even if others drop quicker. I agree that digital sales are something that will take a bit more time to mature.


Microsoft has admitted that what they want to do with the console is going to leave a few people out.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

And also royally tick off the retailers.

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Hah! You say that now but I promise you when the sales numbers start cranking and Sony starts whipping their ass, MS (who told us xboxers to shut the fuck up and deal with it) will be the ones crying like a bitch.

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But here's the problem with that... and I think this is exactly why MS decided not go to that route (because they easily could have):

Assume Microsoft's strategy for games proves to be incredibly popular. I know... I know... but hear me out. Sony will have to somehow compete, but today they don't offer a robust library sharing option (others have said you can share on 2 machines, but the owner account must be installed on both. I think that's how I understand it today)

Let's say Sony decides they want to enable digital library sharing that is equal to what Microsoft is doing, but they do it a few years later, if they see that their customers want this feature for ALL of their games. If they do, then they won't be able to enable digital sharing of any disc-based games released prior to that decision, because they weren't authored for that. Fine. Those discs can be treated as they are now; disc must be in the system to play the game. No big deal. Games released after that decision can be authored for that kind of digital distribution (ie: disc = installer). Those games won't require you to keep the disc in the system anymore, but must be authenticated every so often. So now, Sony has to maintain support for three different products:
- pre-digital disc-based games (no sharing, no digital auth., disc must be in PS4)
- post-digital disc-based games (sharing, digital auth., but disc no longer required)
- all-digital distribution games (sharing, digital auth., no disc)

Actually, they could offer a "digital token" for older disc-based games, but I'm not sure how that would work. If it's like UltraViolet, then people could pass that disc around to all their friends and they can each get a token for minimal cost. Not a big deal for movies that are $20, but a bigger deal for games that retail for $60. They could re-package the discs with a digital token included, but that would only apply to games bought new, not the games that people already have. Among, "normal people who own a console," there would be a lot of, "You mean, because I bought GTA6 in March, I can't share it digitally, but my friend who bought it in April CAN share it because his came with a token? Oh, I can get a digital token too, but I have to pay for it? But I paid full price already? Who are you? I'm cold."

Point is, if Sony ever wants to offer the library sharing feature, it may not be as convoluted as I've laid out, but it won't exactly be "easy" for console owners to wrap their heads around, either.

Microsoft, on the other hand, doesn't have to change a thing, because they've set themselves up for sharing, digital auth, no disc required from the get-go.

Again, I'm not saying MS is right, or that Sony will ever bother with such a scheme... but I just don't see it being easy if consumers demand it before the next-next generation.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

Yeah, that would have been the best thing to do. Offer both and let the market decide when to make the transition to all digital. That's how it has been with music and movies. They knew the console market wasn't ready for digital only, so they instead have this weird hybrid system that has pissed off many people.

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I still say we're lacking details about the library sharing function on Xbone. Like, why won't game companies get even more upset if this feature is really going to be used the way they're describing, and why didn't they make a much bigger deal about this in the press conference. If anything, it's because they don't expect (or maybe even want) this to find widespread use.

But say it does go down like you describe. There are already situations where gamers who bought the game on launch find that a newer release of the game comes with added DLC for the same price or less, and I don't think that's a gigantic problem right now. Plus, if they can adapt to the sharing model for titles going forward (and I don't see why they wouldn't be able to), that should be sufficient, I think.