Xbox One Pre-Release Thread: Upscaled to 1080p! (11/22/2013)
#2926
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
Idle thoughts . . .
Upon reflection, I think Microsoft viewed E3 as a necessary evil that they had to just get through on their way to becoming a living room media hub. Surprisingly, it's almost as if they don't even view Sony as a competitor. Lesser hardware specs? Don't care. Higher price? Don't care. Stricter DRM? Don't care. No non-broadband customers? You're still here?
They simply aren't going after hardcore gamers, though they must continue to pretend to do so for now (they aren't doing a very good job of it). They're locking up exclusives for the sole purpose of helping get Ones integrated into the home AV rig. They surely knew that their DRM policies would not play well at E3, but they are committed to lowering their head and plowing through the noise (as they perceive it) to get to their prime target audience - families with disposable income.
They have a machine designed for broad appeal and they did not figure out how to narrowcast it effectively to the hardcore gamer crowd. I think that one reason they failed to pull that off is because they have already broken up with the hardcore gamer in their mind. Microsoft has a new girlfriend waiting in the wings and they can't wait to get to her.

Upon reflection, I think Microsoft viewed E3 as a necessary evil that they had to just get through on their way to becoming a living room media hub. Surprisingly, it's almost as if they don't even view Sony as a competitor. Lesser hardware specs? Don't care. Higher price? Don't care. Stricter DRM? Don't care. No non-broadband customers? You're still here?
They simply aren't going after hardcore gamers, though they must continue to pretend to do so for now (they aren't doing a very good job of it). They're locking up exclusives for the sole purpose of helping get Ones integrated into the home AV rig. They surely knew that their DRM policies would not play well at E3, but they are committed to lowering their head and plowing through the noise (as they perceive it) to get to their prime target audience - families with disposable income.
They have a machine designed for broad appeal and they did not figure out how to narrowcast it effectively to the hardcore gamer crowd. I think that one reason they failed to pull that off is because they have already broken up with the hardcore gamer in their mind. Microsoft has a new girlfriend waiting in the wings and they can't wait to get to her.

This makes sense given the focus of the Xbox One's first conference had nothing to do with games. They want ppl to watch tv programming through their Xbox with Kinect and exclusive content being the mechanism that sets them apart from something like Apple TV. It was evident years ago that Microsoft doesn't give a shit about hardcore gamers when they focused E3 completely on kiddie Kinect crap that no one really wanted.
I'm not sure who the audience is. Are ppl really that fucking lazy to pay $500 for the convenience of switching from a game to tv programming with a Kinect command? I only have to pause the game, grab my remote and switch to tv input. 10 seconds tops. Unless the games are must play titles, I'm not buying one.
#2927
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
I haven't seen this article posted in this circle jerk thread, so forgive me if someone else posted it already.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/0...ies/?rel=12971
First off, why isn't Mehdi hired to do the console's PR?
Second, the bolded part regarding family members, if true, is far greater in value than being able to buy and sell used games.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/0...ies/?rel=12971
"This is a big change, consumers don't always love change, and there's a lot of education we have to provide to make sure that people understand."
This is the extremely diplomatic way Microsoft Xbox Chief Marketing and Strategy Officer Yusuf Mehdi spun his reaction to the PR challenges surrounding the Xbox One of late. And it's true, consumers around the world (and around the Internet) loudly expressed how much they dislike the changes Microsoft announced to its game licensing terms (and online requirements) for the Xbox One last Thursday, giving Sony the ammunition it needed to win E3 by basically doing nothing.
The reaction wasn't a surprise to Mehdi, though. In fact, he said a lot of the way people have responded to Microsoft's moves was "kind of as we expected." But the implication of his statements in an in-depth interview with Ars Technica was that this temporary confusion and discomfort among the audience would be worth it as gamers and consumers adjust to a console world without game discs.
"We're trying to do something pretty big in terms of moving the industry forward for console gaming into the digital world. We believe the digital world is the future, and we believe digital is better."
Mehdi made a comparison to the world of home movie viewing, where inconvenient trips to Blockbuster Video have been replaced with Netflix streaming on practically every TV-connected device. On Xbox One, having all games exist as cloud-connected downloads enables new features like the ability to access your entire library at a friend's house with a single login or loaning games to up to ten "family members" digitally and remotely.
Those digital "benefits" will be available at launch, but Mehdi hinted that the digital rights management transition might unlock some more interesting game access and distribution methods later on. "In the future, you can imagine the capability to have different licensing models, different ways that people have to access games. This all gets unlocked because of digital." He wouldn't get drawn into details, but when I suggested ideas like an "all-you-can-play" Netflix for games or purely digital game rentals, he didn't shoot me down. "Sure. It could be a variety of ways."
Mehdi also suggested that the transition to a world of strictly downloadable and online-connected games would help allow for "a diversity of business models" for publishers to take advantage of, from free-to-play titles to $60 AAA games to Xbox Live Arcade games somewhere in between. "As you go into a digital world, what's happening is publishers are choosing to have different business models, and consumers are saying 'Hey, if I can't resell the title, provide me a different way to get value to get into your game.' And we think the market will be efficient in finding good models that work for consumers." In essence, Mehdi said, consumer demand for good value from games will drive prices down, even if a publisher decides to fully cut off the market release valve of used game resale.
Publishers, of course, have been the most forceful proponents of cutting off the used game market, with some suggesting that used games are comparable to piracy for their bottom line. But Mehdi said that Microsoft wasn't simply "giving in" to publisher demands with its new game licensing terms. Instead, it was trying to balance the needs of its four main "constituents," including the consumer (who comes "first and foremost" he said), game publishers, retailers, and Microsoft itself as a company.
"Within that, we've tried to optimize, and I think we've found a great balance across all of those dimensions," Mehdi said. "But there are tradeoffs. We do want to support everyone in that system, beginning with the consumer. But we want publishers to get paid for the great IP they work on. We want retailers to be able to drive and sell our products and make a profit. So we are trying to balance across all those."
Mehdi noted that purely digital game marketplaces like the iOS App Store have thrived despite having absolutely no physical media. Implementing that kind of disc-free system on the Xbox One "may not [have been] the best thing for consumers, and it may not [have been] the thing they [would have] wanted," Mehdi said, which is part of why Microsoft decided to keep discs as an option. Still, he did concede that, without discs, the licensing norms for the system "would be easier to understand."
The way Mehdi talked about Microsoft's licensing decisions reinforced the idea that he saw the limited abilities to share and transfer Xbox One games as a step up from other, purely digital marketplaces, even if some others see it as a step down from current disc-based distribution systems. On the Xbox One, Mehdi said the company has "tried to… bridge the two in a way that no one has done—to give you the power of digital and then give you all this power in physical. … We know we're providing a lot more value to consumers, but in that comes a lot of need to clarify 'how come disc, how come digital, how's that work?'"
While the Internet is decidedly up in arms about the way the Xbox One handles game ownership and online check-ins, Mehdi said it was "hard to say" what the larger reaction from the less attentive mainstream consumers would be. "I think it's fair to say there's a segment of consumers at this show in particular who really pay attention, who are very passionate about all aspects of gaming, and that we listen to closely. In a broader set of community, people don't pay attention to a lot of the details. We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points."
One data point in particular Mehdi pointed to was the success of the initial pre-orders for the Xbox One, which started as soon as Microsoft's press conference concluded Monday. "Amazon basically says they are on path to sell out… Amazon is saying it's one of their best-selling consumer products. We're seeing the same thing from other retailers." To be fair, PlayStation 4 pre-orders were also a quick sell-out on Amazon after the company's press conference on Monday. Still, "it's very clear there are a wide variety of other consumers that love to game that are excited about what we have to offer with Xbox One," Mehdi said.
While the Xbox One will sell for $100 more than the PlayStation 4, Mehdi suggested that the extra money spent would be worthwhile to consumers looking for the "best value" in their next gaming system. Besides exclusive titles and gaming content, Mehdi said players would see value in the system being "backed by 300,000 servers backed by Microsoft that enable incredible game experiences." Also, Mehdi said, the Kinect in each box provides for better gameplay and "ease of use for the entire system." Things like live TV support and exclusive NFL and Skype partnerships will also help show consumers the Xbox One's "tremendous value."
"We want to have our offering be differentiated relative to all others," he said. "It has value that is in so many areas that is not in competing systems… That is a thing that each consumer will choose… and ultimately consumers will decide which is better. It's a big market."
It’s a “family” affair
Since its announcement, there has been some confusion over the details of sharing your Xbox One game library with up to ten "family members." Mehdi couldn't give comprehensive details, but he did clarify some things.
For one, a family member doesn't have to be a "blood relative," he said, eliminating the extremely unlikely possibility that the Xbox One would include a built-in blood testing kit. For another, they don't have to live in the primary owner's house—I could name a friend that lives 3,000 miles away as one of my "family members" Mehdi said.
You'll be able to link other Xbox Live accounts as having shared access to your library when you first set up a system and will also be able to add them later on (though specific details of how you manage these relationships is still not being discussed). The only limitation, it seems, is that only one person can be playing the shared copy of a single game at any given time. All in all, this does sound like a pretty convenient feature that's more workable than simply passing discs around amongst friends who are actually in your area.
This is the extremely diplomatic way Microsoft Xbox Chief Marketing and Strategy Officer Yusuf Mehdi spun his reaction to the PR challenges surrounding the Xbox One of late. And it's true, consumers around the world (and around the Internet) loudly expressed how much they dislike the changes Microsoft announced to its game licensing terms (and online requirements) for the Xbox One last Thursday, giving Sony the ammunition it needed to win E3 by basically doing nothing.
The reaction wasn't a surprise to Mehdi, though. In fact, he said a lot of the way people have responded to Microsoft's moves was "kind of as we expected." But the implication of his statements in an in-depth interview with Ars Technica was that this temporary confusion and discomfort among the audience would be worth it as gamers and consumers adjust to a console world without game discs.
"We're trying to do something pretty big in terms of moving the industry forward for console gaming into the digital world. We believe the digital world is the future, and we believe digital is better."
Mehdi made a comparison to the world of home movie viewing, where inconvenient trips to Blockbuster Video have been replaced with Netflix streaming on practically every TV-connected device. On Xbox One, having all games exist as cloud-connected downloads enables new features like the ability to access your entire library at a friend's house with a single login or loaning games to up to ten "family members" digitally and remotely.
Those digital "benefits" will be available at launch, but Mehdi hinted that the digital rights management transition might unlock some more interesting game access and distribution methods later on. "In the future, you can imagine the capability to have different licensing models, different ways that people have to access games. This all gets unlocked because of digital." He wouldn't get drawn into details, but when I suggested ideas like an "all-you-can-play" Netflix for games or purely digital game rentals, he didn't shoot me down. "Sure. It could be a variety of ways."
Mehdi also suggested that the transition to a world of strictly downloadable and online-connected games would help allow for "a diversity of business models" for publishers to take advantage of, from free-to-play titles to $60 AAA games to Xbox Live Arcade games somewhere in between. "As you go into a digital world, what's happening is publishers are choosing to have different business models, and consumers are saying 'Hey, if I can't resell the title, provide me a different way to get value to get into your game.' And we think the market will be efficient in finding good models that work for consumers." In essence, Mehdi said, consumer demand for good value from games will drive prices down, even if a publisher decides to fully cut off the market release valve of used game resale.
Publishers, of course, have been the most forceful proponents of cutting off the used game market, with some suggesting that used games are comparable to piracy for their bottom line. But Mehdi said that Microsoft wasn't simply "giving in" to publisher demands with its new game licensing terms. Instead, it was trying to balance the needs of its four main "constituents," including the consumer (who comes "first and foremost" he said), game publishers, retailers, and Microsoft itself as a company.
"Within that, we've tried to optimize, and I think we've found a great balance across all of those dimensions," Mehdi said. "But there are tradeoffs. We do want to support everyone in that system, beginning with the consumer. But we want publishers to get paid for the great IP they work on. We want retailers to be able to drive and sell our products and make a profit. So we are trying to balance across all those."
Mehdi noted that purely digital game marketplaces like the iOS App Store have thrived despite having absolutely no physical media. Implementing that kind of disc-free system on the Xbox One "may not [have been] the best thing for consumers, and it may not [have been] the thing they [would have] wanted," Mehdi said, which is part of why Microsoft decided to keep discs as an option. Still, he did concede that, without discs, the licensing norms for the system "would be easier to understand."
The way Mehdi talked about Microsoft's licensing decisions reinforced the idea that he saw the limited abilities to share and transfer Xbox One games as a step up from other, purely digital marketplaces, even if some others see it as a step down from current disc-based distribution systems. On the Xbox One, Mehdi said the company has "tried to… bridge the two in a way that no one has done—to give you the power of digital and then give you all this power in physical. … We know we're providing a lot more value to consumers, but in that comes a lot of need to clarify 'how come disc, how come digital, how's that work?'"
While the Internet is decidedly up in arms about the way the Xbox One handles game ownership and online check-ins, Mehdi said it was "hard to say" what the larger reaction from the less attentive mainstream consumers would be. "I think it's fair to say there's a segment of consumers at this show in particular who really pay attention, who are very passionate about all aspects of gaming, and that we listen to closely. In a broader set of community, people don't pay attention to a lot of the details. We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points."
One data point in particular Mehdi pointed to was the success of the initial pre-orders for the Xbox One, which started as soon as Microsoft's press conference concluded Monday. "Amazon basically says they are on path to sell out… Amazon is saying it's one of their best-selling consumer products. We're seeing the same thing from other retailers." To be fair, PlayStation 4 pre-orders were also a quick sell-out on Amazon after the company's press conference on Monday. Still, "it's very clear there are a wide variety of other consumers that love to game that are excited about what we have to offer with Xbox One," Mehdi said.
While the Xbox One will sell for $100 more than the PlayStation 4, Mehdi suggested that the extra money spent would be worthwhile to consumers looking for the "best value" in their next gaming system. Besides exclusive titles and gaming content, Mehdi said players would see value in the system being "backed by 300,000 servers backed by Microsoft that enable incredible game experiences." Also, Mehdi said, the Kinect in each box provides for better gameplay and "ease of use for the entire system." Things like live TV support and exclusive NFL and Skype partnerships will also help show consumers the Xbox One's "tremendous value."
"We want to have our offering be differentiated relative to all others," he said. "It has value that is in so many areas that is not in competing systems… That is a thing that each consumer will choose… and ultimately consumers will decide which is better. It's a big market."
It’s a “family” affair
Since its announcement, there has been some confusion over the details of sharing your Xbox One game library with up to ten "family members." Mehdi couldn't give comprehensive details, but he did clarify some things.
For one, a family member doesn't have to be a "blood relative," he said, eliminating the extremely unlikely possibility that the Xbox One would include a built-in blood testing kit. For another, they don't have to live in the primary owner's house—I could name a friend that lives 3,000 miles away as one of my "family members" Mehdi said.
You'll be able to link other Xbox Live accounts as having shared access to your library when you first set up a system and will also be able to add them later on (though specific details of how you manage these relationships is still not being discussed). The only limitation, it seems, is that only one person can be playing the shared copy of a single game at any given time. All in all, this does sound like a pretty convenient feature that's more workable than simply passing discs around amongst friends who are actually in your area.
Second, the bolded part regarding family members, if true, is far greater in value than being able to buy and sell used games.
#2928
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
Yeah that's been the big ? so far.
#2929
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
Seriously. Hell, get him to do PR for all the other MS stuff too. He's the only one so far who seems to be able to explain the plan in understandable terms without sounding like an asshole. (so far)
Yup. As the "owner" of a game, you can play it anytime and on any console you want. But your "family members" cannot play at the same time as each other, and ONE can play at the same time as you, the owner. That's how I understand the policy. I think that's more than fair.
Second, the bolded part regarding family members, if true, is far greater in value than being able to buy and sell used games.
#2930
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From: San Diego
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
Holy shit! The best case scenario of the "family" sharing is true!?! I'm amazed. Hopefully you can just pick 10 people from your friends list to be your family, possibly with the inability to remove them and add another without a fee or a waiting period? That would clear up people just switching friends out left and right to take advantage of the system. I would totally be fine with that.
#2931
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
Holy shit! The best case scenario of the "family" sharing is true!?! I'm amazed. Hopefully you can just pick 10 people from your friends list to be your family, possibly with the inability to remove them and add another without a fee or a waiting period? That would clear up people just switching friends out left and right to take advantage of the system. I would totally be fine with that.

Hell, I'll throw it out here now: If there's anyone here buying an XO at launch, and feels comfortable being "family" on Live, PM me. I'm getting at least two launch titles (if I don't cancel my pre-order, of course... but now I'm finding less reasons to do so).
#2932
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From: San Diego
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
Yeah its perfect, basically just have a sharing buddy or two, and take turns buying games or playing stuff you normally would not go buy yourself.
#2933
DVD Talk God
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
Pretty much how most expected it. I like the idea of it, but I still want to see the practical applications of it.
#2934
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From: San Antonio
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
This sounds sort of like the way PS3 used to work where you could have your account on 5 machines...the only difference being that most stuff could be played by every account on a PS3 and most of it simultaneously. I think the policy is two machines now, and it's been complicated in some way that I can't recall for PS+.
If there's not another catch, you could work out a network of sorts...take turns buying games...and passing them to the next guy when you are done with them via them being family. If people were willing to wait for sloppy seconds-ninths and were willing to work the logistics and communications, that could be a great system for single-player experiences (i.e. most games worth playing).
If there's not another catch, you could work out a network of sorts...take turns buying games...and passing them to the next guy when you are done with them via them being family. If people were willing to wait for sloppy seconds-ninths and were willing to work the logistics and communications, that could be a great system for single-player experiences (i.e. most games worth playing).
#2935
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Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
I believe the PS3 required/requires the original purchaser to have their account on your system to install the game? Seems like XBOX won't require you to actually share the account etc.
#2937
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Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
Pretty much dismisses the whole "can't lend a game to a friend" debate, since this is way better. Now I can lend ALL my games to a friend in a completely different state without either of us getting off the couch.
#2938
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
And if you've ever lent a game to a friend who conveniently kept forgetting to give it back, then this is also a better solution, since you can still play the game yourself AND you can cut him off your family list if he's playing it 24/7, and you want another "family member" to have a try.
Commence circle-jerk! *fap*
Commence circle-jerk! *fap*
#2939
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From: San Antonio
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
I wouldn't for a minute assume (as much as you guys would like to) that Microsoft hasn't considered the implications of sharing games the way we are describing here. Their priority seems to have been protection of profit for them and for developers, and I'd be shocked if the way it was described is their actual plan.
#2940
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Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
That's what I initially thought, but MS confirmed it themselves. Granted, it's still not 100% detailed but it's closer than the vague line from a week ago. At least it is moving in the right direction. Even if I can only share a game or two at a time and with one or two friend, I would be happy.
#2941
Banned by request
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
I like the Kindle-style 3G idea, but that still doesn't address people living on submarines, or soldiers in the middle of nowhere... 
A "random disc check" is a terrible idea, though. That sort of thing has to be all the time, or none of the time. I don't want to get settled in, ready for an 8-hour Fallout session, only to have the console say, "Sorry dude! It looks like you haven't put the disc in for the last five times you played. How about you pop that sucker in so we know you're not a dirty thieving cockroach?"

A "random disc check" is a terrible idea, though. That sort of thing has to be all the time, or none of the time. I don't want to get settled in, ready for an 8-hour Fallout session, only to have the console say, "Sorry dude! It looks like you haven't put the disc in for the last five times you played. How about you pop that sucker in so we know you're not a dirty thieving cockroach?"
#2942
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
I wouldn't for a minute assume (as much as you guys would like to) that Microsoft hasn't considered the implications of sharing games the way we are describing here. Their priority seems to have been protection of profit for them and for developers, and I'd be shocked if the way it was described is their actual plan.
#2943
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
So they'd rather keep the existing scheme that allows 10 (or more) accounts to share a single copy, just by passing the disc around? At least in the MS method, it's limited to 2 simultaneous users of those 10, which is a nice bonus. You will not have 10 friends sharing one copy so they can all play CoD 23: Cthulhu Reigns at the same time.
#2944
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
Cracked has a great article up called "5 Things Every Game Company Gets Wrong About Gamers" - there are some solid points, but this one stood out:
But I'm sad because the makers of the next-gen systems (and yes, Microsoft most of all) seem to have made a conscious decision to turn console gaming into a luxury product, aimed only at the high-end enthusiasts. It's perfectly fine from a business point of view -- that 25 percent of hardcore gamers I mentioned earlier also probably spend more on gaming than the rest of the audience combined, so why not shrink the base to just the most lucrative customers? I can't argue with them -- it's a free market, they don't owe us anything. I just hate to think that had I been born to my not-very-rich family a few decades later than I was, I wouldn't have had so many of the shared experiences that defined my childhood.
#2946
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
I do. $500 for a console. $60 a year for service. $60 games. It's a pretty pricey hobby for anyone without a job.
It is kinda baffling.
How is sharing a game with 10 people better than cutting out used copies? Cutting out the disc removes Gamestop from the equation but it doesn't put more money into the developers pocket. Does a single disc at Gamestop get bought/resold 10 times? Doubtful. Kinda weird scenario they have going on.
It is the best case scenario though which is a lone bright spot in a sea of shit.
How is sharing a game with 10 people better than cutting out used copies? Cutting out the disc removes Gamestop from the equation but it doesn't put more money into the developers pocket. Does a single disc at Gamestop get bought/resold 10 times? Doubtful. Kinda weird scenario they have going on.
It is the best case scenario though which is a lone bright spot in a sea of shit.
#2947
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From: Formerly known as "orangecrush18" - still legal though
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
Holy shit! The best case scenario of the "family" sharing is true!?! I'm amazed. Hopefully you can just pick 10 people from your friends list to be your family, possibly with the inability to remove them and add another without a fee or a waiting period? That would clear up people just switching friends out left and right to take advantage of the system. I would totally be fine with that.
). Still, this should shut up the people who are complaining about loaning games to friends.
#2948
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From: Formerly known as "orangecrush18" - still legal though
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
You and I both know that you don't have to pay anywhere near that to game as a hobby. Even if that were the out of pocket cost, it is still cheaper in real terms than the start of the last generation of games (and the one before that). If you want to stay a little behind the curve, you can game for really cheap.
#2949
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
Haven't videogames always been expensive though? Just a quick search and I see this article:
http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/12/09/...todays-prices/
which references the 199 for an Atari 2600, which would go for 700+ in 2011 (not to mention TVs were probably a luxury as well). Of course, technology comes down in price eventually, and maybe as kids we didn't always get it at launch (or it wasn't as big of a deal as it is today), but even new game prices have stayed relatively stagnant over the years. That's kinda what makes a decision to not go after the core gamers so baffling to me; the core gamers are your early adopters, especially at that price point, and only when there are technology improvements and price drops do the casual fans or those with lower income levels come in.
http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/12/09/...todays-prices/
which references the 199 for an Atari 2600, which would go for 700+ in 2011 (not to mention TVs were probably a luxury as well). Of course, technology comes down in price eventually, and maybe as kids we didn't always get it at launch (or it wasn't as big of a deal as it is today), but even new game prices have stayed relatively stagnant over the years. That's kinda what makes a decision to not go after the core gamers so baffling to me; the core gamers are your early adopters, especially at that price point, and only when there are technology improvements and price drops do the casual fans or those with lower income levels come in.
#2950
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection



