I have a feeling this is the real setlist which would explain GH being hush about the list. Unless they are scrambling at the last minute to avoid duplicates and get another song because whoever is second, is the one who copied.

Don't you think the developers know well ahead of time what songs are going to be in the other game? For instance, if Harmonix is talking to the Foo Fighters' "people," don't you imagine they would tell Harmonix that this song is going to be in GH4?

Yep, the lack of communication channels (or simply not caring) is disturbing. GH better make sure their DLC is in singles or they will really suffer with their forced packs because of the frequency of double dipping going on.

They're being hush about the list is simple marketing strategy and exactly what they did for GH2 and GH3. It's obvious that neither company is all that concerned with duplicate songs... and from a business standpoint they shouldn't be.

That was an error in my bolding skills. [/b[ just doesn't seem to work. :)

Also, bolded the other three songs I missed (Jimmy Eat World, Foo Fighters, and Dinosaur Jr.).

I don't agree. Having this many duplicates will cut down the number of people who buy both.

It is a poor marketing strategy (though understood now with the duplicates) and a poor business decision. Consumers of the music games are far better informed now and duplicates will have an effect.

Right, but isn't that kind of the goal? I don't think either one really wants people to buy both, especially with both focused now on DLC as the cash cow.

It's hard for me to say that if a company spends the licensing and authoring time and money only to have a duplicate that they shouldn't release it as planned. It could be a matter of their user base requesting a specific song, or a matter of material available to them.

Sure, from a consumer end it blows, though.

The problem you guys have is that you're looking at this from a consumer standpoint, not a business standpoint.

You are correct that it will cut down the number of people who buy both, but they can't and shouldn't worry about that. If I'm Neversoft, I get the songs I want for my game even if RB2 is going to have some of the same songs because I'm confident my game is going to outsell theirs and what the hell do I care if people don't buy RB2. That's what I want. Red Octane is going to see the issue that they're coming out first so screw GH:WT because I don't want consumers buying the competitions game.

The second thing is you get the best song period. If I really want "Everlong" in my game because focus groups and market research show that it will sell copies more than any other Foo Fighters song, I put that song in my game. If there's a consumer out there who loves the Foo Fighters and only has the cash for one game (a common occurance at these price points) I'm not going to give him a reason to choose RB2 over me. I'm not going to say, oh they've got "Everlong" we'll put in "This Is A Call" because I know that song isn't as well known and won't sell as many copies of the game for me.

Nope, looking at it from a business standpoint. And GH has not done a good job handling the competition from RB. It has been poorly handled.

I don't know, I'd say RB2 will be hurt more by duplicate songs than GH4, no matter who announced their list first.

You're looking at it from a hardcore gamer standpoint as I've pointed out numerous times, sales between the two games are night and day. I agree with aktick, despite the earlier release, I think it is RB2 that will be hurt by this.

Nope. I am looking at it from branding and marketing. This is an area I am well-versed on. GH had a dominating product. And you can't compare sales as RB has just entered the market. They are taking market share by branding themselves as the originator of full band games, as the DLC innovator and leader, etc...

GH has done very little to curb the competition and has simply rested on their brand name, which is not a smart business strategy long term. They had ample opportunities to defend their market share and they chose not to. Dumb move.

I don't know, I think this one is up in the air and there is a distinct possibility of co-existence here.

It's hard to compare RB1 to the GH franchise because they were different beasts and GH had an install base.

There is no comparison on what a full-blown GH:WT game will yield in sales, but you can assume it would be roughly inline with what RB1 was.

However with the announcement and expected hardware cross-compatibility, I think you're going to see a very equal sales pattern emerge. Hardware might slant one way or the other, but I think the software will sell on both sides of the aisle.

Most of us already have enough instruments to play either.

I think there is a very small minority of "brand loyalists". And now that we don't have to worry about sticking to one path, thanks to the HW-compatibilities, I think those numbers will dwindle even further.

One thing Neversoft did right regarding DLC are the free songs. How many free songs are available on Rock Band, [crickets].

Speaking of marketing, I don't remember seeing this in this thread yet. Here's the bundle box art Amazon has for GH:WT:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...hL._SS400_.jpg

They have to explicitly state "Complete Band Game" on there to offset the "Guitar Hero" brand name. I don't think "Rock Band" will have that consumer/grandma block.

I want them to co-exist. I want them to be equal as that will spurn benefits to the consumer. Look what happened when Madden and 2K were going at it, we were getting great games. Now, not so much. But from a business standpoint, you have to do everything in your power to protect your brand and your market share. GH more or less did very little.

Not sure how you can say they've rested on their brand name. GH:WT has a full band plus you can create songs with a rather full featured editor. I think that's going to be a huge selling point for GH over RB.

Sales will be very telling this time around because it will basically be two identical products competing.

I agree. But not capitalizing on the DLC front, the horrible decision of GH:A (which I bought and love), the E3 ripple, etc...

I have no horse in this race. I am going to freaking buy Rock Revolution. But I think they allowed way too much encroachment on their brand and market share without employing obvious, first year marketing and business strategies to counter a competitor.

With the song creator and its free downloads, and Activision upping their game in the DLC area I expect GH4 to dominate. Since I have Wii and they are dedicating a team just to Wii game content, adding stuff just for Wii owners I will be getting GH:WT full band kit. Now if the WT hardware is fully compatible with RB1 and RB2 I will buy the RB1 and RB2 discs. If not then it will be quite a while before I invest in RB titles.

I expect Wii owners to consume this game like mad and really skew the sales. Especially since the Wii GH3 version is the largest selling version. RB has really failed Wii owners. Too little too late, and then to announce RB2 a few days after RB1 is out? They killed any sales they may have had for Wii.

:lol: The marketing argument again. I still don't see it, and I've still yet to see examples of how Guitar Hero has been suffering from poor marketing or not releasing a full set list.

Right, 2 by my count to crap, something like 10 for GH?

If anything GH suffers from over-saturation with all the spin-offs(Aerosmith, On Tour, Air Band, keychain guitars, action figures, commercials featureing Slash and Aerosmith, etc.), seriously the shit is everywhere. As for DLC they don't have the sheer numbers but they have given us mostly mainstream artists with popular tunes, not to mention a dozen freebies.

Oh well I'm equally baffled by that stance but I think it's time to let that beast die. It's all kinda silly anyway since most of us will be buying both. We just like being armchair analysts while we're bored at work. :lol:

Two now, plus supposedly 20 more for RB2 on launch day.

SEGER AND THE EAGLES.

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That is all.