DVD Talk Forum - Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

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Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

I'm loving this game. The humor and atmosphere are perfect. Love the cameos, the animation, all of it. I've played far worse games that have had much more hype.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

I am having a good time playing as well. Trying to make it last, and take my time.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

I'm enjoying it as well. I bought Uncharted 2 and have yet to play it although I know it is the better game. However, I'm enjoying playing Brutal Legend and that is all that really matters.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

I'm liking the game too, but one thing bugs the shit out of me. Seriously people, it's 2009, can we have more than 1 save game for fucks sake? I just know my roommate is going to forget to choose his profile, then hit x really quick on new game and erase my game. Other than that it is a great game if not a bit boring on the gameplay.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Summoning the Deuce takes too long.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinata242 (Post 9775741)

Summoning the Deuce takes too long.

It usually does take a while to drop a Deuce.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinata242 (Post 9775741)

Summoning the Deuce takes too long.

And why must it completely disappear when I do some challenges?

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfro (Post 9775757)

And why must it completely disappear when I do some challenges?

Flushing isn't a challenge. /dsa_shea

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

I have the profanity filter on because it's funnier. But it's really funny when you mess up on the solos and hear him get pissed :lol:

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Have you guys

Spoiler:

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Quote:

Originally Posted by glassdragon (Post 9776582)

Have you guys

Spoiler:

LOL, yeah. That might've been the most hilarious surprise I've run into yet.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

I have no idea what the fuck is going on anymore. The new RTSness has confused the fuck out of me. I'm just kind of fumbling through it. :lol:

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Yeah, I think the penny-arcade guy hit the nail on the head:

Quote:

I knew from Interviews that it had "RTS Elements," but I've reached a part of the game where there's a whole lot of RTS going on, and it's not a genre for which I have much aptitude - particularly with a gamepad. At the same time, my healer units drive around on huge motorcycles emitting waves of healing bass. This is what we in the business call an impasse: a game I like, but don't especially want to play. The brochure would look something like: "Come for the incredible art and unique comedic voice. Stay for the... You know, like, stay for... for the... Hmm."

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

My problem isn't with the way the RTS plays, but with the fact that there are now so many units on the screen that it's causing severe slowdown.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

from Kotaku

Tim Schafer Explains How To Play Brutal Legend
In an open letter on the Double Fine community site Brutal Legend developer and Double Fine head honcho Tim Schafer explains how best to play Brutal Legend and reminds everyone that the game isn't a real-time strategy game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Schafer

It is a historical fact that it began its life as an RTS game, inspired by Herzog Zwei. But then as we worked on it we simplified it, and simplified it, and focused it more and more on the player avatar and the combat. Every time we focused the gameplay on the action, it became more fun. The end result is something much more action-oriented, and I think, totally unique. If you try to play the stage battles in Brütal Legend as an RTS game then you will lose. First you will get mad, then you will scream, and then you will lose. But if you are open to a new kind of action experience, you will have a blast.

Read the full letter, also sent to Kotaku, on the jump.

First, a note on the differences: In an RTS game you float high above the action, making one split-second strategic decision after another. You often command individual units to position them based on their heath and context. In Brütal Legend, you make strategic choices once in a while, but then you jump into the battle and slug it out in person. You can fly, but it's mostly for quick scouting and transportation. You will spend a few seconds every once in a while popping into a menu to build troops or pick a guitar solo, but then you should be right back in the action. To play the game most effectively you need to be on the ground with your army most of the time, mixing it up with your axe, and your guitar, but most of all-using your Double Team attacks.

Double Team attacks are critical to your success in Stage Battles. Every friendly unit in your army has a move that they can only perform in conjunction with the player character. These moves are extremely varied, extremely powerful, and extremely fun to perform. Sometimes you might simply gain control that unit's weapon-for instance, when a Razor Girl jumps up on your shoulders-but when you do so you increase it's damage significantly. Other units, like the Bride, seem to be just passive, debuffing units most of the time (the Bride slows down enemy units) but when you Double Team with her she has a devastating lighting attack. More complicated Double Teams include the Frightwig, who Ophelia can pick up and throw onto an enemy unit. The Frightwig then wraps itself around the enemy's head and causes the victim to join Ophelia's side in the battle. (You can even use this to commandeer the enemy's Rock Crusher!) The Organist is another passive unit whose Double Team attack allows you to gain direct player control over an enemy unit, giving you command over whatever attacks they normally have.

There are important strategic choices to make in Stage Battles. Should I spend my fans to upgrade my stage and gain access to more powerful units, or should I spend it now on cheap infantry? Which fan geysers should I fight for and which should I concede? What is the right time to block my enemies troop production with a Rock Block solo? Would anti-infantry units be better against the current enemy army, or should I switch to anti-vehicle? But these strategic decisions only take a second, and then you should get right back in the action. You should never be up in the air or away from the battle for too long.

Some people find it hard to split up the army and give individual orders to individual troops. This is kinda true, mostly because you shouldn't be doing it! That's how you play an RTS game, not how you should play Brütal Legend. True, there are times where you might want to split your army, but it's not common. I play complete Stage Battles most of the time without issuing a single Individual order. Your army is most effective when it's together. The AI automatically groups your warriors into battle formations where the troops support each other. Many of the units buff or heal each other. When they are together they can all be enhanced with a single Battle Cry (or other buffing) solo. And when they are all together and you are in the middle of them, that is when you have the greatest number of options for Double Team attacks.

So to summarize my advice for playing Brütal Legend Stage Battles:
Get in the center of the action!
Use Double Team attacks!
Don't stay in the air too long!
Use Double Team attacks!!
For the most part, keep your army together!
Use Double Team attacks!!!
Don't think of it as an RTS game!

If you have tried the Stage Battles before reading these tips, and felt overwhelmed by the controls, or frustrated with the lack of detailed troop controls, I'm hoping you will be able to take this info and go back into the fray and be much more successful. We know that the Stage Battles are tons of fun for most players-and for people who are open to new kinds of action gameplay experiences, they are in fact the core of what makes Brütal Legend a fun game experience and unlike any other. I'll see you online!

-TimOfLegend (that's my name on both XBL and PSN. Play against me and you'll get an achievement!)

P.S. Here are some more tips from our Lead Designer, Erik Robson

Spoiler:

General Tips
*Early in the game, low-level troops are vulnerable to enemy Avatar harassment; make sure you watch over them and protect them if necessary.
*USE YOUR DOUBLE TEAMS!
*Don't play timidly. The game is about projecting power and taking control of territory. If you try to play defensively and stay in or near your base, you'll be at a resource disadvantage.
*If you set the beacon on a building, your dudes will attack the building until it's destroyed, ignoring any incoming attacks.
*The right solo played at the right time can be devastating - don't forget you have those tools at your disposal!

Ironheade Tips
*Ironheade is extremely mobile - use this to your advantage.
*Razor Girls' Double Team is great for dealing with early-game Avatar harassment.
*Remember that you can upgrade your level 1 troops once your stage hits level 3. If you've spent the game massing up those small infantry, an upgrade can really pay off.

Drowning Doom Tips
*Gravediggers, while more numerous, have lower health than other basic melee troops. They may need extra support in the early game.
*Use your debuffers (Bride, Organ, and Dirgible). They're powerful, and the Bride and Organ stack their debilitating effects.
*Bride's Double Team is great for dealing with early-game Avatar harassment.
*Remember that you can upgrade your level 1 troops once your stage hits level 3. If you've spent the game massing up those small infantry, an upgrade can really pay off.

Tainted Coil Tips
*Your hierarchy units (Nuns, Warfather, and Overblessers) are extremely vulnerable while alone. They're much safer when they're surrounded by minions, because they get a small stacking healing bonus from each nearby minion.
*Punishing Parties' Double Team is good for dealing with early-game Avatar harassment.
*Remember your Superior and Divine troops - for example, if you build a Warfather, he can then build a Superior Nun, which in turn can produce Superior Soul Kissers and Punishing Parties. Superior and Divine squads are more powerful than the basic troops, but cost the same!

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

It's hard to tell my units from the baddies and there's no way to know where everyone is. Penny Arcade comment is pretty spot-on right now. The gameplay gets in the way.

I think comparisons to Pikmin or Overlord were extremely premature and uneducated. I'm sure it'll come with time.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Thanks for that, Decker. It's sort of what I was resigning myself to. Good to know i'm on the right path.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suprmallet (Post 9776769)

My problem isn't with the way the RTS plays, but with the fact that there are now so many units on the screen that it's causing severe slowdown.

I was wrong. Turns out that's the ability of one of the enemy units, to slow down my units.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suprmallet (Post 9776907)

I was wrong. Turns out that's the ability of one of the enemy units, to slow down my units.

Ha! I had the same issue. I was all WTF? Then I saw the tip in the loading screen. :lol:

Although there does seem to be stalling/stuttering issues here and there outside of those occurances as well. :(

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

I don't know. I was thinking about getting this game for one of my TRU purchases, but it sounds like too much work and not enough fun to play. What do you all think? Is it worth it as a purchase for a casual gamer without a big metal background or should I wait for this one to drop?

Honestly, I'm leaning more towards keeping MUA 2 instead. I know this is a better-reviewed and far more original game, but I'm worried that I will become frustrating and I'll end up quiting way too early. That's what happened to me with Overlord.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decker (Post 9776916)

Is it worth it as a purchase for a casual gamer without a big metal background or should I wait for this one to drop?

I think this part nails it. The story is fun thus far, the voice acting is fantastic, but if you're looking at casual, and not being obessed with scouring the map for every little object and side mission you're looking at probably an 8 hour experience. IMO that's not worth a $60 price point. I'm glad I didn't purchase it, but I'm still having a bunch of fun with it.

If I were into the metal featured in the game I would probably put a lot more stock into the value of owning the game as well. Over 100 tracks and it definitely sets the mood. I'm just not that crazy about most of it.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfro (Post 9776925)

If I were into the metal featured in the game I would probably put a lot more stock into the value of owning the game as well. Over 100 tracks and it definitely sets the mood. I'm just not that crazy about most of it.

And there it is. I think everything about this game is cool, but I'm not into Metal culture like that. I like some of the songs, no doubt, but the other stuff is a little over my head. I mean, I get the point of a lot of the gags, but because I don't have that stuff internalized it doesn't work for me on the same level of a metal head.

I was thinking, if the metal stuff was switched out for old school hiphop? I would probably try and marry the game.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Finished the game tonight. I came in at 75% complete with about 9 hours of play. Going back through to try and get a bunch more of the side missions and such over the next few days.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Ultimately I liked it. The Stage Battles took some getting used to, but it isn't that bad.

Like fro, I ended up with about 90% of the stuff after 11 hours or so with no guides. That last 10% is going to be a bitch though since there's no indication of where to look and the world is huge. I honestly can't believe there are 30+ more serpent statues out there that I haven't found.

Re: Tim Schafer's new game: Brutal Legend

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinata242 (Post 9776783)

It's hard to tell my units from the baddies and there's no way to know where everyone is.

Both of these have been frustrating for me too. It's also annoying that there's no easy way to define a distant target, and newly-generated units are on the opposite end of the battlefield and won't join me unless I zip over there first. C'mon, the characters have walkie-talkies...why can't they use 'em?

I'm also in the "lack of a mini-map is annoying" camp.