Microsoft Surprisingly Admits That ALL Xbox 360s Are Defective
#26
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Originally Posted by sniper308
I love it, so MS admits there is an issue and tries to do the right thing, and people use this as evidence to sue them? And people wonder why companies try and cover things up, etc... I agree this lawsuit is BS.
Since launch day Microsoft has denied that there were higher-than-average percentage of defects. Those who experienced repeated problems were accused of being shills for Sony. Gee, those folks were telling the truth after all! Imagine that.
Microsoft admits that there is a serious flaw in their hardware, they need to fix it...for all units. Selectively extending the warranty doesn't remedy the problem. It's purpose is solely to minimize the cost to MS for the repairs. That is not the same thing as providing a remedy for the consumer.
People have had to repeatedly send their 360's in for repairs. The weeks and months that they were without a 360, they were deprived of the device that they already paid for. They should be compensated. Lemon laws for vehicles were created on that premise.
Microsoft has flipped off 360 customers for nearly 2 years. Sorry, but I'm not going to applaud them for doing less than they should. (and to orchestrate the timing of announcements to make them look better than they are is really disgusting)
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People have had to repeatedly send their 360's in for repairs. The weeks and months that they were without a 360, they were deprived of the device that they already paid for. They should be compensated. Lemon laws for vehicles were created on that premise.
And lemon laws came into effect in order to end the practice of new car owners, having made what is typically the second biggest purchase in their life, being stuck to pay for repair after repair after repair with no motivation in place for the manufacturer/dealer to just give them a replacement.
Feel free to explain how MS is similar to that, after their announcement of retroactive warranties and reimbursements.
#28
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Originally Posted by mr.snowmizer
You realize you just advocated pain and suffering compensation for being deprived of playing a 360 while it's being repaired?
Originally Posted by mr.snowmizer
Feel free to explain how MS is similar to that, after their announcement of retroactive warranties and reimbursements.
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Originally Posted by sracer
The problem is that MS knew that it was an issue well before they finally admitted it. Do you think it was simply coincidence that they FIRST announced an extension of the warranty to 3 years for RROD issues BEFORE admitting that all 360's have the problem? Or that the extension was announced BEFORE E3 and the admission came AFTER (MS' E3 presentation)?
Since launch day Microsoft has denied that there were higher-than-average percentage of defects. Those who experienced repeated problems were accused of being shills for Sony. Gee, those folks were telling the truth after all! Imagine that.
Microsoft admits that there is a serious flaw in their hardware, they need to fix it...for all units. Selectively extending the warranty doesn't remedy the problem. It's purpose is solely to minimize the cost to MS for the repairs. That is not the same thing as providing a remedy for the consumer.
People have had to repeatedly send their 360's in for repairs. The weeks and months that they were without a 360, they were deprived of the device that they already paid for. They should be compensated. Lemon laws for vehicles were created on that premise.
Microsoft has flipped off 360 customers for nearly 2 years. Sorry, but I'm not going to applaud them for doing less than they should. (and to orchestrate the timing of announcements to make them look better than they are is really disgusting)
Since launch day Microsoft has denied that there were higher-than-average percentage of defects. Those who experienced repeated problems were accused of being shills for Sony. Gee, those folks were telling the truth after all! Imagine that.
Microsoft admits that there is a serious flaw in their hardware, they need to fix it...for all units. Selectively extending the warranty doesn't remedy the problem. It's purpose is solely to minimize the cost to MS for the repairs. That is not the same thing as providing a remedy for the consumer.
People have had to repeatedly send their 360's in for repairs. The weeks and months that they were without a 360, they were deprived of the device that they already paid for. They should be compensated. Lemon laws for vehicles were created on that premise.
Microsoft has flipped off 360 customers for nearly 2 years. Sorry, but I'm not going to applaud them for doing less than they should. (and to orchestrate the timing of announcements to make them look better than they are is really disgusting)
The lawsuit will NOT benefit anyone but lawyers if it goes forward... MS is doing the right things and better than many companies would do in standing behind its product. Is it unfortunate that this is happening, yes, but very seldom do you see a company do this much unless they have some safety organization breathing down their neck, etc. I think MS is doing a good job at recognizing the issue and doing right by its customers. Hell, I haven't read a lot on the pet food recalls, but I don't see the pet food companies doing as much as MS is doing...
Last edited by sniper308; 07-14-07 at 05:42 PM.
#34
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Originally Posted by mr.snowmizer
So a manufacturer of an entertainment/leisure product that has a widespread problem should pay compensation for the time of repairs?
Microsoft is only acknowledging the RROD issue... not the scratched disc issue (which is a key element of the lawsuit). If you can't see that the timing of the extension of the warranty for RROD only and their admission was simply to make Microsoft look like a good guy, then it is beyond my ability to help you see it.
#35
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UPDATE: Microsoft's Xbox Exec Sold Stock As Problems Surfaced
July 11, 2007: 06:18 PM EST
SAN FRANCISCO (Dow Jones) -- The Microsoft Corp. executive in charge of the Xbox video-game console sold $6.2 million worth of company stock during a period when technical issues with the product were becoming a major concern, according to regulatory filings.
Microsoft said Thursday that it will take a charge of up to $1.15 billion to its fourth-quarter earnings to address what it called an "unacceptable" number of Xbox repairs.
"In the last couple of months, we started to see significant increases in repair requests ... and significant attention from people," Robbie Bach, president of the entertainment and devices unit that includes the Xbox, said during a conference call with analysts at the time. "So we geared up to respond to that."
According to a review of filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, Bach sold $6.2 million in stock in the period between May 2 and Thursday's announcement. That followed an eight-month period when he sold no company shares, according to filings.
Microsoft shares were little affected by the Xbox announcement, dropping in heavy after-hours trading Thursday to $29.88, and falling only slightly to $ 29.32 by the end of trading Tuesday. The shares were up slightly to $29.62 in Wednesday trading.
Bach's most recent insider sales came between May 25 and May 30, according to filings.
Bach was not available to comment. Microsoft spokesman Eric Hollreiser said that "Robbie Bach's past trading is completely unrelated to last week's announcement. ... [He] continues to hold a significant stake in Microsoft and remains confident in the long-term success of the company."
The spokesman added that while Microsoft may have known about mounting Xbox problems for some months, a decision on how to deal with them financially was reached "much more recently."
On Thursday last week, Microsoft identified a specific problem that had come to be commonly known among gamers as the "Red Ring of Death" -- a hardware failure marked by the flashing of three red lights on an Xbox.
Microsoft (MSFT) said that it will reimburse Xbox customers who have paid for repairs resulting from the failure, and the company expanded its warranty program for machines experiencing the failure from one year to three years.
Along with news of the technical failure, Microsoft also announced that it came in shy of prior estimates of Xbox sales, with 11.6 million sold by the end of June. The company said in January that it expected to sell 12 million consoles by the end of June.
Gates, others sell
In the roughly two months before to last week's announcement, Bach ranked third in insider-share sales, behind general counsel Brad Smith, and well behind chairman and co-founder Bill Gates, consistently a top insider selling stock. Hollreiser said that Smith's sales were of company stock options, and that he used proceeds to make further purchases of Microsoft shares.
Corporate executives are often enrolled in scheduled selling plans to insulate them from the perception that stock sales may be related to insider information. Bach's insider sales during the roughly two-month period prior to the Xbox failure announcement, however, were not done according to a scheduled plan, filings indicate.
Ben Silverman, director of research at Indie Research, a firm that tracks insider sales for investors, said that insider sales at unfortunate times often occur by chance. "It doesn't necessarily mean [insiders] think that there will be a bad event; it could just be financial planning. But sometimes it just looks bad that an insider has sold stock.
"I'd give [Bach] the benefit of the doubt here, especially because the stock didn't move very much" after last week's announcement, Silverman commented.
While the Xbox announcement hardly affected Microsoft's share price, it did strike a sour note with some analysts.
A.G. Edwards analyst Kevin Buttigieg wrote in a note last Friday that while Microsoft "portrayed the Xbox's technical and financial problems as essentially in the past ... Xbox 360's image may still suffer in the eyes of consumers."
Buttigieg said that Microsoft still expects its Xbox business to become profitable sometime during fiscal 2008. "But with continuing issues with the Xbox, we think [Microsoft] will be challenged to attain its profitability goals."
Microsoft is due to report fourth-quarter earnings July 19.
Bach said last week that Microsoft already has developed a technology fix for the red-light failure, which is being implemented in some inventory and in Xbox consoles now in production.
July 11, 2007: 06:18 PM EST
SAN FRANCISCO (Dow Jones) -- The Microsoft Corp. executive in charge of the Xbox video-game console sold $6.2 million worth of company stock during a period when technical issues with the product were becoming a major concern, according to regulatory filings.
Microsoft said Thursday that it will take a charge of up to $1.15 billion to its fourth-quarter earnings to address what it called an "unacceptable" number of Xbox repairs.
"In the last couple of months, we started to see significant increases in repair requests ... and significant attention from people," Robbie Bach, president of the entertainment and devices unit that includes the Xbox, said during a conference call with analysts at the time. "So we geared up to respond to that."
According to a review of filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, Bach sold $6.2 million in stock in the period between May 2 and Thursday's announcement. That followed an eight-month period when he sold no company shares, according to filings.
Microsoft shares were little affected by the Xbox announcement, dropping in heavy after-hours trading Thursday to $29.88, and falling only slightly to $ 29.32 by the end of trading Tuesday. The shares were up slightly to $29.62 in Wednesday trading.
Bach's most recent insider sales came between May 25 and May 30, according to filings.
Bach was not available to comment. Microsoft spokesman Eric Hollreiser said that "Robbie Bach's past trading is completely unrelated to last week's announcement. ... [He] continues to hold a significant stake in Microsoft and remains confident in the long-term success of the company."
The spokesman added that while Microsoft may have known about mounting Xbox problems for some months, a decision on how to deal with them financially was reached "much more recently."
On Thursday last week, Microsoft identified a specific problem that had come to be commonly known among gamers as the "Red Ring of Death" -- a hardware failure marked by the flashing of three red lights on an Xbox.
Microsoft (MSFT) said that it will reimburse Xbox customers who have paid for repairs resulting from the failure, and the company expanded its warranty program for machines experiencing the failure from one year to three years.
Along with news of the technical failure, Microsoft also announced that it came in shy of prior estimates of Xbox sales, with 11.6 million sold by the end of June. The company said in January that it expected to sell 12 million consoles by the end of June.
Gates, others sell
In the roughly two months before to last week's announcement, Bach ranked third in insider-share sales, behind general counsel Brad Smith, and well behind chairman and co-founder Bill Gates, consistently a top insider selling stock. Hollreiser said that Smith's sales were of company stock options, and that he used proceeds to make further purchases of Microsoft shares.
Corporate executives are often enrolled in scheduled selling plans to insulate them from the perception that stock sales may be related to insider information. Bach's insider sales during the roughly two-month period prior to the Xbox failure announcement, however, were not done according to a scheduled plan, filings indicate.
Ben Silverman, director of research at Indie Research, a firm that tracks insider sales for investors, said that insider sales at unfortunate times often occur by chance. "It doesn't necessarily mean [insiders] think that there will be a bad event; it could just be financial planning. But sometimes it just looks bad that an insider has sold stock.
"I'd give [Bach] the benefit of the doubt here, especially because the stock didn't move very much" after last week's announcement, Silverman commented.
While the Xbox announcement hardly affected Microsoft's share price, it did strike a sour note with some analysts.
A.G. Edwards analyst Kevin Buttigieg wrote in a note last Friday that while Microsoft "portrayed the Xbox's technical and financial problems as essentially in the past ... Xbox 360's image may still suffer in the eyes of consumers."
Buttigieg said that Microsoft still expects its Xbox business to become profitable sometime during fiscal 2008. "But with continuing issues with the Xbox, we think [Microsoft] will be challenged to attain its profitability goals."
Microsoft is due to report fourth-quarter earnings July 19.
Bach said last week that Microsoft already has developed a technology fix for the red-light failure, which is being implemented in some inventory and in Xbox consoles now in production.
http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/comp...8-1783_2145890
http://www.computerworld.com/action/...&taxonomyId=15
#36
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No... YOU have been saying that. The lawsuit is to compensate for damaged discs and consoles. It has nothing to do with time lost for repairs...
The weeks and months that they were without a 360, they were deprived of the device that they already paid for. They should be compensated.
#37
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Originally Posted by mr.snowmizer
Uh, anybody reading this thread can see I was responding to this:
Really, I think it's time you put the dutchie down.
Really, I think it's time you put the dutchie down.
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The intent is clear.
A) Person #1 creates the imagery that Person #2 is smoking something, and asks for it.
B) Person #2 then sees Person #1 state something 180 degrees out of odds with what Person #1 was just talking about... leading to the comment that it now must be time for Person #1 to stop smoking it.
If you can read this thread and honestly disagree with either A or B, then yes, I guess it's a personal attack. If not, it's clearly a play on what was written (and not called out in this manner) over five hours earlier.
I'm surprised I have to explain this.
A) Person #1 creates the imagery that Person #2 is smoking something, and asks for it.
B) Person #2 then sees Person #1 state something 180 degrees out of odds with what Person #1 was just talking about... leading to the comment that it now must be time for Person #1 to stop smoking it.
If you can read this thread and honestly disagree with either A or B, then yes, I guess it's a personal attack. If not, it's clearly a play on what was written (and not called out in this manner) over five hours earlier.
I'm surprised I have to explain this.
#44
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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson
Glad I waited a bit since I almost jumped in a couple months ago. I'm looking to get one in Sep when Halo 3 is out. Looks like it should be the "fixed" version?
#45
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I think a class-action lawsuit is proper. MS knowingly sold a defective product. What happens if your Xbox gets red ring of death 3 years and 3 days after you bought it? No warranty. You are fucked and its due to a problem that Microsoft knew about but continued to sell products as if they were OK. What they should have done is taken them off the shelves until they fixed the product. But that would have killed the Xbox.
#46
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Originally Posted by chanster
What happens if your Xbox gets red ring of death 3 years and 3 days after you bought it?
Even if they don't, I would imagine in 3+ years, the 360 will have seen at least two price drops so that you could probably get a premium or elite for $200.
Also, in 3-4 years, the next-gen systems will be emerging and people will be caring less about the 360.
#47
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While your comment may make practical sense, thats not the point. The point is that MS knew they had a problem but continued to sell it. If my PS2 died after 4 years for an unknown reason that was unique to my PS2's wear and tear, I could understand that. What I would not accept is my 360 dying in 4 years for a problem that MS knew about, and was due to defective design, but made no attempt to fix the problem or prevent the unit from being sold.
What MS should do is offer consumers with working 360's to send their working 360 in for a retrofit or give them a new one. Consumers should not be the losers because theirs doesn't break in a certain amount of time. It sure seems like the red ring of death is not an if, but a when.
However, The implied warranties - implied warranty of merchantibility and implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose - have no expiration dates. I'm sure MS disclaimed those warranties in their original warranty statement (as most companies do).
What MS should do is offer consumers with working 360's to send their working 360 in for a retrofit or give them a new one. Consumers should not be the losers because theirs doesn't break in a certain amount of time. It sure seems like the red ring of death is not an if, but a when.
However, The implied warranties - implied warranty of merchantibility and implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose - have no expiration dates. I'm sure MS disclaimed those warranties in their original warranty statement (as most companies do).
Last edited by chanster; 07-15-07 at 02:29 PM.
#48
Originally Posted by taffer
I wouldn't be surprised if MS eventually lengthens the implied warranty again. They have already done so twice.
Even if they don't, I would imagine in 3+ years, the 360 will have seen at least two price drops so that you could probably get a premium or elite for $200.
Also, in 3-4 years, the next-gen systems will be emerging and people will be caring less about the 360.
Even if they don't, I would imagine in 3+ years, the 360 will have seen at least two price drops so that you could probably get a premium or elite for $200.
Also, in 3-4 years, the next-gen systems will be emerging and people will be caring less about the 360.
Neither of those are anywhere near acceptable. I paid $400 already, why should
I pay another $200 (and that's assuming the price drops occur as in your example?
And just because a new system arrives doesn't mean I suddenly don't care about
my previous $400 purchase and piles of games at $60 a pop. And though I'm not
one of them, this problem will also significantly hurt the resale value of the system
for those who sell off their older generation systems when the new arrive.
When the fixed units arrive they should allow for a replacement trade-in
regardless of whether or not you've hit the rrod issue.
#49
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Originally Posted by chanster
What MS should do is offer consumers with working 360's to send their working 360 in for a retrofit or give them a new one. Consumers should not be the losers because theirs doesn't break in a certain amount of time. It sure seems like the red ring of death is not an if, but a when.
#50
DVD Talk Hero
I've had a 360 for about 6 months now with no problems, but I'm certainly glancing at it more often, hoping that if it does die, it happens within the new warranty. I too think they need to suck it up even more and do a voluntary recall.
My biggest concern is that it's currently sitting on top of my entertainment center, completely unobstructed - pretty much ideal if you are trying to keep the temp down. But when my basement is finished it will be moving into a large custom-built cabinet with the rest of my AV stuff.
I might get a portable air conditioner to keep in there
My biggest concern is that it's currently sitting on top of my entertainment center, completely unobstructed - pretty much ideal if you are trying to keep the temp down. But when my basement is finished it will be moving into a large custom-built cabinet with the rest of my AV stuff.
I might get a portable air conditioner to keep in there