Yes but I think there are only a couple of times you can use them to avoid setting of a horde. Then in No Mercy the level that has the forklift which sets of the horde. You don't have to deploy the forklift. There is a entryway covered by metal that you can just melee til it breaks open. Its behind the Rigs.

Just a personal preference...but I prefer to have the option to be able to look down the sight of my gun. I know the game isn't necessarily built to be like most FPS's, but there were times during the few hours I played where it would have been perfect and so much fun to pick off clean head shots.

I think he means you can't zoom in with the gun's sights. Like Rainbow or COD. Thats kinda weak dude. Its not that kinda game.

Finally got my Stomach Upset achievement. (No glitch used other than the Machine Gun glitch) Only 3 more to go!

You can zoom in with the hunting rifle.

You can? Never used it. But I know its supposed to be the most effective against the Tank.

It's got a pretty fast firing rate as well. If you're good at making head shots it can be useful.

Woohoo, finally passed death toll on expert last night. First 2 levels of dead air were a breeze, but from the sound of things we might be stuck on level 3 for a while.

Rumor has it that there's DLC coming anyday for the PC, 360 is a week to 2 off.

Goodluck. I will be home in an hour I can try to help if you need players. 3rd chapter is by far the most annoying and difficult.

Oh and I have just about gave up on getting the "Nothing Special" achievement by the book so if anyone wants to try the glitch my GT is below.

The minigun physics exploit is no more (on PC.)

I came very close to beating a campaign on expert last night on single player. Playing Dead Air, after many failures on chapter 3 and many many attempts on chapter 4 I made it as far as the concourse with the exit on chap4 - twice - but both times a Tank spawned there and finished me off. The second Tank of the level, I might add. I made the mistake of retreating and trying to join the fight against the Tank when I should have let him go after the bots and tried to make a run for the safe room because it was so close. Very frustrating to get that close and not make it. I finally gave up because it was getting too late.

I did find two useful strategies for problem spots, though. For the fire barricade in chapter 3 of Dead Air I shot the explosives from the elevated walkway in the building to the right to start the crescendo, then followed the walkway around and fell of the opening that drops down into the alley near where you start the level. The bots followed, and we were right in front of the originating saferoom. This is a great place to defend against the two waves of the horde because the infected won't come from behind you (provided you previously cleared any out that were already there) and they will be bottlenecked at the corner. Plus you have access to ammo in the saferoom. You can also grab the gas canisters atop the walkway and toss them down before you set off the barricade, but this is dangerouos with bots because they are often too stupid to avoid fire and on expert it will instantly down them.

On Dead Air chapter 4 in the crescendo with the van, I found the best way to survive expert is to do the same method... trigger the event and instantly make a mad dash to the originating saferoom. Before doing this make sure you have cleared all the office rooms of infected. The danger here is avoiding special infected on the way back, especially at the top of the stairs. The good news is that special infected may have opened up a shortcut to the right of the double doors that lead back to the offices. Either way, if you cross back to the originating saferoom you have a clear shot of the escalators on the far side and the ramp on the right, the two spots the infected have to go up to get to you. Also, if they do manage to get to the office hall, you also have a good amount of distance between the doors to the hall on your side and a clear shot to defend those as well. And the special infected can't reach you up there, unless they travel all the way down the halls. The only bad news is that the bots sometimes don't follow you back to the spot. No problem, just fight and wait it out. There is a hero closet in the offices if someone dies (just make sure nobody opens it on the way to the crescendo).

List of fixes that should be done already on PC and will be coming to 360 soon:

General
- Fixed Survivors being able to climb surfaces marked for versus infected only.
- Fixed a class of SurvivorBot bugs dealing with rescuing downed players.
- Players can no longer grab ladders while flying through the air after a Tank punch.
- Shooting near a car with an alarm that has already fired the alarm will no longer make chirping noises.
- Improved loading time.
- Fixed mini-gun physics exploit.
- Fixed propane tanks (and other physics objects) causing players to fall through elevators.
- Fixed rare achievement bug issues.
- Fixed several map exploits.
- Fixed various match making issues.
- Fixed NAT traversal issues.

Versus Changes
- Added HUD elements to show status of other infected players.
- Changed color of infected player name in chat to red.
- Fixed exploit where players could spawn infected bots
- Fixed instance where a Survivor changing to the infected team would be attacked by infected bots.
- Normalized special infected melee damage.
- Made the following client commands cheat protected: "Kill" and "explode".
- Fixed exploit where infected players could run away and teleport back to gain health.
- Players can only change teams once per map.
- Players can't change teams while other players are still loading.
- Tank spawns at the same % through the map for both teams in versus mode.
- Made the Tank and Witch spawn directly on the escape route.
- Increased chance of getting the Tank or Witch.
- Fixed team swap issue.

Hunter
- Easier to pounce a Survivor who is meleeing.
- Increased Minimum damage a Hunter pounce does.

Smoker
- Fixed Smoker tongue tolerance.
- Smoker now has to be killed or the tongue destroyed for the tongue to break.
- Survivor's cannot bash someone off the tongue until the Survivor being pulled is paralyzed or hanging
- Tongue attacks that fail to paralyze or hang a Survivor will use the shorter ability delay timer.
- Fixed cases where the ability timer was not using the correct time.
- Fixed case where you could point at a Survivor but not register a tongue hit
- Fixed Smoker tongue not targeting and landing properly through PZ ghosts.
- Smoker tongue does damage every second while dragging paralyzed Survivors.

Tank
- Bashable objects now appear with a red glow.
- Tanks hitting a car with an alarm disables the alarm permanently.
- Tank frustration timer is only reset by hitting Survivors with rocks or fists.
- Reduced autoshotgun damage against Tanks.

Witch
- Witch spawns at the same % through the map for both teams.
- Avoids spawning within a certain % of the tank.
- Fixed an exploit where the Witch could be woken up and tricked into attacking Survivors.

So I finally bought this game and am gonna hop online later tonight/tomorrow...anyone wanna play? My XBL name is SharpWoodenStke

I added you.

Thanks! Gonna try and get on later tonight after the GF finishes her damn shows.

I'll be home today and game for some glitched achievements

i've been working on the glitches before they patch it

Still took nearly 2 hours for 4 of us to beat a final act on expert....game is brutal

I played about 4 hours yesterday...awesome game. I tried playing the third act on Normal and all 4 of us got destroyed at the last level. One zombie jumps on me and then all the sudden there are hundreds.

I'm curious if the fixes in the patch concerning the special infected will apply to all the modes or just versus? I'm specifically talking about this one: "Reduced autoshotgun damage against Tanks." If they apply this in Campaign/Single Player, then they going to make an already difficult Expert mode virtually impossible. I don't mind a challenge, but you have to give players at least a fighting chance. The auto-shotgun is the only thing that even has a slim shot of downing a Tank in expert (especially since the 'burn and run' tactic isn't nearly as effective in expert because it takes so long to burn him).

The developers said that what does the most damage to the tank is the rifle. Use your sights and go for head shots. And to make it easy set the tank on fire.

Played this online for the first time with some friends last night. Soo much fun! Can't wait to play some more - too bad classes are starting back up.

I really didn't feel like the game was that good playing on single player, but co-op was just great! I do think I need to fiddle with the NAT settings on my router though. The connection seemed fine, but the voice was choppy.

Maybe that was their intention, but it doesn't really work unless you have a lot of space between you and the tank (like the Dead Air finale). If the Tank shows up somewhere cramped, like the office building, even with headshots you'll never get enough shots off in time on Expert to take him down.

I've found my experiences more closely match the stats/descriptions at this site:
http://left4dead.wikia.com/

"The hunting rifle is only moderately effective against the Tank, but has the bonus of allowing the user to attack the Tank from a longer distance, where the Tank is less of a threat. On the other hand, the weapon's accuracy is terrible when running, which makes the hunting rifle less effective than pistols when you need to run and gun."
Damage Per Shot 90

"The Auto shotgun is the most effective weapon for dealing with a Tank in close quarters. Players wielding an auto shotgun are capable of bringing down a tank in 12-30 shells, depending on the difficulty level, provided he stays in the right range."
Damage Per Shot 288

As for the fire, again it's okay at distances... but since the tank actually runs faster while he's on fire you'd better make sure you have plenty of running room for that 40-45 seconds it takes for him to die from the burn on expert.

Agreed 100% you have to pick your spots. There are many places you can have a teammate in a position to take headshots while the others fight close quarters. Thats the beauty of this game some many options.

Gonna do some playing tonight if anyone wants, drop me a line.

But isn't the sniper vulnerable to smoker and hunter attacks if they go off alone to shoot at the Tank?

Well yes but your around the other players but just as much distance as you need to avoid a Tak attack.