Wii - Part IV.
03-23-07 | 12:03 AM
#376
Retired
Well, it looks like Wii online play will officially suck as expected.
http://gonintendo.com/?p=14962
http://gonintendo.com/?p=14962
Nintendo rep confirms game-specific Friend Codes for Wii
I know a lot of people were hoping that there was some sort of silver lining in the GameSpy/Falafelkid article we posted. The gang at Wii-Network shot an email out to Nintendo about the situation, and this is the response they received.
I can confirm that the Friend Code system in the Wi-Fi Connection (WFC) service for Wii will be the same as it was for the Nintendo DS, meaning game-specific Friend Codes and a separate Friend Roster are used in each game where players can play with identified friends. As with Nintendo DS, the system was created to ensure the gaming environment is kept fun for everyone.
We have heard from various others like you letting us know how they felt regarding Nintendo’s implementation of Friend Codes in the Wi-Fi Connection service for Wii. I want you to know that we appreciate your passion and concern. Let me assure you that your concerns have been heard and will be forwarded along. As always, keep an eye on our website (www.nintendo.com) for the latest developments in Wi-Fi gaming as they are made available.
Nintendo of America Inc.
R.M. Rickets
I know a lot of people were hoping that there was some sort of silver lining in the GameSpy/Falafelkid article we posted. The gang at Wii-Network shot an email out to Nintendo about the situation, and this is the response they received.
I can confirm that the Friend Code system in the Wi-Fi Connection (WFC) service for Wii will be the same as it was for the Nintendo DS, meaning game-specific Friend Codes and a separate Friend Roster are used in each game where players can play with identified friends. As with Nintendo DS, the system was created to ensure the gaming environment is kept fun for everyone.
We have heard from various others like you letting us know how they felt regarding Nintendo’s implementation of Friend Codes in the Wi-Fi Connection service for Wii. I want you to know that we appreciate your passion and concern. Let me assure you that your concerns have been heard and will be forwarded along. As always, keep an eye on our website (www.nintendo.com) for the latest developments in Wi-Fi gaming as they are made available.
Nintendo of America Inc.
R.M. Rickets
03-23-07 | 12:13 AM
#377
DVD Talk Legend
I guess I don't see the point. Why when they clearly have the capibility not to. I thought I heard once they did this as a "safety" feature to protect kids. But how does that work? How is having to put in a separate code for each game safer than putting in 1 code for your friend that you play multiple games with.
On the otherhand, I don't know what the big deal is. It's a slight annoyance, but I don't see it as crippling (except some developers like Square don't like it).
On the otherhand, I don't know what the big deal is. It's a slight annoyance, but I don't see it as crippling (except some developers like Square don't like it).
03-23-07 | 12:18 AM
#378
DVD Talk Legend
Out of curiousity I checked Wikipedia:
But there are plenty of other methods to combat this: Blocking, accepting friend requests, logins w/passwords (easier on the Wii), etc. There's no reason on the Wii to have game-specific codes.. You can even format the Wii before you sell it.
These measures (mutual Friend code exchange, per-game Friend codes, and the pairing of the Friend code and system) are conscious steps to preserve users' privacy. If a DS game is sold, but not the system, there is no risk of the purchaser impersonating the seller. Similarly, one cannot add a user to their "Friends list" for the sole purpose of antagonizing the user online.
03-23-07 | 08:47 AM
#379
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
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Originally Posted by DodgingCars
Out of curiousity I checked Wikipedia:
But there are plenty of other methods to combat this: Blocking, accepting friend requests, logins w/passwords (easier on the Wii), etc. There's no reason on the Wii to have game-specific codes.. You can even format the Wii before you sell it.
But there are plenty of other methods to combat this: Blocking, accepting friend requests, logins w/passwords (easier on the Wii), etc. There's no reason on the Wii to have game-specific codes.. You can even format the Wii before you sell it.
In the Northern California community of Santa Rosa, police have arrested Ronnie Brendan Watts, 26, on suspicion of "performing a lewd act on a child and sending harmful matter to seduce a minor," reports the online branch of Santa Rosa's The Press Democrat newspaper.
Last fall, the two met through Xbox Live, an online gaming service which lets players play games together while talking to each other in real time, using headsets. Watts and the unnamed boy eventually swapped e-mail information, and moved on to communicating through instant messaging and video conferencing. The two allegedly exchanged explicit videos of each other before they agreed to meet in person at a local park, where the lewd act may have taken place, says The Press Democrat.
Sexual predation is nothing new to the online community. According to a poll conducted by the Polly Klaas Foundation, an organization with the goal to prevent child abduction, approximately 25 percent of 8- to 18-year-olds surveyed have talked about sex with a stranger online.
Last fall, the two met through Xbox Live, an online gaming service which lets players play games together while talking to each other in real time, using headsets. Watts and the unnamed boy eventually swapped e-mail information, and moved on to communicating through instant messaging and video conferencing. The two allegedly exchanged explicit videos of each other before they agreed to meet in person at a local park, where the lewd act may have taken place, says The Press Democrat.
Sexual predation is nothing new to the online community. According to a poll conducted by the Polly Klaas Foundation, an organization with the goal to prevent child abduction, approximately 25 percent of 8- to 18-year-olds surveyed have talked about sex with a stranger online.
Godfather: I got to play this for about 45 minutes (I don't own it) and based on the old versions I've played I would say the Wiimotes add a significant increase in the gameplay dynamic. IF you are a fan of the series I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.
03-23-07 | 08:55 AM
#380
Retired
Its a major annoyance IMO. Its just unacceptable to have to exchange long codes for EVERY game.
Plus that apparently means we entered all those friend codes in our Wiis for nothing but the lame ass Miis.
I'm glad I stopped after a couple of weeks.
If they just used those codes it would be more acceptable.
But the MAIN issue here, IMO, is this means no unified friends lists across games. So you have to enter it everytime, you won't be able to see when your friends are online playing game X when you are playing Game Y--so you can't just switch over and play with them etc.
Its not a huge issue for me since I'm not a big fan of online gaming. But having dicked around with Live at my friends, it is a nice service and I'd love having a chance to try out something comparable on the Wii with games like Mario Kart and Smash Bros down the line.
Instead, it looks like the online here will be just as sucky as on the DS.
Plus that apparently means we entered all those friend codes in our Wiis for nothing but the lame ass Miis.
I'm glad I stopped after a couple of weeks.If they just used those codes it would be more acceptable.
But the MAIN issue here, IMO, is this means no unified friends lists across games. So you have to enter it everytime, you won't be able to see when your friends are online playing game X when you are playing Game Y--so you can't just switch over and play with them etc.
Its not a huge issue for me since I'm not a big fan of online gaming. But having dicked around with Live at my friends, it is a nice service and I'd love having a chance to try out something comparable on the Wii with games like Mario Kart and Smash Bros down the line.
Instead, it looks like the online here will be just as sucky as on the DS.
03-23-07 | 08:59 AM
#381
Retired
Originally Posted by jeffdsmith
True, but you have to remember the kids...
My point being, is children are a lot less likely to employ the tools correctly for their own safety.
My point being, is children are a lot less likely to employ the tools correctly for their own safety.
Like online predation, this falls on the parents. They shouldn't cripple the online features just to protect the kids, just like they shouldn't censor or monitor everything on the Net.
Parents just need to monitor what they are doing, talk to them about those kinds of dangers, or even not let them play online when they're not playing with them or watching and the problem is solved.
Hate to say it, but with the Wii Nintendo is being far to Kid friendly for my tastes thus far with crap like this and all the kiddie mini game collections thus far.
03-23-07 | 09:12 AM
#382
DVD Talk Legend
I think we can all agree that Nintendo has an exponentially larger CYA to consider with their online strategy. Is this the best way to handle it? Probably not.. but as I saw a news report about how child predators can get to your kid through the DS Picto Chat (no, I'm not joking), you know damn well Nintendo has to tread EXTREMELY careful here, especially considering their biggest online game is going to be the Pokémon.
03-23-07 | 09:16 AM
#383
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by DodgingCars
I guess I don't see the point. Why when they clearly have the capibility not to. I thought I heard once they did this as a "safety" feature to protect kids. But how does that work? How is having to put in a separate code for each game safer than putting in 1 code for your friend that you play multiple games with.
On the otherhand, I don't know what the big deal is. It's a slight annoyance, but I don't see it as crippling (except some developers like Square don't like it).
On the otherhand, I don't know what the big deal is. It's a slight annoyance, but I don't see it as crippling (except some developers like Square don't like it).
Even if I had a dozen people I regularly gamed online with, I don't imagine that ALL of them would have EVERY game that I owned and that ALL the games would have online play capabilities.
I see it as a minor annoyance, not a deal-breaker.
03-23-07 | 09:22 AM
#384
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Joined: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Honestly, I just don't care.
1] I don't 100% agree with Nintendo's position, just trying to explain it.
2] I agree with your points.
3] I didn't care either until I got several nephews and a niece and realized just how intelligent kids are, while being ignorant. In other words, kids find ways around things, they are individuals, and a parent can't watch their kids 100% of the time. I think about my childhood, I did dumb things all the time, with the internet it provides a powerful gateway for things to go bad real quick.
03-23-07 | 09:27 AM
#385
I just wish there was a grandfather clause for the friends you already set up on your Wii. I remember hearing Reggie or someone say at one point that the person(s) you play in Metroid Hunters may not be the person you want visiting your Animal Crossing town over night. So you'll want the option to dis/allow certain people from certain games. I get that, I do. But I already have a friends list. Let me, in the game, select which of those friends apply to this game. Gaw!
03-23-07 | 09:35 AM
#386
Further!
Do we really need 16-byte friend codes, per friend, per game eating up the already limited internal memory? Each game save is going to grow because of this and there's nowhere else to save the information as of yet. If I have to delete a VC game from quick launch just so I can get 20 people in 6 games each, I'ma be pissed.
Do we really need 16-byte friend codes, per friend, per game eating up the already limited internal memory? Each game save is going to grow because of this and there's nowhere else to save the information as of yet. If I have to delete a VC game from quick launch just so I can get 20 people in 6 games each, I'ma be pissed.
03-23-07 | 09:47 AM
#387
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by pinata242
Do we really need 16-byte friend codes, per friend, per game eating up the already limited internal memory? Each game save is going to grow because of this and there's nowhere else to save the information as of yet. If I have to delete a VC game from quick launch just so I can get 20 people in 6 games each, I'ma be pissed.
03-23-07 | 09:51 AM
#388
The Wii's internal memory deals in 1Kb blocks. If you step foot into a block, you've used it. Since 16 bytes is 128 bits, it doesn't take long to use a block in a game. Replicate what *should* be redundant data across multiple games and you've arbitrarily inflated what it (again) should take to accomplish this.
At some point I'm going to have to remove VC games and/or channels because the internal memory can't support it. Doing friend codes this way just accelerates that.
At some point I'm going to have to remove VC games and/or channels because the internal memory can't support it. Doing friend codes this way just accelerates that.
03-23-07 | 09:53 AM
#389
Retired
Originally Posted by jeffdsmith
Three Things:
1] I don't 100% agree with Nintendo's position, just trying to explain it.
2] I agree with your points.
3] I didn't care either until I got several nephews and a niece and realized just how intelligent kids are, while being ignorant. In other words, kids find ways around things, they are individuals, and a parent can't watch their kids 100% of the time. I think about my childhood, I did dumb things all the time, with the internet it provides a powerful gateway for things to go bad real quick.
1] I don't 100% agree with Nintendo's position, just trying to explain it.
2] I agree with your points.
3] I didn't care either until I got several nephews and a niece and realized just how intelligent kids are, while being ignorant. In other words, kids find ways around things, they are individuals, and a parent can't watch their kids 100% of the time. I think about my childhood, I did dumb things all the time, with the internet it provides a powerful gateway for things to go bad real quick.
Maybe I'm cold and callous, but I just don't care.
I just want an easy, convenient online system if I'm going to bother giving it a chance.
Again, not a huge deal and I'm not going to boycott Nintendo over this or anything.
And I understand they are in an extra dangerous position due to being the kid/family friendly company.Its just crap that it looks like people who do care a lot about online gaming are going to have to go to the competition for their needs. Just more customers/$$$ lost in a generation where Nintendo could gain a ton of ground if they play all their cards right. They've clearly misplayed this one.
03-23-07 | 09:55 AM
#390
DVD Talk Legend
Even if each individual friend code wastefully used a single block, you're still over-exaggerating things in a mammoth way. You'd still needs THOUSANDS of them to even begin to possibly inhibit other data being used.
03-23-07 | 09:56 AM
#391
Retired
Originally Posted by pinata242
The Wii's internal memory deals in 1Kb blocks. If you step foot into a block, you've used it. Since 16 bytes is 128 bits, it doesn't take long to use a block in a game. Replicate what *should* be redundant data across multiple games and you've arbitrarily inflated what it (again) should take to accomplish this.
At some point I'm going to have to remove VC games and/or channels because the internal memory can't support it. Doing friend codes this way just accelerates that.
At some point I'm going to have to remove VC games and/or channels because the internal memory can't support it. Doing friend codes this way just accelerates that.
I don't know how much friend codes will accelerate it, but you are right that the memory usage is horribly inefficient. I don't know why they couldn't just do it in straight megabytes so the games take up no more space than the Rom files on a PC do.
03-23-07 | 10:10 AM
#392
Originally Posted by PixyJunket
you're still over-exaggerating things in a mammoth way.
Seriously, though. Super Mario Brothers takes up 20 blocks. If I get an average of 10 friends (1 block worth of memory) across 10 games, that's 1/2 of SMB right there. I'm assuming those 10 friends are the same people, or at least already on my Wii Friend list, there's a whole lot of redundant information.
I'm just saying that at some point the information the Wii games need is going to interfere with the custom channels I've grown accustomed to having at my fingertips.
I have 1341 blocks left so this issue isn't going to come to a head for a long while. But with the SNES games averaging 42 blocks (the 5 I have at least), the new channels released over time (DS download?), game saves (and VC states), etc it is going to start getting tight in there and this is one angle of the Friend Code debacle that doesn't have a champion. I AM THAT CHAMPION!
03-23-07 | 10:18 AM
#393
DVD Talk Godfather
I'm going to take the "glass is half full" stance. I've been dying to be able to sort my friends on Live and MS just won't implement that feature. I have 30-40 or so people on my Live list and I get invites for games I don't have pretty frequently.
Having game-centric codes allows me to avoid that and only have friends for certain games. Will I be inputting the same friend for multiple games? Probably, but how difficult is that? Really.
I'm not advocating Friend Codes by any means, Live is so much easier. The only major gripe I have is that both people have to enter codes vs. one doing it and the other just accepting a friend invite.
Having game-centric codes allows me to avoid that and only have friends for certain games. Will I be inputting the same friend for multiple games? Probably, but how difficult is that? Really.
I'm not advocating Friend Codes by any means, Live is so much easier. The only major gripe I have is that both people have to enter codes vs. one doing it and the other just accepting a friend invite.
03-23-07 | 10:22 AM
#394
DVD Talk Legend
You know what.. the friend codes will probably be part of the individual game's save files now that I think about it.. meaning properly compressed and taking up an additional 0 blocks than the save file without the codes. So there. I win.
03-23-07 | 10:25 AM
#395
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
The only major gripe I have is that both people have to enter codes vs. one doing it and the other just accepting a friend invite.
03-23-07 | 10:27 AM
#396
Originally Posted by PixyJunket
You know what.. the friend codes will probably be part of the individual game's save files now that I think about it.. meaning properly compressed and taking up an additional 0 blocks than the save file without the codes. So there. I win.
03-23-07 | 10:36 AM
#397
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by pinata242
That's worse, isn't it? I mean, taking up space you don't need.
Of course.. I'm just guessing (as are you).
03-23-07 | 10:40 AM
#398
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by PixyJunket
Ah yes, THAT'S the real annoyance. Good call. Entering in a few codes per game isn't that horrible (yes, Live is easier, but seriously.. this isn't rigorous manual labor for crying out loud). The negativity on friend codes seems hugely over-stated (on the internet, what a shock), it's not as good as Live but if they had just copied that, they'd just be called out on it (ala Sony). You lose either way, heh.
03-23-07 | 10:44 AM
#399
Retired
Yeah, I don't mind the codes per se.
I mind:
1. Both people have to enter them. No invites etc.
2. Seperate codes for every game...which leads to the following.
3. No unified friends list--so no way to see who's online, what they're playing etc. Online gaming is a pain in the ass if you have to coordinate before hand, or just luck out, versus just being able to see what you're friends are playing and join in. Or at least be able to see when they come online and be able to message them and see if they want to play whatever game etc.
I mind:
1. Both people have to enter them. No invites etc.
2. Seperate codes for every game...which leads to the following.
3. No unified friends list--so no way to see who's online, what they're playing etc. Online gaming is a pain in the ass if you have to coordinate before hand, or just luck out, versus just being able to see what you're friends are playing and join in. Or at least be able to see when they come online and be able to message them and see if they want to play whatever game etc.
03-23-07 | 10:48 AM
#400
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Exactly. I don't get the gripes of the 16 digit code. It takes just as long to enter a name on Live(unless you are on a PC). Can you remember a code to enter later? No. But is xxHal0 Fr3ak99382xx any easier to remember?
Well.. Live does use the same names across all games, which is a huge plus over Nintendo. But, I still agree that it's not crippling in any sense. Unless you're entering thirty codes at once, it should take a couple of minutes to add a few people and jump in. Hardly worth branding the service as useless over.