If you look at it that way, the Blu-Ray (PS3) is outselling HD-DVD (360) 30:1, yet only outselling the discs 2:1? I wouldn't call it a huge impact.

My point is that format war is far from over... and as someone who doesn't spend $600 without a lot of thought, there is no way I'd buy a PS3 player as a movie watching machine. But I wouldn't buy a $600 HD-DVD player either.

Right now, it seems that X-Box 360 has the advantage. It's (currently) the better gaming system, and for a upgrade you can watch HD movies as well (even without the upgrade you can download HD movies).

For me, the PS3 has no value -- or at least is not worth $600.

Blu Ray could win the format war... but I'm starting to think they'll both be losers and we may start to see more digital distribution -- and in 5 years it may be that no one cares about either format.

I agree that Blu-Ray may be the winner, based off studio/manufacturer support alone. However, it'll be a cold day in Hell before I purchase a PS3 simply to watch movies. I just have no interest in the system as a gaming machine. Now, if they start releasing Blu-Ray standalone players for around $300? Yeah, I might have to bite the bullet then...

"Is a new Xbox 360 SKU headed to retail or not? Well both 1UP and Game Informer reported on the matter over the weekend with varying bits of information and in light of recent price drop rumors.

1UP suggests that Microsoft may have lowered existing 360 shipments in an effort to flush out old inventory in favor of newly enhanced hardware; like consoles with HDMI support and a larger hard drive. Game Informer was a lot more specific in saying: "Retailers have confirmed that the new SKU is in their systems, set for a May 1 release for $479.99. In addition to the new [HDMI] interface, the system would also pack a 120 GB hard drive into its nifty black exterior."

Keep in mind this is all conjecture, however, as Microsoft's Shane Kim told 1UP last week that the company has "nothing to announce at this time" regarding new SKUs. Still, the grapevine implies that something's brewing over at Microsoft's Xbox division."





Personally I don't think an HDMI port and a larger hard drive really justify an $80 increase in price. Especially when you consider it is getting close to a point where they can decrease the overall price of the system. Of course this is all conjecture up to this point.

I can't really see me caring too much, considering I have no need for either a bigger drive or an HDMI port

id say considering they want 100 for a 20 gig alone, they could easily justify the 80 extra cost

Didn't we see speculation about the Wii in the months prior to its release based on system placeholders? I don't recall what the prices were, but I remember the argument that the system just highballs it so that they cover their ass by suggesting it'll be "no more than". Better to say $480 (20% more) than assume $400 and be caught by a bunch of pissed off customers.

I guess what I'm saying is, maybe this is just a placeholder price and not reflective of the real thing since it hasn't even been officially announced yet.

That would be disappointing if true. I just want to see the Premium drop to $299.99 as I'd probably end up picking one up at that price (saving up Amazon GCs for that purpose).

If I'm FOX and I don't produce players, I'm not really sure that I care about the ratio of system sold? All I'd care about is selling discs, PS3 / HD Add-on or not. According to Nielsen I'd most likely sell 2 Blu-Ray discs for ever 1 HDDVD I sell. That's pretty significant to me.

I still think it is too early and those numbers are pretty superficial. When the games start rolling in on the PS3 will those consumers still be buying the BR discs? Right now people are spending their game money on movies to justify their investment. Once games start coming that $30 spent on BR discs is going to go towards those $60 games.

At least in my opinion. I think it will all level out and ultimately both will fail, or at least be about on par with Laserdisc success.

I can see one being relatively successful, but I don't think either will be as successful as DVD. There are a lot of obstacles:

1) Potential customers lack the right hardware. I.e., I still have a standard def, 27" tv, and probably won't upgrade unless I either come into a lot of money or prices on a 36"+ come down to about $500. I have 2 27" TVs that work fine -- and while I'm interested in HD and even a bigger screen... right now I can't afford (or won't afford) the upgrade. How many people have HD sets in the US? Even amongst the people I know, it's a relatively small amount of people.

2) Customer confusion. I'm pretty tech saavy and I read about HD and I'm still confused. I would have to do a lot of research to know what kind of TV to buy to benefit from HD. With DVD, you pretty much just had to buy a DVD player and plug it in.

3) Digital distribution or the industry's term: electronic sell-through. It's main hurdle right now is getting from your computer to your TV, but with devices like Apple TV, Tivo (plays Amazon's content), Xbox 360, and Netflix's supposed device, it'll be much easier to download a movie and watch it. Some services offer streaming, where you can start watching before the download is done, meaning you can be watching a purchased movie in minutes. The other hurdles are size (HD movies take up a lot of space) and the current inability to burn/backup. I need to be able to archive what I buy and I need to be able to move what I buy (i.e. take the movie to a friends house). If/when this is fixed, I see it dominating the way we watch movies. I certainly would rather click and rent a movie for $4 (or a monthly subscription) than wait 1-2 days for Netflix or drive to Blockbuster.

So right now... I see no point in paying $600 for technology that may be useless to me in a couple years (and actually for me, is useless now).

I probably wouldn't buy either a X-box 360 or PS3 until they hit about the $300 range (for the premium models).

That's my thought as well, at least the latter part. They (or one of them) will remain a laserdisc like niche market.

I just don't see people jumping away from DVDs for them just like people haven't jumped away from CDs for other better sounding formats.

If anything ever takes over for CDs and DVDs it will probably be downloadable content (and I hope that doesn't happen as I prefer having the physical disc).

I can see the $480 price if the new Xbox also included the HD-DVD drive. HDMI interface should cost nothing, 120GB drive probably costs Microsoft around, what, $30 wholesale? I'm not sure how their drives cost compared to standard PC drives where I think I saw a 200GB drive at Frys for $49.99 last week. Considering a $100 price drop is coming, the only way to explain a $80 increase in price would be a built-in HD-DVD drive.

Well Nintendo officially stated below $250 and many MANY people speculated a lot less like a likely price of $200 and even down to $150. When they came out with the price of $249.99 many people, myself included, were dissapointed. Although it seems like Nintendo made the correct business decision as Wiis look like a bargain compared to the other two and are still flying off the shelves and we are almost to march.

The interesting thing is that there is speculation that they are making a healthy amount on each unit sold so the company that is in the easiest position to have a price drop doesn't have much incentive to do so.

I agree with all of those points except with the third. Personally I have never paid for nor will I in the future pay significant amounts of money for any form of digital distribution. I just won't. There are way too many limitations on it and virtually no guarantee. I would much rather pay for physical media and have an actual collection that has actual worth then data on a computer that isn't tangible. I would consider a subscription based service to borrow movies but not to add to my collection. I think this is a greater hurdle then people think and I believe that a majority of the population would still rather purchase something tangible when it comes to media.

I have to agree. Anything more than $10-$15 on the XBLA and I'm out. I'd rather have the physical media which has a.)resale value b.)has a likelyhood of going on sale c.)can be lent/borrowed/rented. Digital places TOO much control in the hands of the corporation and zero control with the consumer. I think it is a bad idea all around.

Purchasing a $.99 cent song off itunes is totally different than purchasing a $60 game off a digital distribution channel.

I purchased the Wii, but haven't been playing it much recently (lack of time and new games I'm really interested in at full retail price), and I think eventually I'm going to pick up the 360. However I want to try to limit my money spent on games, as I feel 60 is ridiculous. Are the better games starting to become greatest hits yet? I really wanted to see what all the fuss was about Oblivion. What other must have games have hit bargain prices by now?

There's a thread on that now, there's a handful of games they just made platinum hits, the unfortunately the MSPR is $29.99 rather than $19.99. Also most of the game are already $30 (or have bee on sale for $20-30 often) at Best Buy and other stores so its not much of a change.

It is now, but it won't be so much a generation or two down the hurdle when a generation of kids has grown up on downloaded music and movies. They won't have the same love for physical media that you and I have.

That said, I don't see it becoming the dominant format during our lifetimes, but I do think it will continually grow in popularity and market share--especially for music where we already have a yearly trend of CD sales dropping (at all time lows now) and paid digital downloads rising.

With BD having a 5:1 ratio advantage in hardware, you'd think they'd outselling HD DVD by a larger margin than 2:1, but that shows how well the attach rate is for HD DVD players. And not to mention, HD DVD has had very few titles in the past month, whereas BD has flooded the market. Universal will have 100 exclusive HD DVD titles this year + we'll likely see some of the Toshiba players drop to $300 in late Summer. The war is far from over. But let's keep in mind, sales for both are microscopic when compared to dvd. When either of these formats breaks 1% of movie sales, then it'll mean something.

Regarding the PSP, I thought there was talk of a re-design. Is that not happening now?

Looks like we have confirmation on the new Xbox 360 unit. From Joystiq:


"Looks like Game Informer's black Xbox 360 rumor wasn't so much a rumor as it was a pending exclusive in their shiny mag. Of course, GI weren't the first outlet to whisper secrets about an elusive revision of the Xbox 360 -- actually, Engadget got pics of the console's (dubbed Zephyr) HDMI port, proving its existence. Now, GI's April issue has the deets.

This news has been floating around for a couple days -- first hitting NeoGAF and subsequently our tips line -- but, Kotaku has managed to get some pics of the page and even confirmation from GI that this isn't an April Fool's hoax. So, without further delay, the specs:

* Uh, it's black
* HDMI port and HDMI cable (oh, you bullies!)
* 120GB hard drive (but you told us 20GB was more than enough!)
* A $479 price tag (ouch!)
* No HD-DVD integration (yup), the "format's not proven" (pssst, and it's being outsold)
* The 120GB hard drive will be available for under $200 (uh, we certainly hope so!)
* It's coming in "late April"

Engadget adds:

* Dubbed the Xbox 360 Elite
* Limited-edition; probably a couple hundred thousand units
* Case, controller, and headset will be black; new packaging
* Confirmed: 3rd SKU; sold alongside Premium and Core bundles
* Elite runs cooler than other models
* Eventually Elite hardware (in white) will replace Premium; estimated to be in late summer or fall

Our questions:

* Where the hell is the built-in WiFi? Seriously. Our DS Lite has it built-in -- and DS is only $30 more than the 360's adapter! (Engadget: "There are no current plans to integrate WiFi into the Elite or future Premiums...")
* Will this be a third SKU, or will they finally pull the Core? Yeah, #3.
* Will the Zephyr Elite release come coupled with price-drops for the other SKUs? (Engadget: "Prices may remain the same with the 120GB / HDMI hardware upgrade in the Premium Xbox, but we may still see a price cut on the line when 65nm chips start shipping.")
* Does this model have the desirable, albeit delayed, 65nm chips? (Engadget: "not yet confirmed to have 65nm chips.")
* How pissed off will early adopters be?"

There's also rumors flying about a $100 PS3 price drop in the fall.

Which seems quite high. I know early adopters always pay more but dropping that much within a year seems like quite the slap in the face to those that supported you. If that goes through they should send out coupons for a free game or download or something to those that registered to soften the blow.

I think $479 to just add HDMI and increase the hard drive to 120GB is insane, I guess they are trying to model Apple's black MacBook which they charge $200 more essentially for the black color. 120GB USB drives sell for less than $100 retail, don't they? I wonder if Microsoft is trying to lose this generation also.

I don't see a problem with this at all, even if the drop is $200. We all knew going in that the PS3 was bleeding edge especially regarding the blu-ray drive. A price drop the first year was a certainty to me.

Regarding the size of the price drop, both the PS1 and the original Xbox price dropped 33% within six months of launch, and Nintendo's Gamecube dropped 25% in the same time frame. Actually the Xbox and Gamecube both dropped in price 50% around 2 years after launch.

Exactly! Especially awesome is how it's already confirmed that once this limited edition color sells out, the 120GB and HDMI will be standard in the white premium pack this summer. Since it would be absolutely ludicrous for them to increase that packages price.. yes, you're paying $80 for the effin' color.

I said it in the other thread.. this would've been a perfect time to kill the core, drop the premium to $300 and have this new elite package as the $400 edition. It would have be a fatal blow to the PS3 in my opinion (or "massive damage" as the internet nerds say).

Boo to the 360 as I doubt they'll drop price on the exiting ones and I don't care about a bigger HDD or HDMI.

A price drop on the PS3 may be a slap in the face to early adopters, but its their own fault for paying that much for a game console/early adopting new video playback technology which has historically dropped in price very fast (look how quick DVD players dropped).

Sony really has no choice, if they don't start with price drops by this fall at the latest they will be doomed to a distant 3rd place in the console war.

If that happened Pixy, I would have bought the Premium without a doubt.