Question about Wii graphics:
01-25-07 | 03:56 PM
#101
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Diminishing returns doesn't imply that the change is inconsequential and doesn't make a difference.
I'll reiterate: "I'm simply trying to fight the supposed notion that the graphics difference between the Wii and the 360/PS3 is inconsequential or no longer is at the point where it doesn't improve gameplay."
I still say it does quite a bit.
I don't care about cost, that you need to buy an HDTV, or whatever. Just that.
01-25-07 | 04:06 PM
#102
Retired
Originally Posted by fumanstan
My argument isn't concentrated on diminishing returns alone, it's about what various people have said throughout the entire thread regarding graphics. In fact, ignore diminishing returns altogether.
I'll reiterate: "I'm simply trying to fight the supposed notion that the graphics difference between the Wii and the 360/PS3 is inconsequential or no longer is at the point where it doesn't improve gameplay."
I still say it does quite a bit.
I don't care about cost, that you need to buy an HDTV, or whatever. Just that.
I'll reiterate: "I'm simply trying to fight the supposed notion that the graphics difference between the Wii and the 360/PS3 is inconsequential or no longer is at the point where it doesn't improve gameplay."
I still say it does quite a bit.
I don't care about cost, that you need to buy an HDTV, or whatever. Just that.
Then we're in agreement.
The graphics on the PS3 and 360 definitely are MUCH better than the Wii and do add a lot to games like Gears of War.
It's just not worth the cost to me, hence the diminishing returns point. But I won't deny that it is much better (just not previous generation leaps better IMO) and does add to games. Gears couldn't be done nearly as well on the Wii as the graphics are a huge part of the appeal in that game.
01-25-07 | 04:16 PM
#103
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From: MD
I think if you want graphics, get a 360, if you want unique gameplay, get a Wii. If you want both. Get both! they're not that expensive anyway (if you can find a Wii that is). That said, the graphics on Wii are very good! The art styles are really nice, like Wario Ware, Trauma Center, and I have no doubt next-gen games developed from the get go on Wii will look amazing, like Mario Galaxy
Last edited by Outlaw; 01-25-07 at 04:20 PM.
01-25-07 | 04:22 PM
#104
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From: San Antonio
From what I've seen of Gears, it looks to me like a carbon copy of RE4 with...sorry...but slightly better graphics.
I mean, honestly, if this isn't the definition of "marginal difference", I don't know what is:
I mean, honestly, if this isn't the definition of "marginal difference", I don't know what is:
01-25-07 | 04:27 PM
#105
Retired
Trust me, it's a pretty big difference when you play and see it in motion rather than looking at screens.
There's a ton more detail in the environment and characters in Gears (wrinkles, scars, details in the armor etc), much better explosion effects, lighting etc. And I've only played it on an SD TV.
Now I don't think it's as big as going from a PS1 RE game to RE4, but it is still more than "marginal difference."
There's a ton more detail in the environment and characters in Gears (wrinkles, scars, details in the armor etc), much better explosion effects, lighting etc. And I've only played it on an SD TV.
Now I don't think it's as big as going from a PS1 RE game to RE4, but it is still more than "marginal difference."
01-25-07 | 04:33 PM
#106
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Don't get me wrong...Gears makes me want to buy a 360...and it definitely looks sharper.
I just don't know that it would give me THAT much greater of a sense of realism.
...and RE4 is a two year old Gamecube game!
I just don't know that it would give me THAT much greater of a sense of realism.
...and RE4 is a two year old Gamecube game!
01-26-07 | 12:29 AM
#108
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by ScandalUMD
More horsepower is a big deal. The higher resolutions absolutely bring new possibilities into play. It's obviously not going to be as dramatic as the shift from 2D games to 3D games, but it's a big deal.
First of all, more horsepower means more characters onscreen, which means more players in multiplayer games. More horsepower and more resolution also means you can push back draw distances. The sniper fights in a game like GRAW couldn't be done in SD.
Second, hardware advances also allows for more complex physics models and other subtler aspects of games. It allows things like dynamic animation instead of pre-scripted motion-captured animation. You may not care much that a character in a newer game dies a unique death and slumps realistically onto whatever he dies on instead of clipping through a wall, but people had a lot of fun just throwing shit around in Oblivion.
Third, the integration of the online capabilities into the console has been a big innovation on Microsoft's part. Everybody else follows Nintendo's hardware innovations, but Microsoft has clearly grasped the significance of online for consoles ahead of its Japanese competitors.
First of all, more horsepower means more characters onscreen, which means more players in multiplayer games. More horsepower and more resolution also means you can push back draw distances. The sniper fights in a game like GRAW couldn't be done in SD.
Second, hardware advances also allows for more complex physics models and other subtler aspects of games. It allows things like dynamic animation instead of pre-scripted motion-captured animation. You may not care much that a character in a newer game dies a unique death and slumps realistically onto whatever he dies on instead of clipping through a wall, but people had a lot of fun just throwing shit around in Oblivion.
Third, the integration of the online capabilities into the console has been a big innovation on Microsoft's part. Everybody else follows Nintendo's hardware innovations, but Microsoft has clearly grasped the significance of online for consoles ahead of its Japanese competitors.
The extra draw distance is nice, but unless you're talking about FPS games, it doesn't really matter much (maybe a flight sim type game as well?). Most of the action is up close anyway. It's just more eye candy. The extra characters on screen can be useful (I still wanna play Dead Rising).
None of this is so drastic as to be worth $400-$600 to me. Maybe your idea of value is different.
I feel quite wierd this generation. After having a PS2 right on launch day it feels strange to be on the Nintendo console. But I've got enough consoles already, and in my book the PS3/Xbox360 aren't bringing enough to the table yet, and at too high a price.
Would I buy them both for $100-$200? Sure! But I've never seen a console worth more than $300 of my money, no matter how revolutionary, and revolutionary the PS3/360 ain't.
01-26-07 | 07:28 AM
#109
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From: Ft. Wayne, Indiana
Originally Posted by GreenMonkey
in my book the PS3/Xbox360 aren't bringing enough to the table yet, and at too high a price.
I just don't think people realize how major Xbox live really is, and if you've played on XBL on the original xbox you still don't know what the 360 brings, it's actually quite amazing. If you haven't spent much real time with an xbox 360 then all you bring to this "diminishing return" argument is a bunch of gibba jab, and MR. T ain't got no time for yo gibba jab. (lol I don't know why I just thought of that but I actually cracked myself up)
I want to point out that while I was playing super swing golf last night on my wii hooked up with component cables I think this system looks amazing. I don't want my wii pumping out photorealistic types of games, if it did there would be no point in buying the thing because I already have a 360. I want fun games with fun graphics and cool controls, that's what my wii gives me.
01-26-07 | 07:41 AM
#110
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by kakihara1
I just don't think people realize how major Xbox live really is, and if you've played on XBL on the original xbox you still don't know what the 360 brings, it's actually quite amazing. If you haven't spent much real time with an xbox 360 then all you bring to this "diminishing return" argument is a bunch of gibba jab, and MR. T ain't got no time for yo gibba jab. (lol I don't know why I just thought of that but I actually cracked myself up)
01-26-07 | 09:33 AM
#111
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From: New York, NY
Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
Trust me, it's a pretty big difference when you play and see it in motion rather than looking at screens.
There's a ton more detail in the environment and characters in Gears (wrinkles, scars, details in the armor etc), much better explosion effects, lighting etc. And I've only played it on an SD TV.
Now I don't think it's as big as going from a PS1 RE game to RE4, but it is still more than "marginal difference."
There's a ton more detail in the environment and characters in Gears (wrinkles, scars, details in the armor etc), much better explosion effects, lighting etc. And I've only played it on an SD TV.
Now I don't think it's as big as going from a PS1 RE game to RE4, but it is still more than "marginal difference."
That's really unfair, because you're comparing games seven or eight years apart to games that are only a year and a half apart in release date. I think you would certainly argue for a very significant difference between REmake and Gears, with the noticeably pre-rendered environments in REmake.
When the PS2 first came out, there were the same comments that people didn't see that big a difference. If anything, the degree of an upgrade, especially on an HD display, is more immediately evident from PS2/Xbox to PS3/360 than it was from PS1/PS2.
01-26-07 | 10:08 AM
#112
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by kakihara1
until you've actually been on an HDTV playing a game of GOW on XBL CO-OP with a friend........you have no frame of reference.
I just don't think people realize how major Xbox live really is, and if you've played on XBL on the original xbox you still don't know what the 360 brings, it's actually quite amazing. If you haven't spent much real time with an xbox 360 then all you bring to this "diminishing return" argument is a bunch of gibba jab, and MR. T ain't got no time for yo gibba jab. (lol I don't know why I just thought of that but I actually cracked myself up)
I just don't think people realize how major Xbox live really is, and if you've played on XBL on the original xbox you still don't know what the 360 brings, it's actually quite amazing. If you haven't spent much real time with an xbox 360 then all you bring to this "diminishing return" argument is a bunch of gibba jab, and MR. T ain't got no time for yo gibba jab. (lol I don't know why I just thought of that but I actually cracked myself up)
I was not impressed and didn't renew my subscription after that year (to be fair I was also pretty busy). I have actually had less annoyance with PC gaming online, oddly. At least a lot of PC gamers aren't yelling racist crap or blabbing annoying things - mainly because those asshats tend not to have mics. Online gaming with your average person sucks. That's why I kinda like the Nintendo model, awkward as it is.
Soon I will be a dayshifter and maybe I'll be able to catch some online messageboard type buds online and maybe I'll be able to enjoy it.
01-26-07 | 10:22 AM
#113
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I totally agree about the "asshats" on LIVE. They have turned me off of countless games, and I really stay away from playing with randoms, which basically means I don't play on LIVE anymore.
I guess you could argue that you can mute these people, or that I shouldn't let these "asshats" affect my gaming experience, but the fact remains that it becomes more of a hassle to enjoy the online experience in that fashion.
I guess you could argue that you can mute these people, or that I shouldn't let these "asshats" affect my gaming experience, but the fact remains that it becomes more of a hassle to enjoy the online experience in that fashion.
01-26-07 | 10:46 AM
#114
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by ScandalUMD
When the PS2 first came out, there were the same comments that people didn't see that big a difference.
The difference in graphics capability for the systems is like so:
(regadless of what kind of TV you're using)
PS1/N64
01-26-07 | 10:52 AM
#115
DVD Talk Legend
This is probably more per publisher.. and it'll probably leak its way into Wii at some point (sadly) but when I think of something like Wii Bowling being on the Xbox 360 all I can imagine is the alley plastered in corporate ads ("Axe Body Spray presents Pepsi Extreme Bowling"), a soundtrack by Creed and 50 Cent and new bowling balls that can only be purchased through the Marketplace.
01-26-07 | 10:58 AM
#117
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by PixyJunket
This is probably more per publisher.. and it'll probably leak its way into Wii at some point (sadly) but when I think of something like Wii Bowling being on the Xbox 360 all I can imagine is the alley plastered in corporate ads ("Axe Body Spray presents Pepsi Extreme Bowling"), a soundtrack by Creed and 50 Cent and new bowling balls that can only be purchased through the Marketplace.
01-26-07 | 10:58 AM
#118
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From: San Antonio
Originally Posted by PixyJunket
This is probably more per publisher.. and it'll probably leak its way into Wii at some point (sadly) but when I think of something like Wii Bowling being on the Xbox 360 all I can imagine is the alley plastered in corporate ads ("Axe Body Spray presents Pepsi Extreme Bowling"), a soundtrack by Creed and 50 Cent and new bowling balls that can only be purchased through the Marketplace.
01-26-07 | 11:10 AM
#119
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From: Ft. Wayne, Indiana
Originally Posted by GreenMonkey
My experiences with xbox live always included cheaters (Halo 2), annoying people trying to get themselves killed or shooting at their own teammates for some reason (Halo 2), people taking advantage of lag to do lame things (repeated foot sweeps in Street Fighter 2), etc.
01-26-07 | 11:20 AM
#120
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From: San Antonio
A more similar comparison...
Damn...the more I look at it...that gears is a f'ing gorgeous game! There may be a 360 in my future after all...perhaps at first or second price drop if the right deal comes along.
Damn...the more I look at it...that gears is a f'ing gorgeous game! There may be a 360 in my future after all...perhaps at first or second price drop if the right deal comes along.
01-26-07 | 11:23 AM
#121
Retired
Originally Posted by kakihara1
until you've actually been on an HDTV playing a game of GOW on XBL CO-OP with a friend........you have no frame of reference.
I just don't think people realize how major Xbox live really is, and if you've played on XBL on the original xbox you still don't know what the 360 brings, it's actually quite amazing. If you haven't spent much real time with an xbox 360 then all you bring to this "diminishing return" argument is a bunch of gibba jab, and MR. T ain't got no time for yo gibba jab. (lol I don't know why I just thought of that but I actually cracked myself up)
I just don't think people realize how major Xbox live really is, and if you've played on XBL on the original xbox you still don't know what the 360 brings, it's actually quite amazing. If you haven't spent much real time with an xbox 360 then all you bring to this "diminishing return" argument is a bunch of gibba jab, and MR. T ain't got no time for yo gibba jab. (lol I don't know why I just thought of that but I actually cracked myself up)
Video games just aren't worth that to me.
And I've spent a good bit of time on the 360 as my brother has one as does one of my best friends. Getting together for some Gears of War Co-op tonight as a matter of fact.
01-26-07 | 11:26 AM
#122
Retired
Originally Posted by ScandalUMD
When the PS2 first came out, there were the same comments that people didn't see that big a difference.
It was a big upgrade from PS1. The problem was it didn't look as good as the Dreamcast games at the time.
01-26-07 | 11:26 AM
#123
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From: Ft. Wayne, Indiana
Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
The PS3 and 360 could come with a supermodel that gave me a BJ while playing in HD on X-box live and I still wouldn't buy them at $400-600.
01-26-07 | 11:43 AM
#124
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From: Space Junk Galaxy
Originally Posted by KurrptSenate
i completely disagree....
if you check some of the best graphics on the N64, they are fairly close to the launch titles for the PS2.
if you check some of the best graphics on the N64, they are fairly close to the launch titles for the PS2.
01-26-07 | 11:44 AM
#125
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by ScandalUMD
When the PS2 first came out, there were the same comments that people didn't see that big a difference.
Originally Posted by slop101
No there were NOT - not even close.