I say the graphics are slightly better, you say they are a lot better...that's hardly "strong disagreement"...and doesn't really speak to my point that the actual games are stale.

Nor does it address my other point that traditional controllers feel absolutely archaic after using the Wii controller.

Bottom line for me: If a port of a 360/PS2 game were ported to Wii with downgraded graphics but with solid Wii controls, I wouldn't hesitate to pick up the Wii version over the others...just for the controls.

id have to look to see if a name was even listed on the cables. They really are generic as hell


...but my point still stands

Huh? How isn't that a strong disagreement? They're completely opposite. I don't care about your other points, because I didn't disagree with them. I'm contending that the graphics difference is more then slight. Why do you think I only quoted that part

I don't, however, have any problems using a controller despite having a Wii. To me its just something different, not something that has completely changed how I want to play games.

I don't know, I think the jump is just as big from the PS1 to PS2/XBox as it is to the 360/PS3. Final Fantasy 8 to 10 or 12 seems to be as much, or maybe even less, of a jump to the screenshots of 13 on the PS3.

Stylized graphics definitely make up for the lack of graphical power, and I think as long as the Wii continues to go that route rather then attempt realistic models and environments, it will generally avoid looking bad overall. It's harder looking at say... Red Steel now after seeing more realistic human characters like those in Gears.

Of course, I think overall I prefer 2D games as well. The 2D Zeldas and Marios are still my favs.

The only screens I've seen of FF13 were prerendered cut scenes, and I don't have much interest in comparing them.

The in game graphics thus far aren't as big a jump as in past generations IMO, at least not on SDTVs (and the credit for HD is to the new TVs not to the new consoles).

Gears of War looks great, but comparing it to say Halo 2 or Doom 3 on the X-box and it's not near the improvement of going from say Medal of Honor on the PSX to Halo on the X-box IMO.

What good is giving examples if you don't want to compare them? I hunted down some screenshots for comparison sake just to make sure I wasn't remembering something incorrectly since it's been so long since the PS1. I'm fairly certain some of the FF13 screens are real time, as they show the battle menu. Even still, i stand by my comments.

I even went and hunted down Medal of Honor as it progressed from the PS1 to the PS2 and the upcoming 360 version. I still say the leap to the 360 was as great, if not more. Apologies for anyone reading on smaller screens or slow connections.

Playstation


Playstation 2


XBox 360


Getting off topic since this was originally about the Wii.... so here's Call of Duty 3 on the Wii



I wouldn't consider myself a graphics whore or someone that notices a lot of detail but to me i see big improvements in both.

The 360 shot looks like an HD shot. Remember I was saying on SDTVs, as the added resolution is a TV related advance rather than console hardware.

That is to say that everyone bought an HDTV when they got thier 360 Josh. I've had an HDTV since long before the 360 was around and the leap in the graphics between the xbox and the 360 are night/day.

Using your SDTV argument I could say that computer graphics haven't gotten any better since 1984 since I still use a freakin green monitor. The 360 was made to be played on an HDTV so saying that it doesn't do much to improve the graphics on an SDTV makes no sense. How could it????? A SDTV isn't made to do any higher than 480i but yet some people expect to see some huge difference between the systems in SD?!

Yeah, but its an advance that still requires the HDTV, on top of a $400 console.

There were huge jumps in graphics from NES-->Snes/genesis--->N64/PS1--->PS2/X-box/GC.

So yes people expect to see huge differences on SDTVs just like we did in the past generations. Especially since the 360 is $100-$200 more than any previous console launch, and the PS3 $300-$400 more.

So now you have to pay more for the console PLUS have bought (or buy) an expensive HDTV set to get an arguably comparable graphics improvement.

Just not worth the cash right now to this non-graphics whore/non HDTV owner.

I can't imagine having more fun with gaming than I am now with my Wii. I remember playing commodre 64 games before I was kindergarten. I grew up "gaming", not rating graphics. Some of the first games I ever played didn't even HAVE graphics, they were text adventures for pete's sake and I still could play Planetfall today and have a blast.

To me, gaming is about fun, not processing speed or pixels or i's or p's or 720's or 1080's or shading or lighting or any of that nonsense. If i have a great time, it's a great game. To say that it is "inexcuseable" in the day and time for Nintendo to make a gaming console that puts games back where they NEED to be is ludicrous to me. To me that represents the statement of a graphics whore, somebody who isn't as much of a gamer as a analyst.

These people aren't seeing the forest for the trees. The wii is undeniably the finest gaming machine I've ever owned. I've played the ps3, yes the graphics are amazing, but how many good games are out again? What's the price point? Where's the value? I don't see it.

I have over 50 ps2 games. I love sony. I've been a playstation fanboy since the ps1 came out in my store in 1995. I think they really screwed the pooch this gen. I'm not sure they can recover, but we will certainly see.

I plan on purchasing an xbox360. It looks like fun! But I made my first purchase a Wii for a reason. I knew it would be better...for me! An old school gamer dork who gets on message boards and does the whole "i don't care about graphics and if you do you suck" bit. See? lol

To each their own. I love my Wii, and I'll defend it!

Bravo, straydog, very well said. It's all about the gameplay for me as well. Heck, I'm within 6 feet of a 2600, an NES, an N64 and a PSX, and they're not going on fleaBay anytime soon.

To say that graphics don't matter is absurd. I enjoy 2d games as much as the next guy, but let's be real. They're called VIDEOgames for a reason. Try and think of all the genres that wouldn't even be possible without todays graphics.

Graphics compliment gameplay. They also allow certain gameplay aspects. Currently first-person shooters and open-world games benefit the most from improved graphics.

How crappy would it be if Wii Sports bowling only had the one lane with no spectators, or anything around? PS1 and N64 had fog in a lot of the games so you wouldn't notice entire buildings pop up right in front of you. Now you can take a helicopter ride and seen an entire city. Videogames are about taking you places and giving you experiences you could never do in real life. To effectively do that developers need to be able to portray what they imagine as realistically as possible, whether that be in a cartoonish or photorealistic fashion.

Graphics get you into the game, gameplay keeps you there.

What games are you really having such outstanding fun with? I've only played Wii Sports, Zelda, and Wii Play so far, and the other games aren't, at least reportedly, meant to be particularly great. Zelda is zelda I guess, but I haven't played a lot of it yet. Still it's only one game and frankly I found the graphics disappointing enough (don't hurt me!), to consider the other forum members posts on the zelda threads saying they wish the cartoon style of WW had been kept. Of course, component cables would have helped, everyone just looked slightly muddy on composite.

Apart from zelda, I found Wii Sports to be wildly disappointing. I just so want to be able to take real swings in the games, and being a big fan of Top Spin, it just made me crave a tennis sim where I could do proper tennis shots and be successful rather than little flicks. And the way the characters are automatically moved in tennis makes it such a joke. The net player moves to every ball no matter how far, so if the net player chooses to, they can take every shot. Wii Baseball I just couldn't get the timing and there wasn't much depth. Wii Bowling wasn't bad, but I seemed to get almost random spin on my bowl everytime, and having to use the buttons and dpad on the remote every bowl to set up your angle and position seems to go against the simplicity ideal. Wii boxing was the most fun for me, although the controls often seemed imprecise and I couldn't always do what I wanted to.

Finally, wii play, definitely the pick of the bunch for me. Laser hockey was most awesome multi fun I've had in a while. The imprecise controls actually provided a lot of hilarity with some funny own goals, and definitely the best pong I've ever played (outside of actual air hockey on a proper table). Fishing was simple, but again the hilarity of someone just getting dud fish after dud fish, really worked for us. Billiards, was also really good. The wii remote controls were implemented in both a simple, and obvious way, and frankly I can't imagine a standalone billiards games being much better (apart from inevitable additional modes). Many of the other wii play games were a bit naff, but with the pack-in remote it's undeniable value.

So I'm sure the wii will get some cool games soon, and wii sports has really got me craving some real sim-like sports games, but right now it's quite disappointing. If I had to choose a console and say 3 games to play for a week I'd probably choose any other console of the last 3 gens over the wii.

The component cables made the color separation a lot better but all the jaggies they introduced in Zelda canceled out any improvements. I'm actually going back to the composite cables for the moment - I picked up the component cables from GameStop -

Any idea if the official Nintendo Wii Component Video Cable will introduce jaggies?

Is there any way around the jaggies?

My television: Sony KDF-50WE655

I don't think anyone here disagrees with that. The argument is about the point of deminishing returns. At what point are graphics good enough for the price of entry. The difference between Halo or Ninja Gaiden to Rainbow 6: Vegas or Gears is negligible. Do they look prettier? Of course. With $400-$600 consoles the point is, is it worth the extra scratch? Many argue what was possible on the Xbox is satisfactory for the cost and the slight upgrade in graphics isn't as big of a deal this time around.

Well said Michael.

Graphics are a part of the equation, but not the total. And you outline my diminishing returns point perfectly.

The 360/PS3 game are prettier, but not enough for me to shell out the $400-600, not to mention buying a new TV to get the full effect.

I keep hearing the "diminishing returns" line but I don't think that's fair. Let's be honest, all Nintendo did with the wii -so far- has provided a new way to play the same games. There have been hundreds of Golf, Tennis, and bowling games and from what I understand although Zelda has new ways to play it, it isn't really new either right? All games are simply variations on past games and no company, including Nintendo, is putting out anything wildy new in gaming. So far you guys are cutting Nintendo slack for new ways to play the same old games.

the only game I regret purchasing is Monkey Ball.

Need For Speed: Carbon is a blast.

Excite Truck is awesome

Zelda is awesome

Red Steel is AWESOME

Wii Sports STILL (2.5 months later) gets at least an hour a day from me.

I can't really explain it. I think the wii has great graphics, and especially for first gen releases. There's just something magical about it to me. It captivates me in a way I haven't seen since I was a little boy.

Fair enough. I mean I know that not liking wii sports is quite unusual, but I just can't dig the controls. Is there anyone else who craves more simlike controls for their sports games on wii?

Btw, get wii play, it rocks.

I think it depends on if you have actually played the sport in question. I used to play tennis and I'm a little underwhelmed with WiiTennis. I keep trying top spin but my guy keeps lobbing the ball.

The bowling is pretty accurate though. Probably why it is usually everyone's favorite.

it's not out here yet

I will on February 14th.

and I crave more control also! I can't wait for Tiger Woods 07, it looks awesome! IGN and the general public have also pointed out how realistic the play is in Super Swing Golf.

I'm a top spin fan myself, and because of that I can't WAIT for a "realistic" tennis sim on the wii. Could you imagine Top Spin on the wii? The level of control you had in that game but translated into real motions? pssshtt. I'd be all over it.

i hated red steel, until yesterday.
for some reason, i loved it.

I really wasn't a fan of Super Swing Golf. Though its a tad more realistic, the way the "swing" is setup is just stupid

Yeah that is my problem. I used to play about 4 times a week, competition on weekend. It's since been hard to play regularly but playing Top Spin was a lot of fun, because the strategy you use in that game was the closest to being out on the court than any other tennis game I've played. I'd love a sim game on the wii where I could play full strokes like I used to.

Don't own a wii yet, only played friends. The day that Top Spin or equivalent is effectively translated to wii controls, my money will go straight into nintendos pockets. Damn, I'd lose some weight playing that too .