The Xbox 360 Compendium
08-17-05 | 02:48 PM
#427
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I'm a sweetie! I'm not trying to berate anyone. Promise. And I'd never mock anyone who makes a binary joke in his signature.
08-17-05 | 02:51 PM
#428
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From: Blu-Ray: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Petition
Another thing that was brought up: If an Xbox360 owner uses the wired controllers, they literally only can use 2 controllers. You are forced to purchase the wireless controllers if you want to play a multiplayer game with more than 2 people. It must infuriate everyone here, seeing as how much mud was thrown Sony's way with only 2 controller ports on the PS2.
08-17-05 | 03:22 PM
#429
DVD Talk Special Edition
Here's some info straight from the source at xbox.com. I suggest going there and reading the official word as some of the things that are speculated about in this thread are covered there.
Leipzig FAQ
We've been bombarded with a few gazillion questions since the recent Xbox 360™ announcements from Leipzig, so we've put together some answers to some of your more common questions.
Will I be able to use Xbox Live® if I don't have a hard drive?
You won't need a hard drive to enjoy all the benefits of Xbox Live Silver and Gold with the Core System, but you will at least need a Memory Unit (MU) in order to save your Gamer Profile. If you plan on downloading a lot of content (vehicles, maps, game trailers, demos, etc) you'll want to get a hard drive.
Will I be able to download content from Xbox Live without a hard drive?
Yes, with the 64MB MU you will be able to download content. However, gamers that choose to download lots of content will want to get a hard drive for capacity and flexibility.
Why are there two different systems?
We wanted to give people the opportunity to purchase what they value most. If a hard drive is important to you, you can have one. If you don't feel like you need one, then you don't have to pay for it. And if you decide you want one later, you can always add one.
Why doesn't the Core System come with HDTV cables standard? I thought this was the HD generation?
Not everyone has a high-definition (HD) TV yet. And those people shouldn't have to pay for it until they're ready. Once they do get an HDTV, then they can purchase the appropriate cable as an accessory.
Leipzig FAQ
We've been bombarded with a few gazillion questions since the recent Xbox 360™ announcements from Leipzig, so we've put together some answers to some of your more common questions.
Will I be able to use Xbox Live® if I don't have a hard drive?
You won't need a hard drive to enjoy all the benefits of Xbox Live Silver and Gold with the Core System, but you will at least need a Memory Unit (MU) in order to save your Gamer Profile. If you plan on downloading a lot of content (vehicles, maps, game trailers, demos, etc) you'll want to get a hard drive.
Will I be able to download content from Xbox Live without a hard drive?
Yes, with the 64MB MU you will be able to download content. However, gamers that choose to download lots of content will want to get a hard drive for capacity and flexibility.
Why are there two different systems?
We wanted to give people the opportunity to purchase what they value most. If a hard drive is important to you, you can have one. If you don't feel like you need one, then you don't have to pay for it. And if you decide you want one later, you can always add one.
Why doesn't the Core System come with HDTV cables standard? I thought this was the HD generation?
Not everyone has a high-definition (HD) TV yet. And those people shouldn't have to pay for it until they're ready. Once they do get an HDTV, then they can purchase the appropriate cable as an accessory.
08-17-05 | 03:23 PM
#430
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
Another thing that was brought up: If an Xbox360 owner uses the wired controllers, they literally only can use 2 controllers. You are forced to purchase the wireless controllers if you want to play a multiplayer game with more than 2 people. It must infuriate everyone here, seeing as how much mud was thrown Sony's way with only 2 controller ports on the PS2.
08-17-05 | 04:58 PM
#431
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From: Keizer, OR
Don't think Microsoft doesn't know what they are doing. I doubt the "hardcore" gamer really makes up that large of a user base. If that is who they were catering to, we wouldn't get a holiday launch. MS is aiming for all the parents whose kids want a 360 for Christmas. The 360 Core will sell at $299 and the 360 Premium will sell at $399, and yes, there will be a shortage for Christmas. Once the hype from the holidays settles down, with the PS3 launch looming, MS will announce a price cut and special Halo 3 edition which will include a fancy green faceplate, Halo 3 and everything in the premium package (except of course the remote, because it is for a limited time
) for the same $399. The core will drop to $250 and the premium to $350.
The PS3 will be released at $499...fanboys will be thrilled...
I wil be quite happy as well. I will have peddled my 360, still new in box, that I got at launch to some wealthy last-second Christmas shopper, desperately looking to buy his spoiled child the latest and greatest..for roughly $600. And wait for the Halo 3 Edition...for that fancy green faceplate (and who knows..maybe an HD-DVD drive)
) for the same $399. The core will drop to $250 and the premium to $350.The PS3 will be released at $499...fanboys will be thrilled...
I wil be quite happy as well. I will have peddled my 360, still new in box, that I got at launch to some wealthy last-second Christmas shopper, desperately looking to buy his spoiled child the latest and greatest..for roughly $600. And wait for the Halo 3 Edition...for that fancy green faceplate (and who knows..maybe an HD-DVD drive)
08-17-05 | 06:29 PM
#432
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From: Mayberry, NC. Really, it is
I was looking at getting a 360 at launch. Not now. If Microsoft wants to claim they're selling next-gen hardware for under $300, they shouldn't cripple the system to do it. They want $300 and I still have to buy a friggin' MEMORY CARD ? Ugh 
The $299 version should've been this :
- console
- hard drive
- wired controller
- standard AV cable
This setup provides the same basic package as the original XBox, and builds backward compatability into all XB360's. It also gives XBox Live Silver to all 360 owners right out of the box.
This package puts the system within reach of those (like me) who don't have an HDTV yet but still want to upgrade to new hardware. I would gladly pay for the HD cables in a year or two when I need them.
The $399 version should've been :
- console
- hard drive
- 1 wireless controller
- 1 wired controller
- HD video cables
- headset
- remote
- XBox Gold for 3 months
This bundle builds in plenty of value for those with HD sets and the XBox Live crowd on day one. The wired controller is thrown in for those who want to put off buying the rechargable batteries & charging unit for a few weeks.
Bah. J Allard and the entire XB360 team can blow me.
The $299 version should've been this :
- console
- hard drive
- wired controller
- standard AV cable
This setup provides the same basic package as the original XBox, and builds backward compatability into all XB360's. It also gives XBox Live Silver to all 360 owners right out of the box.
This package puts the system within reach of those (like me) who don't have an HDTV yet but still want to upgrade to new hardware. I would gladly pay for the HD cables in a year or two when I need them.
The $399 version should've been :
- console
- hard drive
- 1 wireless controller
- 1 wired controller
- HD video cables
- headset
- remote
- XBox Gold for 3 months
This bundle builds in plenty of value for those with HD sets and the XBox Live crowd on day one. The wired controller is thrown in for those who want to put off buying the rechargable batteries & charging unit for a few weeks.
Bah. J Allard and the entire XB360 team can blow me.
08-17-05 | 06:46 PM
#433
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From: Westchester, Los Angeles
Interesting blurb at Xbox365, may alleviate some hard drive concerns:
Alright I've seen a lot of xbox faithful suddenly turn around like they got sucker punched but I'm going to take a minute and explain some things from my MS sources.
All right first thing first is that 85% of the Xbox360's Made will be the Premium Package that includes the HDD. The other 15% will be the core systems without the HDD.
Game developers are aware of this, with a 85% HDD attach rate from the start combined with MS's tools, makes it easy to enable disc caching and take advantage of it and also make tags to cache to RAM when the HDD is not present.
The HDD in the 360 is a 20Gb SATA 2.5" Laptop drive that weighs considerably less and is roughly 3x-5x faster than the HDD found in the original Xbox. This HDD is not a 20gb drive you can find for $15 at a flea market. It costs considerably more.
Developers are still writing games to cache to a HDD just like they always have on the Xbox. Those Xbox360's that do not have a HDD will experience 2x-3x more loading time. Also the absence of the ability to save music and save game data will be the only con of not having a HDD.
Those of you who think this idea will flop take a moment to consider that if Core Xbox360's are few in number and are not widely available like the Premium Xbox30 bundle is, which console do you think those mommies and daddies are going to buy? The one they can find almost anywhere as Christmas approaches fast or the one they don’t see as often and offers fewer features?
When it comes to crunch time people are going to spend the extra $100 to guarantee that they will be able to give their son or daughter the gift they want.
All you hardcore faithful have not been forgotten. The HDD will still play a very important role in the Xbox360 just as it has with the original Xbox. Nothing has changed from the Developers standpoint. And nothing has changed from the amount of features available to the Hardcore gamer.
If anything has changed it's that we have a limited price choice and for some people that is what matters the most.
All right first thing first is that 85% of the Xbox360's Made will be the Premium Package that includes the HDD. The other 15% will be the core systems without the HDD.
Game developers are aware of this, with a 85% HDD attach rate from the start combined with MS's tools, makes it easy to enable disc caching and take advantage of it and also make tags to cache to RAM when the HDD is not present.
The HDD in the 360 is a 20Gb SATA 2.5" Laptop drive that weighs considerably less and is roughly 3x-5x faster than the HDD found in the original Xbox. This HDD is not a 20gb drive you can find for $15 at a flea market. It costs considerably more.
Developers are still writing games to cache to a HDD just like they always have on the Xbox. Those Xbox360's that do not have a HDD will experience 2x-3x more loading time. Also the absence of the ability to save music and save game data will be the only con of not having a HDD.
Those of you who think this idea will flop take a moment to consider that if Core Xbox360's are few in number and are not widely available like the Premium Xbox30 bundle is, which console do you think those mommies and daddies are going to buy? The one they can find almost anywhere as Christmas approaches fast or the one they don’t see as often and offers fewer features?
When it comes to crunch time people are going to spend the extra $100 to guarantee that they will be able to give their son or daughter the gift they want.
All you hardcore faithful have not been forgotten. The HDD will still play a very important role in the Xbox360 just as it has with the original Xbox. Nothing has changed from the Developers standpoint. And nothing has changed from the amount of features available to the Hardcore gamer.
If anything has changed it's that we have a limited price choice and for some people that is what matters the most.
08-17-05 | 06:49 PM
#434
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This (and if the PS3 is priced similarly) might be the step I need to finally get out of my terrible habit of needing a next gen machine at launch. I did pretty good last time, holding out on buying an Xbox and a Gamecube until price drops, but I still got all three systems eventually (plus the DC). I know that launch games are usually crap, that prices will eventually go down, and that I have a huge backlog of last-gen games, but I'm always sucked in by the hype. This time, the price may deter me until I find out what the Revolution and PS3 are priced at, and I may finally finish some PS1 rpgs...
(Ah, who am I kidding. I'll probably be camping out at Best buy, cursing myself for not preordering. I'm so weak!)
(Ah, who am I kidding. I'll probably be camping out at Best buy, cursing myself for not preordering. I'm so weak!)
08-17-05 | 07:01 PM
#435
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From: Osaka, Japan
How the hell do they expect basic xbox 360 owners to enjoy game demos without a HDD to download and install them on. I mean why even bother giving them xbox silver anyway, its not like they can actually do anything with it!
08-17-05 | 07:07 PM
#436
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Reading above about the 15% production of the core unit. So the fact they're even building that unit is just to sell a few units to cheap asses? Wouldn't those same people just by a ps2 or xbox for $130, it's not like $299 is a small amount of money. I think they would be better off just ditching the basic unit even if they were still going to sell the unit + HDD + wireless + HD cables at $399. That way there would be no confusion, people buying at launch could get the proper experience, developers would know that HDD penetration really is 100%, and those who can't afford 399 will happily wait till the price drop and still get the full package (rather than some half baked budget version).
08-17-05 | 07:36 PM
#437
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From: Blu-Ray: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Petition
I don't agree with the statement that developers will still cache on the HDD. Why would a developer choose to develop a feature that can not be used by all? In reality, dumping data into the memory is a lot faster than cacheing it on a hard drive. And 12X DVD is pretty damn fast at transfering data from the disc to the memory. The only reason would be to dump more data than you can fit in the system memory. And if you write a game to do that, and the HDD doesn't exist, the game won't run.
The whole point of developing for a console is that you know the system specs. The HDD is not part of the specs, it is an accessory.
Edit: Well, I have to take that back. According to Bethesda Software, Elder's Scrolls 4 will make "extensive use of the hard drive" but will also work without it. Though, I don't imagine it will be any fun to play that game without a hard drive. Back door solutions never work nearly as well.
The whole point of developing for a console is that you know the system specs. The HDD is not part of the specs, it is an accessory.
Edit: Well, I have to take that back. According to Bethesda Software, Elder's Scrolls 4 will make "extensive use of the hard drive" but will also work without it. Though, I don't imagine it will be any fun to play that game without a hard drive. Back door solutions never work nearly as well.
Last edited by joshd2012; 08-17-05 at 08:06 PM.
08-17-05 | 08:39 PM
#438
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I have to say I will probably try and get the 399.99 version at Wal-Mart. Before I was happy having my preorder in at GameStop but now I think I'll go to GameStop with my reserve slip and send my wife out to use her discount card if she gets there in time. That should ease the pain of the more expensive system a bit more.
I'd be a much happier camper if the cable weren't packed in cause I'm going to be getting cables I don't need right away and I'll have to dish out for another kind.
I'd be a much happier camper if the cable weren't packed in cause I'm going to be getting cables I don't need right away and I'll have to dish out for another kind.
08-17-05 | 10:09 PM
#439
DVD Talk Special Edition
Originally Posted by MasterofDVD
I'd be a much happier camper if the cable weren't packed in cause I'm going to be getting cables I don't need right away and I'll have to dish out for another kind.
From the accessory part of the xbox website:
Component HD-AV Cable: Optimized for standard and high-definition televisions.
At the top of that page,
It's not a very good picture, but it looks like there might be a yellow composite plug between the component video and the audio. Now that I think about it, it may be a digital audio output, but it's hard to say. Now I'm curious because if that is a composite jack, where will we get a digital audio signal from?
edit: They should really consolidate and organize their information more.
It looks like I was right. From here:
Xbox 360 HD-AV Cable.
This connects gamers to the world of Xbox 360 games and graphics through high-definition and standard-definition connections.
Now I'm especially perplexed about the audio. Unless they're planning to announce a "choice" between Dolby Pro Logic with the included cables or a $50 upgrade with an optical cable for Dolby Digital.
edit again: It's also worth noting that the page I linked in the last edit also shows that same cable and description under the accessories included in the core package. This is most likely an error since it conflicts with everything else they've stated, but they really need to get organized.
Last edited by sdcrym; 08-17-05 at 10:29 PM.
08-17-05 | 10:29 PM
#440
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I imagine it will have an optical out for the surround sound. Maybe built into the console, rather than built in to the a/v cable kit. And you'll thus have to buy, or have on hand, your own optical cable again. I hated it on the X-box when I got home with the advanced A/V pack for S-video and then had to turn around and head back to the store to get an optical cable for the surround sound to work.
08-17-05 | 10:38 PM
#441
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Originally Posted by sdcrym
Now I'm especially perplexed about the audio. Unless they're planning to announce a "choice" between Dolby Pro Logic with the included cables or a $50 upgrade with an optical cable for Dolby Digital.
08-17-05 | 10:40 PM
#442
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well i was considering a 360 at launch, not anymore. Their $299 package is there just so they can say they launched at under $300, when they know damn well everyone will get the $399 "value pack."
08-17-05 | 10:45 PM
#443
DVD Talk Special Edition
Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
???? Optical cables aren't expensive at all. The optical jack is at the base of the cords, near where it plugs into the console. It doesn't come with an optical cable, though, just like last time.
Are you just guessing about the jack at the base of the plug? It's kind of hard to see. I haven't seen the newer version of the current xbox HD cables, so I don't know if that's what you're basing it on.
Last edited by sdcrym; 08-17-05 at 10:50 PM.
08-17-05 | 10:49 PM
#444
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From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Originally Posted by sdcrym
I never said optical cables are expensive.
Originally Posted by sdcrym
Are you just guessing about the jack at the base of the plug? It's kind of hard to see. I haven't seen the newer version of the current xbox HD cables, so I don't know if that's what you're basing it on.
Clearly marked and color coded audio and video connectors make it easy to know where to plug each connector in.
Unlock true Xbox 360 Hi-Definition gaming with video output settings of 480p, 720p, or 1080i.
Gold plated video and stereo audio contacts for maximum clarity and signal transfer.
Mylar foil and copper braid shielding protect against radio frequency and electromagnetic interference.
8 feet long shielded cable.
Digital Optical Audio Output—optical cable sold separately.
Stereo Audio Output.
Hi-Definition/Standard TV video output switch.
Unlock true Xbox 360 Hi-Definition gaming with video output settings of 480p, 720p, or 1080i.
Gold plated video and stereo audio contacts for maximum clarity and signal transfer.
Mylar foil and copper braid shielding protect against radio frequency and electromagnetic interference.
8 feet long shielded cable.
Digital Optical Audio Output—optical cable sold separately.
Stereo Audio Output.
Hi-Definition/Standard TV video output switch.
08-17-05 | 11:02 PM
#446
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Xbox 360 GUI explained here: http://www.xboxyde.com/leech_1583_en.html
08-18-05 | 12:42 AM
#447
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i love how there's so many justifications for microsofts plans for 2 versions of the x360. whatever you say guys, whatever you say. the core version is out there just so they can say "starts at $299".
08-18-05 | 01:26 AM
#448
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Originally Posted by Chris_D
Reading above about the 15% production of the core unit. So the fact they're even building that unit is just to sell a few units to cheap asses? Wouldn't those same people just by a ps2 or xbox for $130, it's not like $299 is a small amount of money. I think they would be better off just ditching the basic unit even if they were still going to sell the unit + HDD + wireless + HD cables at $399. That way there would be no confusion, people buying at launch could get the proper experience, developers would know that HDD penetration really is 100%, and those who can't afford 399 will happily wait till the price drop and still get the full package (rather than some half baked budget version).
08-18-05 | 01:38 AM
#449
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IGN put up some ultra high-res pics up of the 360/controller for those interested. http://media.xbox360.ign.com/article...52/imgs_1.html
08-18-05 | 11:13 AM
#450
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From: Blu-Ray: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Petition
Saw this in another Forum, and thought it was interesting:
For all you skeptics...
Xbox $299
-DVD Remote $29
-HD Cables $29
-Headset: $29
TOTAL: $390
And now you bought:
Xbox 360 Premium Package
(includes everything above): $399
TOTAL: $399
For all you skeptics...
Xbox $299
-DVD Remote $29
-HD Cables $29
-Headset: $29
TOTAL: $390
And now you bought:
Xbox 360 Premium Package
(includes everything above): $399
TOTAL: $399