That's awesome how this launch is already doomed and that other console makers are so much better. It's really great that so many people are writing this off early so we don't have to hear them complain about it later.

Who's buying a DVD remote? Even Grandmas and Grandpas have stand alone DVD players at this point. I don't think many people will be using this as their priomary DVD player.....

Personally, as I have said before, I think MS has a crap load of stuff to show off that is going to impress quite a few naysayers. Looking over their finacials its obvious MS has sunk a crap load of money into launching this system. If this console does not do significantly better (40%+) then the current generation MS will pull out of console gaming. So this is for all the chips.

No, you misunderstood.

Width-wise it fits fine in my component rack. I just had to remove some other things (VCR and N64) to make room for it there as it's too heavy for me to be comfortable sitting it on the flimsy DVD player (Sony one) and it's not flat on top so the DVD player won't sit stable on it.

It was too wide to fit behind the too wooden doors under my tv. That area isn't made for components. But the PS2 and GC fit under there well. I just wish the X-box would have as well and was flat on top so the PS2 could have sat on top of it.

I like to keep my consoles out of site when not in use. They just don't match other home theater stuff well at all.

Ok, from that last picture it looks like without the HD it's a little narrower than the original PS2, so it should fit in the compartment under my TV.

Hopefully the 299$ price point includes the hard drive. Then price one sans drive for 199$ or 249$ and i think they could definately move a few more units. I really want the HD included one at launch but i won't be able to make myself play 399$ for the thing.

Looks like their design target was "just a bit smaller than the PS2". I guess they figure if no one bitched about the PS2 being too big, they can't bitch about this design if it's the same size or smaller.

That black thing next to the memory card slots looks almost certainly to be an IR window. I'm expecting that this thing will play audio CD's and DVD-Video and act as a Media Center Extender out of the box. It probably won't record video, but it should play back anything stored on a Windows MCE device. They'll probably charge $30 for the MCE remote (which is pretty nice as opposed to those utter POS DVD Remotes).

With it standing vertical, the black thing on the top is where the HD goes. When you look at that closeup of the HD, there's an LED. On all the horizontal shots of the front face, it looks like it's just a dark cover with no LED, which is probably what it is. Without the HD, you cover up the HD expansion slot with a plastic cover which I'd guess probably also stores memory cards or something.

The HD itself doesn't look like it'll play MP3's or anything. It's not shaped correctly for it and there's no LCD of any kind unless they designed it to face into the unit when attached, which would be retarded, IMO. I think that rumor was just wishful thinking. BTW, it looks like the HD is a 2.5" laptop form factor drive. Given that and the usual price inflation for game accessories, the $100 price seems like a good guess.

There's still that panel/slot on the bottom (when standing vertically). It may be some kind of expansion slot or maybe just a cover for front facing ports of some kind.

Looks nice... much better than I thought it would. Now Revolution needs a similar high-tech design. Not sure I like the name still. What are they going to do for the next XBOX after the 360? 720? 1080? Seems like they've painted themselves into a corner with the name. Wireless controllers built in is a GREAT idea although not sure how they'll handle the battery issue. So I guess this confirms no backwards compatibility. Without the HD there's no way this thing can play XBOX games from my understanding because the HD is needed as a cache. Get ready for PS2 type loading times kids!

The gamecube has proven that better programming, etc. can reduce load times to where they don't matter.

Yeah, load times shouldn't be bad. A fast DVD drive nowadays can easily hit over 10 MB/s transfer rate and as long as MS provides tools and guidelines on how to optimize formatting of the disk and pre-fetching data, load times can be pretty minimal.

I don't think anyone is saying that (well at least I wasn't). We know very little of the software or final specs and prices of the Xbox360. I think MS did a great job with the Xbox and built up quite a nice following this generation. They are going to carry over and improve Xbox Live and take most of their current audience with them to the next generation. I think this system will have a pretty nice launch and so little is known about the PS3 other than it is rumored to be a powerhouse system that there is no way to call it a guaranteed winner next generation.

Launching Xbox360 a year early is a good stragedy in my opinion. They will build up momentum and if nothing else it will probably be much more successful than the Xbox was. Even if it doesn't take the lead away from Sony in the long run it has an excellent chance to be a strong and profitable second and continue to build Microsoft towards its long term goals. It could also be such a big hit that Sony never catches up to it with the PS3. Sony has split their focus with the PSP so this gives a big advantage to MS. MS certainly is in a much better position than Nintendo to compete with Sony for the home console market.

The only negative I have is the HD being optional. Hopefully though the memory cards will be large enough that even if you don't get a HD you can still download maps and stuff on a 256mb or 512mb card for $40 or so.

As lame an impetus to buy a new console as it will be, imagine Madden 2006 looking like that commercial for XBOX 360 and imagine Madden 2006 looking like PS2 Madden 2005 for the PS2. I'm sure that will move a few units if that happens.

I thought you were giving up gaming...?

From what I'm told, the most exciting thing about the 360 launch will be an unprecidented list of launch titles. The hardware itself doesn't really matter much to me - I thought the xbox was good looking enough and feature-wise, it had lots of bang for the buck. I have no doubt that the next gen will be a similar story. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be picking up a PS3 because I don't have a PS2, but I do have alot of PS2 games.

That comment of mine was just a little sarcastic humor not aimed at anyone in particular - basically to express how annoying I think it is that people not only dog on something that isn't even out yet (so they have little to nothing to base their opinion on), but they continue to do so endlessly after condemning the thing to hell and vowing never to buy/watch/own/play/see it. Like, what's the point?

"ahh, the next michael bay movie is gonna suck ass - I refuse to go see it. I've never seen any of his crappy movies."
-next day, new cast announcements made
"ahh, I hate these actors and I never see movies they are in."
-next day, script is released
"ahh, what a horrible script, I read it 5 times and thought it was stupid the first time I read it."
-next day, new trailer comes out
"ahh, what a pile of shit... still look stupid."
-next day, article is written about it
"ahh, that's so stupid, people are stupid for liking this. hate hate hate."
-next day, someone farts in utah
"ahh, I watched the trailer again for the 30th time, it still looks like a piece of shit."
-goes on for months until film is released
"ahh, stupid people going to see this movie. It sucks and I haven't even seen it, but it's making tons of money. It affects my life deeply and I'm not even interested in movies or michael bay because I don't have time to leave the house and I have better things to spend my money on."

Never said that. I said this coming gen is the gaming industry last chance to win me over/rekindle my interest to the level it was in the 16 bit days.

I'm just going to wait until all 3 consoles are out and have several games each, and decide which one to buy. If which ever I end up chosing (PS3 is the frontrunner at the moment) gets my interest up I may pick up the others.

I agree. I think that the japanese launch will definitely be stronger, and they have a much nicer overall package this time round, hardware wise. Regardless of the imagined power of the PS3, the xbox 360, is pretty mind blowing power-wise.

I think they have proven to the industry that they are serious about being the leader in consoles and that they will work with third parties, spend money and do whatever is necessary to be successful. The third parties have definitely taken notice and the Japanese support is going to be very good. They should do much better this time out in Japan no question. That could be a great thing for gamers, because more Japanese publishers on board means a wider variety of games for the system. IMO the biggest advantage the PS2 had over the Xbox was pure variety. I think that gap will be narrowed big time with this generation.

I think so too. I'm sure a lot of PS2 owners are envious of the great xbox (live) community, but they don't want to buy a system at the end of its life-cycle. If I were MS, I'd release it at the $199 price point so it would catch all those folks. I'm sure those guys could afford to lose ~$100 million to ensure every gamer owns an xbox.

I'm not liking that design - however, I hated the design of the Xbox(and the green color scheme) and have grown to like it over the years.
However, I think the name Xbox360 plain sucks.

Why is white so trendy lately? I liked the black/green color of the xbox. I think they should have stayed with it. I don't care how big a console is, as long as it kicks ass, and is afordable. I would buy it day 1 if it were less than $300 w/ HD.

So if I spend $2000 to building a computer where the primary purpose is to play games, its a toy?

All games are not toys. Sports are games. Sports are not toys.

Gotta agree with that game being toys comment seeming a little harsh. I think we've come a long way from the Atari 2600 and Colecovision baby. There's no reason a console can't look good with the rest of an HT setup. I think the original PS2 was one of the better units in that regard. It was distinctive, yet would fit in with other gear. This design for the new Xbox, while certainly looking "innovative" really stands out IMHO. Which might be what they want it to do, though of course they should have the software doing that.

And I would say my wife and I use our PS2 for DVD watching just as much, if not more, than for gameplaying (and a good percentage of that is PS1 games) so we're the ones that are buying this stuff. We held out for a while on buying a PS2 (shortages aside) because we really didn't see a killer app. When they finally got back in stock, we decided it would be nice to have a backup DVD player and PS1, plus there would probably be some decent PS2 titles down the road...

Yes, it's just a really expensive one .

you misunderstood me

since this is the "Video Game Forum", by games I meant Video Games are still considered toys. Your sports example doesn't make any sense.

But what about sports video games. They're not toys, they're simulations.

video games are toys about as much as pool and poker and darts and cell phones and PDAs and chess and backgammon are toys. I never heard of a board game being called a toy. What's your point anyway? video games are toys so we're all infants? Grow up.