Fair point, but I still think the idea of a "system seller" is a legitimate point to bring up and I think most people would agree with me.

Remember we're not talking "preference" here. We're looking at it from a "business" perspective. So you have to try and leave preference aside for a moment.

Halo 2, altho not being released for the Holidays (March), is definitely going to be in the public's eye throughout the holidays and a reminder that it's right around the corner.

If another GTA was coming out in March, I'm sure Sony would be doing the same thing...

I would somewhat count that as a holiday system seller, even though it's not a holiday release.

I'm so sorry but I got a little off track...what were we talking about again?

Oh yeah the rumored price cut! Eh, wait it out and see what happens.

I don't see it happening this soon. Maybe closer to the Playstation 3, but not this soon.

The black friday deal makes the most sense.

I picked some higher-profile games from just a three week period of upcoming releases. I made no point to pick exclusive games, since I was responding to the ludicrous idea that anybody unwrapping an Xbox has nothing to play until next June (which obviously includes the theory that nothing released up until this point, nor any upcoming game outside that three week window, is worth playing either).

As far as multiplatform titles not factoring in, give me a break. I'm sure Donkey Kong on the Colecovision wasn't a selling point since it was put on the Atari 2600. And Mortal Kombat on Genesis gave no sales advantage over SNES. And, conversely, all the later versions of SFII gave no advantage to the Super Nintendo.

Any distinguishing characteristic is a factor. Price, design, the most exclusive games, the best exclusive games, the best multi-platform versions of games, the controller, sound, visuals, etc... if there's a difference, it matters. And whatever matters most is up to each individual consumer.

[Just head to a sports forum, such as Operation Sports', and ask whether having the best versions of multiplatform sports games has influenced console buying decisions in the past.]

You initially said there are no system sellers on Xbox and PS2, so what is the point about them about which people would be agreeing with you?

That was a secondary point I wouldn't have bothered writing about if your bizarre comments about there being no games to play on Christmas morning ('You'll have to wait 'til next June'), which makes no sense describing any of the established machines out now, hadn't inspired me to reply in the first place.

Thus, there's quite a bit of irony being instructed by you to put personal preference aside when looking at the business side of why people may buy one, or more, of them.

All the analyses I've seen that showed this only estimated the cost of building and shipping each machine. They didn't factor in the reasearch and development costs of designing the machine, and all the marketing over its lifetime. Once you add those costs to each machine, they still lose money even at the end of the generation.

For those who think Sony can win the battle of the bulge on this season alone, you guys are crazy. MS will at least have a go at the Xbox 2 and probably stick that out for 2-3 years before it gives up.

Not everyone used to buy MS Office (Lotus, WP, and others were better at the time...) however they stuck it out and came out on top by pumping in plenty of money and being persistant.

Quitters they are not.

My reference was that the "BIG" games for the XBox that people are looking forward to aren't going to see the light of day till 2004. What are those games? I referenced to Halo2, Half Life 2, and Fable. I also said that at $99, the PS2 would "sell itself" in spite of not having a huge system selling game ala GTA. So I believe what I said was a reasonable assessment. I don't think people are going to go out of their way to play Return Of The King, Amped 2 or SSX3 soley on the XBox. I don't think it's a "bizzare comment" at all. If you're going to open up an XBox you WILL be waiting till 2004 to play it's "A" titles. Waiting till June was a hyperbole ( an exagerated statement used to illustrate a point) but I think it brought the point across.

I don't think there's any irony in my statement. Name one of those games you mentioned that will "sell" people on the XBox? Remember, by contrast to the XBox, I had said that at $99 the PS2 would "sell itself". Again you failed to see the CONTEXT of my statment.

If you had bothered to use my entire quote in it's proper context rather than selectively using a part of it you would have seen my point more clearly.

Well here's to hoping it actually does drop. Anything $150 and below is the perfect price for a system. If the PS2 in fact does drop to $99, you'll see me at the stores on black Friday

I love how you continually talk about individual titles and tell me to name a game that will sell people on the Xbox after you just quoted me rejecting your premise. Talk about missing the point.

Even the Jaguar had a "system seller" in AvP, but it's the totality of the library that is a much bigger factor. The only people that are happy to buy a system for one game, never to play another, are found on videogame messageboards. If all it took was one spectacular title, everybody into gaming would have bought every system ever released.

And I love how you seem to think MS wouldn't drop within minutes to match Sony's price cut. You don't think the Xbox would sell itself at $99? Well, obviously you don't, since there's nothing worth playing until June, but the other 99% of the population interested in the industry would just laugh at that idea.

*****

Just to get a sense of what should be thought of your 'business' perspective, you seem to be inferring Xbox will sell less than last year's fourth quarter ("If Sony really did want to stick it MS and run the XBox into the ground... they could do it very easily this holiday season").

Would you clarify this?

I think they could very well stick it to MS and run the XBox this holiday season. Why? Because as I said that even without a system seller this holiday season at $99 the PS2 would be a huge bargain. And with the a terrific Greatest Hits lineup, there's a plethora of great games for the taking. Microsoft already loses money on the XBox. By dropping the price to $99 they would increase their losses naturally. MS would in fact drop the XBox to $99, however they would have substantially more to lose from in terms of increased red ink. Sony, having already reached the point where it's more than made money on the PS2, could lower the the sale price of the PS2 easily. Especially since Sony has consolidated the hardware inside the machine and reduced production costs they would still have some profit margin left on each unit sold.

But of course this is a ludicrous idea because Mr. Snowmizer seems to know everything better than everyone else. Therefore this is the last post I will make on this subject. Because no matter how I explain my position you refuse acknowledge any other view point but your own. And that's even after I had said that you brought a "fair point".

hello Trees?? Is there a forest around here somewhere???

Harlock & Snowmizer, knock it off guys. Keep it friendly or stop. OK?

Previously, you're talking about whether/why an Xbox would sell. Everything in the above refers to profit. And nowhere did you answer my last question.

So you've gone from Xbox isn't going to sell, due to a lack of "system sellers", to MS is going to get crushed by red ink from all the Xboxes it will sell at a loss?

Tough to argue with this kind of logic.

Like I said, keep it friendly or stop

I don't think anyone has said that.

Of course the X-box 2 will come out. That said, the more they lose this generation, and the less market share they gain, the worse off they are at the start of the next generation.

The key to gaining ground is having killer exclusive games that appeal to the mass market of casual gamers. If they don't find a way to make up some ground before the end of this generation, few third parties are going to give them hit exclusives next gen as they'd make a lot more money going exclusive on the PS2 or multi-platform.

But like I've said repeatedly, there's really nothing MS or Nintendo can do. Sony will continue to rule the console world until they make some kind of huge mistake. They'd both be wise to aim their strategies at taking a firm second place and finding a way to make money as the "little brother" in the console world. Sony's simply going to continue to have the best/most exclusives until they do something to alienate developers like Nintendo did with the N64.

By the way, congratulations on bringing up a different argument, then trying to quote me as saying it was "a ludicrous idea". The only time I used that phase, as everyone can see is in the following:

Could this be just a ploy to get people to hold off from buying a diff system?

Get them excited about buying a PS2 'cuz of the possible price drop, not drop the price, and people will buy it anyways 'cuz they've been all excited about the games they want to play on the system.

Why buy a GC when you can buy a PS2 for the same price? Not trying to knock the GC (I have one and am happy with it), but if I didn't have one, I prob would buy the PS2 at that price and wait on the GC to drop further.

I would belive it, if it was from a reputable source. But a friend of a friend of a friend's friend is not a legitamate source

I think this is part of SONY Plan....they jsut send out unclear information and hope it Against & slow GC sale.

Business Stragety!!!

The only reason I would have gotten a PS2 is GTA. And now I don't have to since it will be on the Xbox in a few weeks. They could sell it for $50 and I still wouldn't get one.

Pretty much the same for me.

I don't have time for 3 consoles. I currently have a GC and an X-Box (and a GBA), and just jumped on X-Box Live.

X-Box live is pretty much owning me right now for my gaming time.

I still wonder whether or not Blockbuster made a huge mistake when they dropped the prices on all of their systems to 149 and 99. There doesn't seem to be any indication from Sony or Microsoft that there will be a price drop, but they did a nationwide Blockbuster one anyway...

HOw long as Blockbuster been doing this?

This is the first I've heard of this. Anyone else confirm it.

Blockbuster may have simply decided to quit selling consoles and just be trying to clear inventory.