My post-E3 thoughts are that I was right. I think things are going to turn around soon. I certainly hope so.

I was playing the pre-order game over at ebgames.com (not that I'd ever buy from them, but I use their cart to remind me what's coming out that I should pick up cheaper elsewhere) and managed to squeeze over 1500 bucks worth of PC games in my cart. Almost all are pre-orders. It prompted me to look up this thread that nobody cares about anymore and post my cart which is full of games that I plan to buy when they are released. I'm fully aware that most of these release dates are probably B.S. and it's possible that some of these games won't even be released at all... still, I can't help but be excited again for PC gaming.

Call of Cthulhu - Dark Corners Of The Earth PC Pre-Order: Ships on 2/29/2004
SWAT: Urban Justice with Bonus! PC Pre-Order: Ships on 2/14/2004
TEAM FORTRESS 2 PC Pre-Order: Ships on 6/14/2004
Deus Ex: Invisible War PC Pre-Order: Ships on 10/14/2003
Halo: Combat Evolved PC Pre-Order: Ships on 9/30/2003
DRIVER 3 PC Pre-Order: Ships on 3/1/2004
TRON 2.0 PC Pre-Order: Ships on 8/26/2003
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic PC Pre-Order: Ships on 10/14/2003
Ghost Master PC Pre-Order: Ships on 9/2/2003
SAM AND MAX 2 PC Pre-Order: Ships on 1/1/2004
Full Throttle II: Hell on Wheels PC Pre-Order: Ships on 10/14/2003
Homeworld 2 PC Pre-Order: Ships on 8/26/2003
XIII PC Pre-Order: Ships on 10/9/2003
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse PC Pre-Order: Ships on 10/21/2003
Battlefield 1942: Secret Weapons of WWII PC Pre-Order: Ships on 9/14/2003
Call of Duty PC Pre-Order: Ships on 10/28/2003
Runaway: A Road Adventure PC Pre-Order: Ships on 8/18/2003
Psychotoxic PC Pre-Order: Ships on 10/7/2003
Half Life 2 PC Pre-Order: Ships on 9/30/2003
BLACK & WHITE 2 PC Pre-Order: Ships on 2/1/2004
The Movies PC Pre-Order: Ships on 1/14/2004
Trinity PC Pre-Order: Ships on 1/14/2004
The Sims 2 PC Pre-Order: Ships on 2/1/2004
VAMPIRE: BLOODLINES PC Pre-Order: Ships on 1/14/2004
Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne PC Pre-Order: Ships on 11/14/2003
Painkiller PC Pre-Order: Ships on 10/21/2003
Far Cry PC Pre-Order: Ships on 11/14/2003
Beyond Good and Evil PC Pre-Order: Ships on 11/14/2003
CITY OF HEROES PC Pre-Order: Ships on 3/14/2004
SPLINTER CELL 2 PC Pre-Order: Ships on 3/14/2004
MACE GRIFFIN BOUNTY HUNTER PC Pre-Order: Ships on 9/2/2003
Thief III PC Pre-Order: Ships on 2/6/2004

That's not to mention games that are already out like Postal 2 and Rise of Nations or games like Doom 3, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Chrome and Duke Nukem Forever (yeah right).

Take a look at S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Not only is that game simply amazing to look at.. but the gameplay seems pretty interesting. It's like Morrowind the way that FPS gamers like.

Here's a Q&A:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/st...w_6029871.html

I'm totally PC Gamer, haven't bought a console since SNES, and never will again.

The problem with PC Gaming right now is that lots of people don't know how to use a computer for games... it's too complicated. The money is in consoles. As a result all the games we get are ones that could possibly be used for console ports. So we get watered down **** constantly. I'm tired of it.

Actually - there's a cycle to it. New consoles come out and PC game sales start to sag... it's been happening for years. After a few years of the console's run, PC games make a comeback. Every time the comeback is less and less dynamic. I think PC gaming is going to make a big comeback this time... maybe not hugantical, but big. PC gaming right now is really easy actually... just install and go - don't you remember back in the day having to select your sound card from a list or having to use a boot disc to play games? It wasn't that long ago. PC gaming has gotten easier every year. The only pain in the butt these days are drivers and patches - as long as you got the latest drivers, you're usually okay. I rarely have problems these days as opposed to the days of Win98 gaming and back when video cards started to become a big deal.

As for the console ports - you'll see less and less of that as time goes on for this generation of consoles since PC gaming is always pushing limits while console gaming stays stuck in the same technology for 5 years. Try playing a new game on a 5 year old PC... you can't. That's because games that come out today push the hardware. It's already started as evidenced by the ugliness of Wolfenstein and Deus Ex 2 on the Xbox compared to the PC versions... just wait until Doom3 and Half-Life 2 make their eventual way to the Xbox - they won't look nearly as good.

You just wait - as a PC gamer, I think you'll be happy over the next year... You're right to think that PC games have been alot of crap lately - there's been slim pickins since developers were scrambling to get games to the consoles. There certainly have been some gems though... don't forget Mafia or RTCW or No One Lives Forever 2... Things will get better very soon - you'll see.

The return? When did they ever leave? PC games for the last 8 years if not more have had a constant stream of really solid games coming out and certainly that's where most of the innovation (graphics, netplay, and gameplay) have been. Have sales actually gotten worse? The only difference is that the PC game market AFAIK has never been as big as the console one, so we don't get to see as much advertising from them. When Microsoft drops $1 billion pushing the Xbox and its lineup, it's kinda tough for individual PC games to compete for mindshare. But that doesn't mean the PC arena has slipped. Never mind the magazines (who stills read mags when you have the Internet?), but the impression I have of the PC market is a slow but steady upward trend. Perhaps I don't play enough games, but I think it's really cool that I can pick up practically any (non-budget) PC game and it's a good time. There are a couple of shitstorms to avoid, of course, but I'm just shocked at how many have been really really solid.

ipkevin - yeah... it's true, PC gaming comes and goes in waves... you're right in that there's always some really solid titles out there, but it's not quite the steady stream you seem to remember. PC gaming has been in a lull since the debut of the PS2 compared to previous years. The next year will be different. I'm not the only one who thinks so either - This month's PC Gamer has an article called 20 Best Games of E3 which starts off with the following quote:

Sure, there's some magazine fanboy loyalty going on here and once could interpret this to mean that they feel this way every year, but I take "once again" to mean that developers and publishers are coming back to the PC again.

We're at the point now where minimum system requirements for new PC games are equal to or higher than the equivalent system spec for the Xbox... the most powerful of the consoles.

Preaching to the choir Trigger :P Been a PC Gamer for so long, I understand these cycles, but sure doesn't make them any less annoying

Why I think PC gaming went down the crapper:

-The majority of people out there are not (as stated) hardcore gamers and dont really keep up with the lastest hardware and software updates. Heck, most casual pc users don't even know "patching" software or getting new drivers for hardware
-Which leads into this- most people also can't afford to keep up with the the hardware. Keep in mind that the a lot of you guys that come to this forum are "in the know" of these things and as this is your hobby, you are willing to spend 400 bucks on the newest geforce card.

Computers are deemed "outdated" 6 months after they come out and begins to run sluggish after a year and a half or so. Most people can't afford (or won't) buy a new pc every 2 years, it's just not partical.

As for the games, like everyone else says, they is nothing new or interesting out there. All I see are FPS on the market right now.

And on MMRPGs- there seems to be a HUGE amount of them coming out within the next year- I don't think more then 2 or 3 will really hit it big (World of Warcraft and Star Wars Glaxy). No one is going to paying 10 bucks a month on 2 or more of these things a month.

If you honestly think that, you aren't really looking and aren't qualified to comment on this topic. Nothing could be further from the truth.

As much as I have complained on this thread about the games out, the games are only like this because of the developers, not because of hardware or anything like that.

I used a 166mhz pc for 4 years before upgrading and I could play all the new games, as long as the details were turned down. I did buy two video cards over the course of that 2 years, but that was it. There were still tons of games being made over the years that didn't need the newest stuff to run it (Half Life engine games, Diablo 2, many RTSes) and there still is now.

I don't think PC Gaming has gone down the crapper so to speak, there's still great stuff being made (I'd still say better than consoles) but consoles get the lions share of attention because people use them more because so many are utterly clueless about computers, kids can't really use computers ect. There's just been less greatness because everyone wants to make sure the game will also play on the consoles, which are limited in many areas (not just technologically, but in the case of the PS2, this is a big deal, and it's quickly becoming a big deal for the other systems.)

Nice thread. Me myself, I just got into Counter-Stike, anybody play this game? Well, I haven't played my PS2 in a few months cause i've been so caught up in this awesome online game. I reccomend it to any FPS enthusiast.

Yes, Counterstrike was the most popular online game for many years. It was all made by a mod team, a team that was not even a profession developer... just a bunch of guys who changed Half Life into a new game... and offered their mod for download.

That's why I love PC gaming.

It's incredibly out dated now though. This was at it's height before the PS2 was out...

I never played it much myself, I prefered Team Fortress Classic and Codename Eagle...

Counterstrike is still played by thousands of people... I wouldn't say it's horribly outdated - looking at screenshots from the betas and screen shots from today, I'd say it's held up quite nicely through updates.

Those same mod guys made a mod for Quake called Action Quake that I used to beta test with them... it was really cool too. They're nice guys.

I didn't say horribly outdated... incredibly outdated. So no, not horrible as in bad, but incredible as in very much so

I still like the Half Life engine a lot more than the Quake 3 one... while it may look pretty, I find the Quake 3 engine feels like you're sliding around with very little "feel" to it.

But graphically, it's very behind the times, we should all be able to admit that Of course, I still play Lemmings, so no big deal there

I agree that it's BS to say that "there's nothing but FPSs coming out" but I do agree with his assertion that there's nothing new or exciting coming out (both on PCs and Consoles). I'm losing interest fast because almost every game is just rehash of another game, or simply combines elements from several games.

And yet you continue to post in the video games forum... alot... no offense, but it just seems like most of the time you're just talking about how much you just aren't really into gaming at all or that you're 'casual' about it and I sometimes wonder why you even like to talk about video games so much if you don't like them. I'm not saying that you aren't entitled to talk about whatever you want, but there should be a correlation between your interest in said topic and the amount of comments you make about it. Not to mention, you post alot in topics that you've stated complete disassociation with - PC Gaming for example - you aren't a PC gamer and yet you appear in this thread numerous times... each time dragging the thread off topic. Or you'll go into a thread about an online multiplayer game that you've never played and say how much you don't like online games or multiplayer games repeatedly and you haven't even played any (or many).

Now to try and get back on topic - I'll address what you said here - If you honestly think nothing new or exciting is coming out for PCs (or consoles), then as far as I can tell - you either have poor taste in games (from where I sit) or you aren't really taking a very good look at what's coming out, or you just aren't into gaming in general (and should probably find something else to discuss IMO). The fact that you can't see anything new and exciting coming out makes me feel kinda sorry for you - cuz there is indeed a ton of stuff on the horizon that is new and exciting. Sure - there's lots of sequels - but they are hardly re-hashes of old played out crap. A game can have the same basic premise as an older game and still be innovative, new and exciting. In your estimation - Metroid invented a new genre and innovated and redefined First Person games in general or whatever - and yet, STALKER is nothing new or exciting? There's nothing new or exciting going on with Half Life 2? C'mon.

My most aniticpated game in Deus Ex 2, but I'm very worried about it since it'll be on consoles as well. I thought the first one was terrible on the Ps2 because of it's memory limitations.

My anticipation for the title dropped once I saw the ports... I've read that the only thing they changed so it would work on consoles was that they dummied up the interface a bit. Seeing the interface - I didn't like it that much, but it's not that bad.

Well, quite simply, I don't belive them. When the first game has transition problems, the second more advanced game is going to as well.

I still love games, I'm just growing more and more dissapointed with them.

I agree that the sequels and stuff can be pretty innovative, but I really want to see some games that are almost totally new. I mean I loved Mario Sunshine, but it was more or less Mario 64 with a water pack. It wasn't the same game, but it was similar enough that it didn't excite me like Mario 64 did.

I also never claimed that Metroid invented a new genre, just that all FPS with more emphasis on exploration should be called first person adventure games simply to be more clear. I'm sure their are numerous PC FPS I haven't played that could fall under the FPA label-- Deus Ex perhaps? Metroid was still more or less rehas (albeit a fantastic game) as it was more or less Super Metroid in 3D with a first person persepective.

That's the way I feel about most games coming out. I still have a lot of fun with them, but they just don't excite me as much as they used to because it's more or less just the same old stuff with a few minor innovations.

As for posting in this thread, I have a new laptop and wanted to see what games were coming out, and I've skimmed it since E3 after reading about all the hype PC games got at the show.

I don't know about you all, but 2004 is nearly upon us and I've already started to get PC game overload...

Here's what I got this week... past couple of days actually...

Chrome
Call of Duty
Need For Speed Underground
Black Mirror
Chaser
Savage
Halo
Max Payne 2
Homeworld 2

Granted - these are all 2003 titles... but I consider these to just be building momentum for what's to come. I haven't picked up Deus Ex yet, but with what I have on my plate already (plus a bit of a backlog as it is before I got all these), I think it can wait.

No real reason I guess to resurrect this thread other than because it's been almost 6 months and it's almost 2004 now and I'm kinda curious if anyone has any comments to add to the discussion - ignore the little off-topic-ness that transpired here and there.

I am currently playing Call of Duty & NFS: Underground.

Call of Duty is incredible as a single player, but the multiplayer is just phenomenal. For some reason, the players logging in to the servers are much more tactical and relies more on teamwork rather than going "Rambo" all over the place.


Have always really considered getting Halo but have some reservations about it such as:

1) is it any better than UT2003 or Quake 3
2) are the system requirements really that high?

If you could provide some comments about Halo PC, that would be great!!!

Thanks!!

Halo PC is the exact same game as it is on the Xbox - it runs fine on my PC:

Athlon 2000+
512MB Ram
GeForce 4 ti4400

You can have it set to 30 fps or you can set it to your monitor's refresh rate with vsync on or off - mixed results here - it is kinda unstable when there's alot going on. I didn't experiment too much with it though - I just set it at 30fps and left it at that. It's got a cinematic feel cuz the frame rate is so low. Control-wise, it's easier with the mouse and keyboard (IMO). I haven't played the multiplayer yet on the PC, but I have on the Xbox - to be honest, I think UT or Quake3 are just fine - might as well wait for the next online shooter to come along if you've been through Halo a few times on Xbox. Certainly the visuals are better, but the framerate being a bit of an issue - I can't really see this as a justified purchase. I picked it up pretty cheap, but I should've waited till I could get it for like under 10 bucks. I paid around 20.

I'm having much more fun with Chaser and Chrome though - Chaser is quite excellent and Chrome is alot like Halo meets Deus Ex.

Until consoles have keyboards and mice and make games like Fallout, Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale, Age Of Empires/Mythology, Warcraft, Temple Of Elemental Evil, Command & Conquer, etc. I'll continue to use my PC for RPGs/Strategy games and my consoles for Arcade/Adventure stuff.

I've been computer gaming since the days of Zork/Phantasie/Bard's Tale/Ultima et al, I hope it doesn't die anytime soon.