Chill out, dude. That's one of the most blatantly ridiculous bits of console bashing I've seen on this forum. All the hardware specs in the world don't change the fact that you can't play games like GTA and Final Fantasy on your Xbox. And it's all about the GAMES, baby. Now, if those games don't float your boat, that's fine...the PS2 is not for you. But there's no need to belittle those who bought a PS2 just because there console doesn't push as many polygons as yours.

Why does it bother people so much that others have different tastes then them?

Because people want to feel that their choice is the best choice.

People don't get it. Stop bitching about how great your system is and go play the games that are so great. Stop wasting time on here.

Some of the games are still too far away to know if they will be AAA titles. Sega GT and House of the Dead 3 I know are not. Sega GT is not as good as Gran Turismo 3 and House of the Dead 3 is a light gun game. Those have limited appeal and are never AAA quality games.

Just because Sega makes it doesn't mean its gold.

I think the best bet for Xbox to pull in new buyers is probably Panzer Dragoon Orta, Metal Gear Solid Substance(however its multiconsole so it may not make that much of a difference), and Splinter Cell.

I still think Holiday sales will be
1. PS2
2. Xbox
3. Gamecube

Not to mention the GBA which will probably outsell them all.

Casual gamers look at how many games a system has and buys the one with the most options. The graphic differences will not make that much of an impact. You can talk about the bells and whistles the Xbox has over the PS2, but it doesn't have the advantage in what matters, the games.

Another important thing is the fact Playstation has become the common word used for playing video games. When I was younger playing video games was called playing Nintendo, but Playstation has now become the term used by people when they are talking about video games. Even people that know nothing about them know what a Playstation is. Kind of like Walkman becoming the term for all portable radios. Its going to be tough for anyone to compete with a brand name like that and Sony knows how to market their products. They will probably have a big holiday again, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Game Cube to do better than expected. I think the Xbox will be fine either way. We are all just lucky the market can support three consoles so well.

Valve provided TFC, which is one of the few major free content downloads ever distributed by a game publisher, and they used that addition to drive sales for their "game of the year" re-release.

Counterstrike was developed independently on the half-life engine, and Valve bought the mod and hired the team when it became the most popular online shooter ever. However, consoles don't offer mod programmers the opportunity to make something like Counter-Strike.

Hopefully, we'll see stuff like Blizzard's "Map of the Week" from Starcraft, but I expect it will be a rarity.

Those are your AAA titles? House of the Dead is kind of cool, but no way it's AAA. Sega GT doesn't stand up next to Gran Turismo. Ghost Recon is a PC port, Metal Gear is a year-old PS2 game, Splinter Cell is a multiplatform title, and Shenmue is a Dreamcast port.

Further, PS2 is already online (well, sort of). Xbox doesn't go live until the middle of November, which gives Sony a jump on MS.

I don't even know what a kakuto chojin is, but I doubt something with a name like that will sell an Xbox to anyone who hasn't already got one.

Blinx and Tork look kind of interesting, and Toe Jam and Earl looks like a ton of fun, but very few platform fans are going to pick those over Mario. Mario is the gold standard, and he's in top form in Mario Sunshine.

Panzer Dragoon Orta looks phenomenal, but the draw of that series is limited to Sega fans from the Saturn days, and Xbox has already got all the Sega fans they can get.

edit:

Okay, I looked up Kakuto Chojin, and, even if that's better than Tekken, it won't compete well with Tekken in sales.

Xbox is already online - I've played both THPS3 and Halo online and had a blast... it's been online way longer than the PS2 - their Xbox Live feature doesn't debut for a month or so, but who cares? This is about the holiday season. Between now and then, the new titles coming for the Xbox may be enough to entice new buyers. Graphics are indeed a big deal to most gamers - casual or not. Most games receive a noticeable graphics boost when ported to the Xbox from the PS2 - at the very least, they get 5.1 surround sound which is a huge bonus (for me anyway).

Newer and future Xbox titles that will push sales this holiday - these are all out or scheduled to come out before Christmas...

*Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Sega GT 2002
Blade II
*Blinx the Time Sweeper
*Quantum Redshift
Barbarian
Commandos 2: Men of Courage
Kelly Slator's Pro Surfer
Terminator: Dawn of Fate
*Chase: Hollywood Stunt Driver
DeathRow
Robotech: Battlecry
Conflict: Desert Storm
*Duality
Galleon
BloodRayne
Fatal Frame
Hitman 2
*Mace Griffin Bounty Hunter
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2
NHL 2003
Phantom Crash
*House of the Dead 3
*Whacked!
FIFA 2003
*Shayde: Monsters vs Humans
*Unreal Championship
Dead or Alive Extreme Volleyball
Indiana Jones & the Emperor's Tomb
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Serious Sam
Back Pedal
Batman: Dark Tomorrow
*Brute Force
Defender
Gothic
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
Metal Gear Solid 2: Subtance
Reign of Fire
*Shenmue II
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003
Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4
Dr. Muto
Kakuto Chojin
*Malice: Kat's Tail
*MechAssault
Minority Report
*Panzer Dragoon Orta
Rocky
*Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell
*James Bond 007: NightFire
*Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
*Steel Battallion
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
Dave Mirra XXX
Operation Flashpoint
Tom Clancy's Raven Shield
Knight Rider
*Phantasy Star Online
Robot Wars 2
Strident
Ultimate Blade of Darkness
Warhammer
*Yager
*Battlefield: 1942........E3 Trailer
*B.C.
Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth
*Deus Ex 2
Echelon
The Matrix
*Project EGO
Soul Calibur 2
*Tekki
*Thief III
Wolverine's Revenge
*Wrath

There are a bunch more that I omitted and that doesn't even count the sports games which I know nothing about. NFL2k3 of course. This also doesn't include several titles that have no release dates yet, but that are likely to come out by this holiday.

Scandal:

Kakuto Chojin was one of the first titles announced for the Xbox - before it was even made. It boasted incredible graphics with realistic lighting. The videos I've seen look like crap though and I don't think that's going to be much of a system seller unless they improve greatly on the fighting aspect.

Here's some fighting titles that will help bring the Xbox up to speed with the PS2:

Tao Feng: Fist of the Lotus - this will kick Tekken's ass as well as everything else - you should check out a video.
Soul Calibur 2
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance - what I saw at E3 impressed the hell out of me and I had lost interest in the series after MK2
X-Men: Next Dimension
Kakuto Chojin - bleh

Unconfirmed, but likely to hit the Xbox

Dead or Alive 4
Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution

Blinx is going to be incredible... even I am going to pick it up and I'm not even a big platformer fan. Mario may be the gold standard for Nintendo people, but they can't play that forever... eventually they'll want another game to play.

Panzer Dragoon Orta is going to bring over everyone who played it that doesn't own an Xbox - I don't know how big that number is, but I do know that everyone who played the original Panzer games are salivating over the release of this one.

There are plenty of AAA titles coming to the Xbox - they already have lots of AAA titles. I think the system is doing quite well for being a first timer. I also think this holiday season will treat them quite well. I'm excited for way too many releases - I can't afford it in either time or money.

Just for you guys you need to know that
splinter cell is xbox exclusive for at least six months
Metal gear solid: substance will be first released for xbox
people say that xbox just get ports but most of the ports have 5.1 sound and better graphics
It's just that the developers make the games from the lowest common denominator so many ports dont take advantage of xbox hardware.

I agree with earlier comments that it is really going to matter who does the best job marketing. Game Cube looks to have the best set of games, followed by PS2 and then the Xbox. MS will need to spend a lot of marketing money to counter Nintendo and Sony's big franchises which essentially sell themselves. While hardcore gamers all know what Panzer Dragoon and TJ&E are I doubt that casual gamers do as well.

I look forward to picking up a PS2 or Xbox in addition to my Game Cube this Christmas.

My cat's name is Mittens.

why is it that everyone who owns a Gamecube considers themselves to be casual gamers and everyone else is a hardcore gamer? I don't know what the hell Animal Crossing is, but apparently everyone else does.

As for your comment about Gamecube looking to have the best set of games coming out - that's ludicris... Gamecube has mostly games that are coming out for all consoles and only a few noteworthy titles coming out before Christmas (Metroid, Resident Evil 0, Godzilla, Mario Party 4, and Animal Crossing)... the rest of the exclusive stuff looks like lame fluff to me - a bunch of Disney games, Mary kate and Ashley's makeover party or whatever, and some Star Wars games... the Star Wars games will probably do well and the Bounty Hunter one might even be cool. Overall though - their lineup is the weakest by far in my opinion. As for the games that span all consoles, I'd prefer getting them on the Xbox over the GCN if not for graphics enhancement then at least for the DD5.1 surround sound. PS2 has GTA Vice City which is enough... I'm more excited about that game than I am about any 5 future Xbox games and any 100 future Gamecube games.

That said - steering this back on topic... I think with 30 Million PS2s out there, most people will be looking for a second system that's not a PS2 this holiday. So I guess it'll come down to GCN or Xbox. My guess is that Xbox will come out on top and that's because this Christmas the consoles aren't 100 bucks difference in price and because Xbox has a wider selection of hot exclusive games. I mean - Metriod, Mario Party and Animal Crossing are all for the same type of people... Resident Evil 0 will pull in some different gamers and Godzilla might just totally suck (although the previews I saw looked kinda cool). Xbox's lineup has something for everybody with their exclusives - and unless I'm missing something, there are way more as well. That's not to mention the whole Xbox Live thing... that's probably going to huff a bunch of systems out the door. In my estimation it's no contest... Price, Games, Live, and you know Microsoft is going to pump up the advertising like crazy anyway. If Gamecube sells itself, why is it in 3rd place taking backseat to the new guy?

Oh yeah - welcome to the forum fellow zonie.

Im not in this this discussion, but that was just to funny, my Orange juice came out of my nose!

The PS2 is no where near market penetration. Most people buying game systems this holiday season will not have any of the next generation systems and that is why the PS2 will be such a huge seller. There will be those with a PS2 already getting a second system, but I think that group will be heavily outnumbered by those upgrading from the PSone or maybe not having any system at all.

I'm very much a hardcore gamer and I own a Gamecube.

I could make the exact same argument about the Xbox. Its all opinion. In my opinion the Gamecube exclusives for the rest of the year (and you missed several in your list) pretty much blow away anything the Xbox has coming out. Your comment that Animal Crossing and Metroid are for the same type of gamer leaves me speechless. One is a sims type game and one is a First Person Shooter.

There are good reasons to buy both the Xbox and Gamecube this Christmas, but I still see people flocking to buy PS2s well into next year.

I think between Starfox Adventures, Metroid, SMS, Mario Party 4 and Animal Crossing Nintendo fans will be very pleased. I'd agree that aside from RE0 and PSO the rest of the line-up is not too great, but this is 7 top notch games in 4 months. These are the killer aps which sell systems.

IMO the Xbox has some good looking games, just nothing that would make me HAVE to own one. If Project Ego and Panzer Dragoon Orta turn out to be as good as they look and Xbox Live delivers then I'll definitely be more interested. Until then I have tons of great stuff to keep me busy.

I am thinking about getting an Xbox or PS2.

PS2 = cheap good games, most popular so selection of games will be good for a few years, hardware kinda sucks (Sony electronics = **** IMO)

Xbox = more pricey games, has some of my favorite Sega games, best hardware spec, but not too many AAA titles. But it has Steel Battlion.

Leaning toward Xbox at the moment.

No, I don't want a Gamecube.

My cat's breath smells like cat food.



Seriously though, I think it makes perfect sense that XBOX or Gamecube comes up big this holiday season. Keep in my that this survey was of "avid gamers - 20 hours or more/week". I'd be willing to bet that most of them already have a PS2, probably within the first year it came out. These leaves one of the other two for their second system purchase. Will they catch up with Sony....of course not. Sony has taken the commanding lead and left the scraps to MS and Nintendo.




I broke my Wookie

I wouldn't believe any survey in which 80% of the respondents say they are planning to buy a console between now and Christmas.

Also, considering that the PS2 continues to have something like 5 times the weekly sales of either of the other two, I'd say it's pretty unlikely that the Christmas shopping season will change that.

I think the Mario Sunshine bundle on its own is enough to push Nintendo ahead of MS. $189 for the Cube, Mario and a memory card is a heckuva deal.

If they could get another controller in there it would be like the good old days, pre saturn/psx.

The winner of the Holiday Season is clear to me.

The Gameboy Advance.

I personally will be playing Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance, Metroid Advance, and Kirby Advance while you guys are still bickering over the PS2/X-Box/Gamecube.

Why?

Depending on what group you ask, high numbers like that could be very possible. Just like if you ask people at the Republican National convention if they're voting Republican, I'd imagine high numbers of them would say yes.

Okay, that's an extreme and sarcastic example.

But my point is, your issue should be less with the results of the survey and more if they represent a random sampling of holiday shoppers. I personally don't think this survey represents or tries to represent the "mainstream" shopper.

New games cost the same across all 3 consoles - $49.99. PS2 has more games with lower prices maybe because it's been out for a full year longer than Xbox and all those games are old. Steel Batallion looks badass - playing with that controller has got to be incredible. Especially on my 61" TV

How do you figure the PS2 is nowhere near market penetration? I wasn't saying that the PS2 is all done selling, but I think with so many out there alot of those gamers will be looking elsewhere. How many gamers do you suppose there are on the planet? How many of them don't already own a PS2?

Please tell me what I missed on the list... don't just say I missed something. What did I omit that will blow away everything the Xbox has coming out? Donald Duck's Fart Party? I missed a bunch of titles on my Xbox list too.

Well, most of the Nintendo games are niche games that all more or less appeal to the same people. I think that if Super Mario Sunshine didn't make someone buy a Gamecube, then Starfox Adventures won't. Metroid might pull a few in, but I think there's a signifigant amount of Metroid fans who are disappointed that it's a First Person SHooter... they'll probably buy it anyway though.

7 top notch games in 4 months if you count PSO which is a rehash isn't it? And how is it going to be online? I'm really asking because I don't know... Xbox has Sega GT 2002, Blinx the Time Sweeper, Quantum Redshift, Duality, House of the Dead 3, Unreal Championship, Dead or Alive Extreme Beach Volleyball, Brute Force, Metal Gear Solid 2: Subtance, Shenmue II, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell, Steel Battallion, Phantasy Star Actually Online, Yager, Battlefield: 1942, B.C., Deus Ex 2, and Project EGO... that's 19 top notch games in 4 months (and I consider far more to be top notch, but left them out).

Metal Gear fans will be forced to either wait or buy an Xbox this holiday, Sega GT isn't a system seller, but those still hanging on to their PS2 just for GT now have another option. Unreal Championship will be immensely huge - the PC games were huge sellers and it's the best FPS to come along to a console since Halo, Splinter Cell is amazing and it puts Metal Gear Solid 2 to shame. Steel Battallion - there's just nothing like it. Quantum Redshift might be a niche title, but it was created by most of the original team that made the first WipEout game. B.C. boasts graphics unparalleled on any console ever and some of the most innovative gameplay as well. There are hoards and hoards of people salivating over the release Project Ego - don't underestimate that title. Panzer Dragoon Orta isn't the household name that Mario is, but I've never heard one person say anything bad about the game - in fact, I've never heard anything but "it was the best game that ever came out for the Saturn". Blinx the Time Sweeper looks to be the most innovative platformer to come out in a long time... this might even convert a few Nintendo die-hards. Shenmue 2 is likely to be huge - the original was very popular. Brute Force wants to end up as this year's Halo and that may very well happen. Yager looks like it will be a sleeper hit AAA title. Duality also looks to out-Solid Metal Gear. One or two of those may be coming out for other systems - I didn't check - but I think they should pretty much be exclusive (or at least time-exclusive). Sure - it all comes down to personal taste, but it looks to me like the Xbox has the most diversity in their lineup and far more AAA titles. A triple A title doesn't mean that it's a sequel or based on a household name character. It just means it is a quality game worthy of a 9/10-10/10 in a review... the type of game that sells systems. Halo sold systems and nobody had heard of Master Chief before.

I'm not going to rehash all this with you. You have your opinion and I have mine. We will have to agree to disagree.

To touch on a few points. The PS2 is at 30 million world wide. I would expect that to reach 90-100 million by the end of the lifecycle. There are a hell of a lot more than 30 million gamers in the world. Look at the sales of other big systems like the NES, PSone, etc. The sold way more consoles than 30 million.

You did miss stuff. The biggest game you missed was Wario World which looks early on like it might be another solid title.

Again, I have my tastes and you have yours. I would gladly take even Star Fox over anything the Xbox has to offer for the holidays and I'm not even that big on Star Fox. However, I still feel that we will both be in the minority and the PS2 gamers will be the ones buying the most hardware and software. Except of course for the Game Boy that will likely sell out everywhere just like every most Christmas seasons.

I agree. The PS2 will continue to outsell the other consoles for the next few years. Sony expects to reach 48 million units shipped by the end of this year with the XBox expecting to hit under 7 million shipped worldwide.

there is no way that the XBox will outsell the PS2 unless the XBox drops its price and the PS2 does not.

projected worldwide numbers for the end of 2002
PS2 - 48.4 million
GCN - 15.1 million
Xbox - 6.9 million

gcribbs, where do those projected numbers come from? How about figures from just the U.S.A.? I'm curious.

Darkside...

Gameboy isn't a console, it's a handheld.

You don't have to get all huffy and "rehash" things with me... NES sold 62 million units and the PS1 sold over 40 million. I agree that the PS2 will continue to sell - I never said it wouldn't, but 90-100 million is rediculous... especially with such strong competition.

You say I missed stuff and then you only mention 2 games. That's 9 games... Xbox has twice that number of AAA titles. What other Nintendo stuff did I miss? Yes it all comes down to opinion... the part of my point you are missing is that the people who dig Nintendo and games like Mario Sunshine are also going to buy Wario and Starfox and Metroid etc... I don't see too many people clammoring to pick up a Gamecube because they figured Mario Sunshine wasn't cool enough, but Wario World is. I'm saying that Xbox's lineup is far more diverse which should bring in all sorts of gamers.

gcribbs...

What is your source for those predictions?