Rare was important back in the N64 days because the N64 had very little 3rd party support and because they made great games. Now Nintendo has decent 3rd party support and Rare hasn't released any games yet so they're much less of a factor. I don't think they're really worth discussing until they release some games this generation.

hmm two good games, maybe some one is forgetting who rare is.
From their website... I left out handheld and Arcade cause I was tired, I am listing all games not just the good ones but look at the list. This is one amazing list of games for a 3rd party developer and the only major 3rd party companies that come close to this type of quality of line up would be power houses like EA, Square, Konami, Capcom, and Namco.

64 bit
Banjo-Kazooie
Blast Corps
Banjo-Tooie
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Donkey Kong 64
Diddy Kong Racing
Goldeneye 007
Jet Force Gemini
KI Gold
Mickey's Speedway USA
Perfect Dark

16-bit
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country 2
Donkey Kong Country 3
Battletoads in Battlemaniacs
Battletoads Double Dragon
Championship Pro-Am
Ken Griffey Jr's Winning Run
Killer Instinct
Snake Rattle 'n' Roll


8-bit
ANTICIPATION
ARCH RIVALS
BATTLETOADS
BATTLETOADS DOUBLE DRAGON
BEETLEJUICE
CABAL
CALIFORNIA GAMES
CAPTAIN SKYHAWK
COBRA TRIANGLE
DIGGER T. ROCK
HIGH SPEED
HOLLYWOOD SQUARES
INDY HEAT
IRONSWORD
JEOPARDY!
JEOPARDY! JUNIOR
JEOPARDY! 25TH ANNIVERSARY
JOHN ELWAY'S QUARTERBACK
JORDAN VS. BIRD
MARBLE MADNESS
NARC
A NIGHTMARE ON ELM ST.
PIN BOT
PIRATES!
R.C. PRO-AM
R.C. PRO-AM II
SESAME STREET 123
SESAME STREET ABC
SESAME STREET ABC & 123
SILENT SERVICE
SILVERSWORD
SLALOM
SNAKE RATTLE 'N' ROLL
SOLAR JETMAN
SUPER GLOVE BALL
SUPER OFF ROAD
TABOO
TIME LORD
WHEEL OF FORTUNE
W.O.F. FAMILY
W.O.F. JUNIOR
WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT
WIZARDS & WARRIORS
WORLD GAMES
WWF WRESTLEMANIA
WWF WRESTLE- MANIA CHALLENGE

If Rare went 3rd party, that would really hurt Nintendo.

And there is a common thought that Nintendo might choose to go 3rd party after this generation of consoles.

-Jim

Well I certainly didn't know that they made THAT many games! :)

Don't forget that several of Rare's upcoming games involve Nintendo characters, and are therefore Gamecube exclusive, so even if Rare goes 3rd party Nintendo won't lose out on that much.

Yep. A couple guys on a message board at a DVD site.

Totally agree with you on the more than 2 good games thing. I don't know if it is the smartest thing for Rare to go 3rd party. Yes, it gets them out from under Nintendo's supposed strict wing, but is it going to generate that much more in game sales?

The best company you can compare Rare to would be Sega. Sega recently went 3rd party and, to be honest, some of their games have not sold very well because of their niche nature (Jet Set Radio Future and GunValkyrie for example). Some have sold well (Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Virtua Fighter 4), but one is a port with extras and the other is a much-loved fighting game that has come out on the largest install base console (PS2).

So, would Rare truly be able to sell more copies of games if they went multi-platform? They would lose Perfect Dark as a license to Nintendo, and all they have left to stand on is Conker, Jet Force Gemini and the Banjo line for games/characters already released that they own the trademarks on.

Rare would have to be pretty creative about creating new characters/games. Rare is also well-known for taking the id software mantra of "The game is done when it is done". This is very unlike Sega, who does get games out in a reasonable amount of time.

But the key is, will they sell more without the licenses they had with Nintendo? Think about that...

And I agree, there doesn't need to be multiple threads on Rare going 3rd party. If an announcement happens it will happen after StarFox is out, so let's cool down for at least over a month.

Well, Donkey Kong Country is still one of the best games ever. It blew my mind at the time.

Does Nintendo own that license? I don't see why they would.

I wasn't aware that Nintendo owned the license to Perfect Dark. If true, that would put an end to all the rumors about that game going to other platforms...even if Rare does.

I really don't think Rare going multi-platform would hurt Nintendo as badly as people think. The GBA and the GCN are both doing fine without them, and their last two games for the N64 (Mickey's Speedway and Conker) weren't exactly bestsellers. Right now, Capcom and Sega are doing more for Nintendo than Rare. The games that sell Nintendo systems are still the first party titles...Rare has always been gravy.

Very true. Even PD didn't sell that well. I don't think it broke a million. Not so good for such a great game.

Huh?

The story goes that Nintendo shares the rights to Perfect Dark and the characters with Rare and that all it takes is Nintendo to pay a sum to retain 100% ownership. It is also believed that Perfect Dark 0 is being developed by Rare and Nintendo's in-house developers together.

It is believed the only characters Rare still has full trademark rights on is Conker, Jet Force Gemini and the Banjo characters.

It is also believed the confusion around Perfect Dark is a prime reason of why Rare hasn't been picked up by a major publisher (such as the rumored Activision).

Perfect Dark is owned by Rare, not Nintendo.

And the thought of Nintendo going 3rd party isn't only on this message board. Its all over the place, including most gaming magazines. Most of them have mentioned it in their rumors section, and have spoken that it is a possibility.

It isn't just here. Hell, I am sure Nintendo's top people discuss it. They have a President who even basically brought it up in an interview!

Dont get so sensitive about Nintendo possibly being a 3rd party.. it makes you look ugly.

-Jim

Yes, he talked about it in an interview, and said they would continue to make hardware.

Ok, so that's the former president :p But I have never read an interview where Iwata said anything about not making hardware anymore. Please share if you have.

Agreed... merging.

Well, if Rare is going third party, and hasn't announced it yet, then somebody is saving the announcement for something.

Microsoft is losing ground every week, especially since they're competing with Sony very directly. If they had a guaranteed Rare deal, they would have announced it at their press release last week.

Sony's enormous lead means that they can save such an announcement until it has greater effect. They may wait until MS starts showing off a big title, and then reveal a secret project that's more exciting, so gamers will ignore the Microsoft announcement.

So the strategic benefit for Microsoft is announcing it now and using it to boost their own position, while the strategic benefit to Sony would be to save it until it is most detrimental to Microsoft.

Of course, the strategic benefit to Nintendo is to keep Rare fat, happy and exclusive, and I hope they get that through their skulls before it's too late.

Miyamoto said he has been working on PD. That's actually the only real confirmation the game is in development. Rare has not announced it. I kind of doubt Rare could take that game to another platform.

Rare also can't leave Nintendo as easily as people seem to think. Nintendo owns a big piece of Rare. This creates such a difficulty that there has been speculation that, instead of taking Rare third party, prominent Rare developers may create a new company to work on other platforms (think Free Radical).

How do you know who owns Perfect Dark? Even if Rare owns the characters, Nintendo's contribution, in both money and developer time to whatever is in development would mean that they own a big piece of that engine and that game.

As for Nintendo going third party, one associated press story was worded in a way that made it sound as though he suggested that Nintendo would go third party. Other stories made no reference to any such suggestion, though all recounted that Iwata forecast hard times for the game industry.

What Iwata actually said was that Nintendo's strategy was to keep the focus on games rather than on hardware, which is a good strategy when Microsoft has more powerful hardware.

The way the story worded it was that Iwata said Nintendo intended to focus on games instead of hardware in the future. Mostly, the speculation about Nintendo going third party are based on the fact that Sega went third party. But there are numerous differences between Nintendo's situation and Sega's, the most significant of which is the fact that Nintendo has made money every year, while Sega has been recording losses for a long time.

I don't understand why anyone would speculate that it is Nintendo who won't be in the next generation when Microsoft is in third place worldwide, and the Xbox is losing a great deal of money.

I don't understand why you would even mention xbox.

-rolleyes- This sounds familiar...-rolleyes-

As an illustration. The reasoning for Nintendo going out of the console business is that Nintendo is smaller than Microsoft or Sony.

Basically, Nintendo will go out because Nintendo is like Sega.

The fact of the matter is that Microsoft is not making money on video games. Nintendo is. Sega went out of the games business because they couldn't make money selling their consoles. So the company in a position most similar to Sega's is probably Microsoft, not Nintendo.

Im pretty sure neither Rare nor Nintendo own James Bond. ;)
Im equally certain that it will pale to the shooters that it will be competing with anyway. Doom ]|[, Unreal2003, Unreal Championship, and Brute Force will all be out and most online. I dont think thats gonna make PD0 a great choice for a multiplatform game.
Even if they could take it elsewhere why would they? The Cube will probally be starving for a shooter.

No I think all the people saying they would go third party is because their strength is in their games. Why absorb the cost of the hardware when you can make more money off the games alone?

Im sure they are. Off the GBA. ;)

Just stop it. Haven't we had enough of this debate? Microsoft makes plenty of money off games. Nintendo is a huge company. The reason people think Nintendo might pull a Sega isn't because they are smaller than Microsoft or Sony. I think you just don't understand what people are saying. Anyway - this thread is about the possibility of Rare going 3rd party and should have nothing to do with the whole Nintendo is going software only debate. Make a seperate thread or post in one of the dozens that already exist if you want to talk about that. Certainly Xbox doesn't need to be mentioned here except to say that "If Rare goes 3rd party, they might develop games for the Xbox... wouldn't that be cool/suck?"

If you think microsoft or Sony will quit making hardware and go 3rd party, then start another thread.

^just noticed my post might be misinterpreted to sound like I'm all aggro and being a jerk - but picture me saying it in a calm and jovial tone since I had no harsh thoughts in my head as I composed it. :)