Let me just step in here and say that the only people that need to zip it are people saying "zip it." This is a discussion board. People are allowed to voice their opinions, as long as they're not offensive. Let's try to stay respectful of others... thanks.

who said pc games are exculsive to pc most of the time?

Hell, this wasn't true back in the day either. both game titles were going back and forth.

Lucas arts titles, DOOM, wolfenstien, Half-life and so many more that are ported over to console. then on the flip side, there is not much that is Console exculsive now nor back then.

Tomb Raider, Tony hawk, Final Fantasy VII, soul raver, Resident evil and so many more that make it to the PC


so lets throw out the whole console to pc exculsives, because if it is successful it will be on both, but it will look better on PC. why?
because though they get the game, they get the standard version which is scaled down graphics to fit the needs of your console. PC's it all depends on your PC, if you have the minimum you get even more so then what Console gets, and hell the image quality in itself is unlimited in what it can do.

there was no back in the day or anything, it is simply about people who develope the game knowing how to develope the game to PC. no exculsive crap about it.

iirc, Tomb Raider was on the PC first. Doom, Wolfenstein, Half-Life, etc - took a year or more before they made it to consoles after their run on the PC. Ports usually suck anyway. I said usually - not always. Lately, the time between PC to console is getting shorter - Max Payne and Medal of Honor for example. Just wanted to point that out.

Then you must not be keeping up with the times, though many of them are in beta states and all, Next gen consoles have been "|-|@><3|)" already. Xbox seemed to be the one thats been easily emuleted because of it's nature of being just about close to a PC and having a hard drive. Remember Bleem? play console games on your PC before the courts shot it down when it was trying to be legit. but if you look, people are always working on ways to emulate the next gen console systems and getting some results.

As for games. the line between the systems are always going to be there, and it's up to developers to choose which ones they want to make the leap

I look at it this way. Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast will be out for the consoles. But you wont have the Mod community to back you up. You wont have any fan made skins(Man i love the vader skin) or anything of the such, no new maps to duel on, no updated downloads.

Plain and simple, No DOWNLOADING!! thus, you will be stuck with the game itself, not the bonus stuff the community has to offer for it to add to your enjoyment of the game. that to me is worth being a PC gamer in itself.

Well, looking the other way - the Xbox having the Hard Drive apparently has the capability to add a few minor features here and there to some ganes - like DOA3, you can add new outfits for the characters with the Xbox Magazine disc. I don't know to what extent these add-ons will go, but it's a big step above other consoles on the market. Not that new outfits will improve gameplay or anything...

Outside of that, I agree completely that PCs have a monsterous advantage over consoles in this respect. Half-Life for example - you buy the mod called Blue Shift and it also updates the graphics on the original Half-Life game which makes it even more cool and makes you want to play it again. Half-Life for the PS2 was really ugly and didn't come out until years later and the only thing it had going for it was the co-op version of the game which was kinda cool. The other update I can think of is for Metal Gear Solid - they are releasing the game again with new features and such... but the catch is you have to shell out another 50 bucks. If Metal Gear was on the PC, then these addons could be downloaded for free.

I think I did mention that earlier. and heres the kicker that will bash those who say PC gaming updating of drivers is annoying.. These Xbox add-on's really can be considered Patches. they add something new to the system. so guess what, if driver problems and Patches piss you off on PC, Xbox is doing the same thing on Xbox.

But yes, the add-on for Xbox is one thing I think is really cool. and yes, the MGS2: subsatance seems like rehashing the same thing only with a few more extra's. your right that if this was on PC, those extra's would be just add-ons or a modification you could download for free.

Hey wow, someone says I'm right! I wonder how cold it is in hell right now.

The difference there is that you will never have to download a patch for the Xbox in order to get a game to function properly. You can download extras (maps, skins, etc.) but the game will always load up and function just fine without downloading anything. Of course the main reason console games don't encounter the bugs that PC games do is because every console is the same so the programmers don't have to worry about device conflicts or old drivers.

The mod community is a big advantage for PCs, though. I know I enjoy playing Day of Defeat for Half-Life all the time.

I am really having a hard time seeing where all of you that state the driver and compatability problems. I have never had any problems with driver errors that a patch had to fix. I had issues at times where graphic wise wouldn't be at 100%, with a patch or something helping, but never have I had problems playing a game out of the box.

Like I said, if you haven't had problems, that's great but that doesn't mean that no one has problems. Just check any technical support forum for any PC game and you'll find many people posting with various problems. It's just a fact of life with PC games. If you stay on top of patches and driver updates, you can probably decrease your chances of having a problem but it still happens on occasion. I don't know what else to tell you. You won't be able to convince me that PC games never have technical issues because I've personally experienced them many times. That said, I still play PC games all the time. I just played Neverwinter Nights for four hours today.

Well, I haven't been following the emulation community at all lately, but I thought I would've heard something already if one of the next-gen consoles has already been emulated.

But as for the games, I doubt you'll ever see any 1st party developers for each system ever develop anything for the PC.

Yeah, cuz it's so unlikely that we'll ever see Microsoft games on a PC. Sega is now pimping themselves out to everyone. If Sony Interactive Studios America isn't making games for the PC, then what is Tanarus? Nintendo's first party developers don't make PC games, but I don't think I'm missing anything. Besides, that's what Emulation is for.

You do realize how insanely stupid that commet sounds

"Bust as for the games, I doubt you'll ever see any 1st party developers for each system ever develop anything for the pc"


You realize... thats like saying

"Micro soft creating OS for apple"

of course it will never happen, doesn't mean people make something like it happen.

Maybe I should've been a little clearer. I'm talking about games that they make for the consoles. Gran Turismo series will not see the light on the PC. Metroid will never see the light on PC. And so on.. Sega has always been developing for PC and their own platform.

Do people actually take emulation seriously? I know the SNES/Genesis and older platform emulators work really well, but from PS and up, those things get quite buggy, no? I don't know one person that actually lives and dies by emulation.

Maybe downloading device drivers regularly will help you be able to play games out of the box, but guess what...you're still downloading drivers. I had to download the latest Detonator drivers to play Return to Castle Wolfenstein. I didn't download the drivers until the game wouldn't run because I would rather spend my time playing games instead of updating my drivers. If it was a console game I wouldn't have to download drivers...I would put it in and start playing. Also, if you have to upgrade your video card to get decent framerates it just ends up eating into your game buying fund.

I would rather spend $600 buy 12 games for a console than upgrade my computer so it can play one game. You might say well it can play all of the latest games, but how am I going to afford games if I spent all of my money on upgrading?

Emulation is cool for older games, but I don't think the effort is worth it for the current generation.

Consoles are made specifically to play games and PCs are not (except for Alienware, Falcon Northwest, etc. $2000-$5000 systems for the extreme gamer). Developers are guaranteed that all console owners are gamers, and they have to realize that not all PC owners are gamers. That said developers go through a lot of trouble making sure their game is compatible with as much hardware out there as possible. I applaud their efforts, but I don't think they can check every PC configuration possible. Considering that everyone is not the same I would have to believe there are people other than myself that have had problems getting a game to run on their PC out of the box. This would be a freak occurence on a console, but a way of life on the PC.

Wow this post is long. I must be rambling. I hope it makes sense. Oh well, breaks over, back to Morrowind on my Xbox.

I almost never update my video drivers once I download a stable one. then it stays. I do download game patches however that is due to game developers putting out beta software to the pc crowd because they can get away with it.

The console game developers have no ability to release unstable games since they would have to recall the games themselves and then replace them. Instead they might lower the bar by taking out some features that are giving them problems in order to release a game on time.

I like PC games for the ability to grow the game with updates and addons which can not be done in the console world. I was worried that the XBox hard drive would allow console developers to patch games that were released early and unstable. so far they have not seemed to do this yet and they have not seemed to adopt the beta release issues of PC games thankfully

Yes - rambling...

More people have PCs than have any one console system I'd wager. PC game developers make good money too, otherwise there wouldn't be any PC games. As for the first half of your post - I update my video card's drivers whenever I have trouble with a new game (that's not very often) and sometimes I just update my video card's drivers periodically to improve the card's performance. I find it to be a positive feature rather than a burden. Video card drivers are small files anyway and don't take very long to download even on a modem connection. As for upgrading the video card, I think there's another thread talking about this topic and that discussion doesn't belong here - this thread is about the gameplay. As for computers built for "extreme gamer" and your comments about money, people don't buy computers just to play games... If PC gaming is too expensive for you, then that's too bad. PC games are typically cheaper than console games and I think it evens out (for me anyway) in terms of hardware vs software taking into account that you use the PC for other things. When you buy a console, all it does is play games. I buy a computer because I need one... for a few hundred bucks extra, I can get one that will be great for games as well. You don't need to buy a computer from AlienDell or Falcon-Northgateway to play games - and that's not all those computers do either. I use mine to create music, movies, art, websites, document, advertising, and a hundred other things besides gaming. Anyway - I shouldn't even address these comments since they are in the wrong thread and since I've already addressed them in the proper thread.

So what your saying is that the fact that you have to download anything in general or use another program to enjoy the game more takes away from the game? Xbox is doing the same thing right now with it's monthly updates in the Magazine disc. they offer updates. these updates and costume changes are infact "Updates" and could be considered Patches. it takes less then a minute to download and install a patch or a driver. you people make it seem like it's labor or something

So you spent 600, which is way to much (Upgrading a computer doesn't cost nearly even remotely close to 600, or else your just getting ripped off by someone. if you sell your old graphics card and put that money into a new one, your only really spending a little on updates)

the net is full of people who want a challange. and even though most are in beta states, most are fully working and can play the game decently.

I can't believe you mention Alienware.. you do realize that is a simple way best buy can mean over charge for hardware that cost so cheap. You can buy two massive systems part by part with the amount Alienware systems cost, and it will smoke the shyte out of the alienware machines. they are crap, they have nice cases, but hey, they are just expensive toys for the ignorant.

Your machine can handle games. if your just looking at your monitor your video card is handling enough to play any typical game out there. as for all this talk about how your system may very and not be compatiable with the game.. Oh please. You folks need to realize that games are made with the basics. everything they need pretty much comes with the game and aslong as your running windows, your systems config is perfect to run the game unless you made a dumb mistake and screwed something up by yourself on your system.

In closing Alienware is over priced crap, your system can handle just about any game. simple. Updates are normal. Don't you wish more consoles had System updates so you can play Castlevania SOTN on your PS2 without any problems? it might be a pain, but it's worth it, because sometimes, they need to correct themselves. that simple.

about alienware:

i spent about 700 dollars about 2 weeks ago that is pretty close in speed to a alienware system that would prob cost me about double

I have a 5 year old computer. a year and a half ago i had my brother put in new ATI Radeon video card($90), soundblaster audio card ($90) and more memory. It all came out to less than $250, or cheaper than the original cost of the X-Box and PS2. I'm still happy with the configuration. I can play any current game (Dungeon Siege, MOH, GTA3) at the 1024x752 setting and it looks and sounds incredible. much better than my PS2, X-Box and Gamecube.
It really ain't expensive to be a computer gamer. And after a few weeks, the prices of computer games always drops- rarely for consoles.
I was, until about 2 years ago, an exclusive console gamer. then when I got into fps and rpg's I made the switch. Now I hardly get enjoyment out of games like moh or halo on consoles because the control scheme. Plus, as was mentioned before, the mod community is amazing. Computer games have so, so much more replay value.

Is everyone that owns a PC a gamer? And don't say that because solitaire is on every PC that they're gamers.

Doesn't anyone ever have to upgrade their CPU? Or are all PC gamers playing on circa 1998 CPUs? And, can you upgrade your CPU on that 1998 machine without upgrading the motherboard or memory?

PC games force me to download, update, tweek and reconfigure. Console games don't. I build my PCs so I can have total control over price and performance. And, I can build a kick-ass system for around $800. I definitely just can't throw in a video card to get my 3 year old machine to play the latest games decently. I've already done that twice in the 3 years that I've owned my PC.

I enjoy sitting in my home theater and playing games sitting on my couch. I actually brought my PC into my home theater to see what it would be like. I played JK2 and Dungeon Siege. First, my video card does not take advantage of my HDTV. Second, my sound card doesn't have DD 5.1 which is okay because my receiver has Dolby Pro Logic 2. Now, I couldn't play sitting on my couch because I needed to use my keyboard and mouse. I had to sit on the floor with the mouse and keyboard on the coffee table. I prefer the couch.

I've paid around $30 for almost all of my console games. I try to buy them used as yes they hardly ever go on sale. But PC games get cheaper as they get older. Yeah you could buy Diablo I now for $10, but if you wanted to play it any time near when it came out you would be spending the same as you would for a console game. And, what's with the latest PC games being over $50? That is outrageous to me.

I'm a FPSer at heart an I was totally against them on consoles. Nothing can come close to the precision and accuracy of a mouse and keyboard. And, I still agree with that statement today, but is that what you need to be fun? I was totally against HALO because they stole my game from the PC and put it on a console. I was holding out for the PC version and couldn't wait any longer. Now they're going to release the PC version next year. Sure it'll be better than the console version, but so what. It's 2 years too late and other newer games are going to steal its limelight. By then I should be done with HALO and playing HALO2.

I'm not an RTS fan but I cannot even imagine anyone playing an RTS on a console. But, I've played HALO and Red Faction on my consoles and had fun. So, I don't think FPSs are PC only games anymore. Plus, my favorite games (Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon) are coming out for the Xbox and with Xbox Live and the voice communicator I hope it'll be fun. Also all of my friends just recently bought an Xbox because they're tired of sitting in front of their computers to play games. Also they have computers that are in need of upgrades. And, they're all at the stage that upgrading the video card would only help slightly. When they saw that the GeForce4 4200 was the same price as an Xbox they jumped all over the Xbox. And they like the games that are on and coming out for the Xbox.

If all I had to do was go buy a video card to play Morrowind I would have done it. But, I need a real upgrade (CPU, motherboard and RAM as well as a video card) so I just got the Xbox and am very happy with the game. I don't even care that I don't have the construction set, and I don't care that I can't download new mods. I think the 200+ hours of fun I get playing the game will be enough, plus I also want to play other games that will be coming out.

Is one game enough to get you to buy a console or PC? Yes! It depends on the game. I built my first computer to play Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight. I got a Playstation to play Resident Evil. I got an Xbox to play HALO and Morrowind. My girlfriend got an Xbox to play Morrowind. Is there going to be a game that will make me upgrade my computer? Not for the forseeable future. But, in all likelyhood there will eventually be a game that I will want to play only on the PC and it will make me upgrade my computer. Until then I'll be having fun playing games on my consoles.

PCs definitely have a huge advantage in the replay factor do to mods and add ons, but it's another feature that doesn't interest me much. Still it's a great thing for those that like to play the same game (or type of game) for long periods of time.

I get sick of stuff very quickly and have to constantly change things. This carries over into gaming as well. Generally once I beat a game I'm sick of it and don't want to play it anymore. A mod giving new characters, outfits etc. isn't enough to make me want to keep playing it. I generally just beat the game and move on to the next one.

Plus most mods are multiplayer oriented, and I'm not big on mulitplayer games. I prefer to play single player games and chill out by myself. I've never really viewed gaming as a social activity, as there's tons of things I'd rather do with my friends than sit around and play games.

But again, for people that like like multiplayer games and that don't get sick of playing the same game with some new features for long periods of time, PCs kick the crap out of consoles in this regard.

:sigh: Okay - if you knew much about mods or the mod community, which it doesn't seem like you do... you would know that mods are more than new characters and outfits. Mods reshape the entire game - some just add a few multiplayer features, sure - but others change the entire game... adding new levels, maps, missions, weapons, enemies, music, sound, textures, models, and themes. It's an entirely different game - literally for free. As someone with a short-attention span, you should be able to appreciate that.

didnt you beat ED 3x to see the last ending?

What's ED? Evil Dead?

edit: Nevermind - Eternal Darkness... duh...