Yeah but look at what MS has already tried (with buying WebTv) combined with the .net and Hailstorm stuff thats been in developement and you can see the they want the box as a .net hub for the living room. I feel MSs vision is that the Box is a crucial piece of a total direction theyre trying to go in with web services as a whole. But just a piece of it. They wont let it fail for big-picture reasons.

Now see what you did wedge-----------you sold your soul to Bill gates AND you got us all started on the console debates, and what's fact/fiction about them




By the way, does anyone know when Halo is coming to PC? And when it does, will PC players be able to play with X-box players online?

So, are you trying to argue that, contrary to popular belief, the N64 was the winner in the last console generation? I'd say that's going to be a tough sell. You'll notice that I did not say that the N64 WAS a flop. I was simply explaining why there is a perception that it was a flop.

At E3, the latest news was that Microsoft doesn't have any timetable for a PC release of Halo. More importantly, as of now, there's not a single person working on a PC port of Halo. If I had to speculate, I'd say that a PC port is unlikely this year. Microsoft knows that Halo is the big system seller driving the Xbox right now. I don't think they want to mess with that.

I don't see how you can say Metroid Prime isn't a Metroid game given the impressions out of E3. Most of thing stuff I've read indicates that MP does indeed have the feel of Super Metroid. Every movie I've seen indicates nothing less as well.

People are just going to have to have faith in Nintendo's ability to translate 2D games into the third dimension, as they did with Mario and Zelda with near-flawlessness. I say Nintendo and not Retro because with the level of involvement that EAD has in this game, you could probably argue that the gameplay is mainly coming from Nintendo's people.

I say the Xbox is the better system for the summer dought season. But when the crazy holiday season rolls on, Gamecube will obviously have the better lineup of AAA titles than the Xbox.

Not really... I think it was. Obviously not in terms of the money each system made, but the N64 had more good games than the PSX, in my opinion. The system also brought so many new things to the table, that I think it was one of the most revolutionary introductions to videogames since the beginning of home consoles. It was the system that gave new next generation systems (and all those to come in the future) their character...

That's quite a statement. Care to elaborate on what made the N64 so revolutionary? Just curious...

I am not saying that Nintendo somehow "beat" Sony. Sony's Playstation took gaming to the mass market in a way that it had never before been imagined. However, Nintendo definitely did not "lose" anything.

Sony's userbase was definitely much larger than Nintendo's. Sony definitely had a lot more games than Nintendo. However, Nintendo made money on N64 every single year it was out, so it was hardly a flop. What's more, Nintendo published a lot of multi-million sellers over the life of N64, which brings in a ton of money.

Sony's Playstation did not make money every year. It lost money at both the beginning and the end of its lifespan. Also, most of Sony's game profits came from licensing, which obviously brings in less money than self-published titles. So the gap between N64 and Playstation in regards to the companies' actual gains from the consoles may be closer than user base numbers appear.

I would not be surprised if Nintendo 64 and Game Boy, together, made more money than Playstation between 1996 and 2000. After all, Game Boy pulled down huge cash on the Pokemon franchise.

How much money each of the consoles make isn't terribly important to me; I don't hold their stock. What is important is that N64 managed to succeed without third party support, and Gamecube has fairly strong third party support.

Nintendo is still a titan in the game industry, probably as big a player as Sony. They have a loyal following because they build great games around recognizable characters. They have enough money in the bank to steal one of Sony's biggest franchises, Resident Evil.

A lot of people seem to think Nintendo will get squeezed out by Sony, and will go software-only, but Nintendo has found a place in the games market where it can be immensely successful. What they did with the Gamecube was position it as a viable purchase for gamers who already own a PS2, and they're backing that up with one of the strongest holiday lineups ever on any console.

If any of the consoles has an uncertain future, it's XBox. XBox originally positioned itself to compete head-on with PS2. I honestly believe Microsoft thought the XBox launch was going to be huge, that the Gamecube would be of no interest to anyone, and that nobody would want a PS2 when XBox was available.

Microsoft was wrong. You want to see a flop? Look at XBox. It sold a pitiful 200000 units in Japan. The only Japanese exclusive developer they have now is Tecmo. Microsoft's new focus on online promises to segment their market even further. Now the XBox will be of no interest to anyone who hasn't got broadband. The third parties will flee like rats from a sinking ship, and Microsoft's first party stuff can't support a console like Nintendo's can.

Fair enough. I guess I don't understand what your original post had to do with mine, then. I wasn't making the case that N64 was a flop (it wasn't because it sold quite well in the U.S.). My post was simply trying to explain why there is the perception among some people that N64 was a flop. Carry on...

Haven't we had this arguement already? I think you've already made it abundantly clear that you don't like Xbox. That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion but there's no need to keep repeating yourself.

Think everyone arguing about which system is best are a bunch of deluded fools. Xbox, PS2, and GC are all horrible. Everyone knows the greatest system is the Turbo Graphx 16......Bonk ruled!!

Sure... the N64 introduced elements to gaming that changed our overall perception of what gaming is and what it could be, forever. Standard controllers with analog control sticks (I still laugh at the Dual Shock), rumble features (Dual Shock ), four controller ports, and what I think is the hugest, most creative and inspiring game since the first side scrolling 2D platformers debuted, Super Mario 64. It set a brand new standard for game making, and while it is often imitated, it certainly has never been duplicated (except by Nintendo of course). The 64DD, additional slots in the actual controller, and Expansion Packs have to count for something... There are so many things that it brought to the table that I simply cannot remember everything.The graphics are still damn great too (for the most part), even after seeing all the next next gen consoles best efforts. I think some things change, like Nintendo not dominating the competition anymore. But some things will always remain the same, as seen by various competitors "takes" on Nintendo's original ideas. Who will be the first to come out with a first party wireless controller after the Wave Bird?

I guess I'll take the bait...

The statement that the X-box is of no interest to those without broadband is laughable. I bought it for games like Oddworld and Halo, not to mention the superior graphics and sound, the hard drive, etc. I would have bought it with or without the ethernet adapter, and I am sure that many people feel the same way.

I think there is a bigger reason why the X-box isn't selling well over there. Go over there and see how many American cars you see. The point being is that most of the Japanese won't buy many foreign products like Americans do, especially at the expense of a homegrown product like Sony or Nintendo when the quality is comparable. Here most people have no problem buying a subaru, honda, sony, etc., but over there hardly anyone buys American unless they have to. I think it is also a little early to tell what MS's first party support is going to be like since we have only had the console for about 8 months.

In my opinion, this was not a good thing. I didn't enjoy Mario 64 too much, and have yet to enjoy (except for Crash 1 and Conker) a 3D "platformer". Thank the good Lord for the Gameboy Advance!

Nintendo is only still around because of Pokemon and Game boy. Their Nintendo64 made basically nothing for them compared to Pokemon and Game Boy.

This was a discussion for N64, not Nintendo's other products. I believe I read that Pokemon accounted for some giant % of profits when it was big, and that Nintendo didnt even need N64, as it didnt really contribute anything at that time. Not saying it was a failure.

Personally, I was a Sega Saturn diehard! So all you PSX and N64 fanyboys can suck my NiGHTS and Burning Rangers discs!

-Jim

Now THAT was a flop... It was a fairly good system as well though, with some excellent games. It is disturbing that Dragon Force isn't mentioned in anyone's top 20 of all time game lists. Whatever happened to Working Designs? Didn't Sega buy them out? Dragon Force 3 needs to come out, NOW!!!

It seems to me that Microsoft is betting the Xbox farm on Xbox Live.

As for the graphics, Resident Evil is the best looking game I've ever seen on any platform, so the hardware advantages of the XBox are marginal at best. If, indeed, the XBox has the ability to produce significantly better graphics than the other consoles, no developer has yet bothered to take advantage of those abilities, and, it appears that most developers are progtamming for PS2, and maybe porting to XBox with marginal improvements to some of the textures.

As far as making Microsoft out as "the home team," this is a company that's about as cuddly as a tarantula. I don't think hostility towards America is causing the XBox to suffer, because it's suffering in Europe and Australia as well as Japan. Heck, it's suffering in America. I think an awful lot of people just flat out don't like Microsoft.

Companies like to have an image, regardless of whether they're Sony or Microsoft or McDonalds or UPS. Look at commercials. Many times they don't even explicitly try to sell you a product. They merely try to associate the product with a certain attitude or philosophy. This is especially true of magazine ads and billboards.

Think about Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft, and the immediate associations you make with each.

Sony's image revolves around sleekness and coolness. They started this with the Walkman, and have cultivated it in all of their product lines. They transferred this over to videogames, long a geek pastime, and legitimised gaming as a hobby with the PS1.

The Nintendo keyword is "fun." They sell products in bright colors, and make their products look like toys. They sold the N64 as "The Fun Machine," and they hammer it home in every speech and press conference at the game shows.

What do you think of when you think of Microsoft? Geek? Monopoly? Evil? This is a company that hasn't bothered to build an image, because they've been too busy bludgeoning everybody else. Now they're up against two competitors who are too big to push around, and nobody wants to buy their product because everybody hates Microsoft.

Look at the three consoles, superficially. The PS2 embodies the Sony philosophy. It's sleek. It's cool. It looks like the monolith from "2001."

Look at the Gamecube. It's small and cute. It looks fun. What ultimately pushed me over the edge to buying this, besides the price drop, was that whenever I saw one, I just wanted to own this. Gamecube sells itself the same way the Volkswagen New Beetle sells itself.

Look at the XBox. It looks like a VCR. and it has a big ugly lime-green "gem" on it. I know a few home theater enthusiasts like that it looks like an HT component, but there's nothing about the thing that inspires lust in a consumer. Looking at the thing inspires apathy. You don't hold the thing in your hand and say "this is cool." And that may seem superfluous, but it affects sales.

Most people will never hook component video cables up to their consoles. Many will never plug it into a 5.1 Home Theater. Most people can't really see the graphical benefits of one of the next gen consoles over the others. They probably couldn't tell a Dreamcast game from an XBox game. The immediate negative association most people have regarding Microsoft triggers when they go to choose between PS2 and Xbox. Every time Windows bluescreens, that hurts Xbox. Every nasty antitrust article hurts Xbox.

Sure I can... Splinter Cell for the Xbox... Extended Play shows both this week and Splinter Cell is just drop dead good!!! It has shadow effects as good as Doom3!!!!

Ummm.... Nintendo has Zelda, Mario, and Metroid. While I am not discounting their quality ( I will get Metroid and Mario), they are barely making it out this year!!! Also Zelda and Mario look to be more of the same.

PS2 has very little exclusive titles that interest me...

Xbox was the clear winner of E3 according to Extended Play... They have Blinx, Splinter Cell, Panzer Dragoon, Crimson Skies, and a bunch of others. Add to that, Xbox Live with Unreal Championship and BAM!!! Xbox is the clear winner.

Nintendo will hang in their with their Mario, Zelda, Metroid, but man, their releases are few and FAR between!!!

Ummm... Where are you getting your information? The Xbox is getting WAYYY more 3rd party support than the Gamecube.

Go to EBGames.com and look at the upcoming releases for all the systems.... The cube gets about 1 to 2 games per month... The Xbox gets 5 to 6...

Mario, Metroid, Star Fox, and Resident Evil 0 are the big Nintendo holiday titles. They've also got Wario World and Mario Party 4, which will likely be sizable sellers in their own right. Zelda is coming out early next year.

Personally, I'm excited about all of those titles except for Mario Party. But 5 games between August and November is quite a lot, especially since I'll also be messing with GTA: Vice City and maybe Kingdom Hearts on PS2.

How many rehashes or different versions of Mario does anyone really need?

The 149 I plunked down was for SW and SW only, other than that, Nintendo gets 0 of my money. It will go to the PS2 and XBox.

Bah. The fact that a game is the xth game in a series won't deter me from buying it. The Mario series is second to none in gaming history IMO. I mean, the 10th Final Fantasy game was the finest one IMO.

True, but everytime I turn around I hear about the next great Mario game. What's next, Mario hockey? Mario Football? Mario Basketball?

I may end up buying Metroid Prime, other than that, Nintendo will see 0 cash from me. While everyone is playing Mario or Wario, I'll be playing Ghost Recon, X-Men Wolverines Revenge, Dead To Rights, Dropship, Kingdom Hearts, Medal Of Honor, Reign Of Fire, Rygar, 2 Superman Titles, Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic, and many others.