Kellehair

Maybe it's just me, but that seems to say something about Nintendo's ability to make quality games.

wedge

Geez....what have I done? :-)

For me, the decision was pretty simple. I don't care about past successes and failures. I don't care which company is bigger or richer. The reason I sold the GC and bought the Xbox was simple. Wanna hear it?

For me it's all about the GAMES.
I looked at all the games that are currently out for each system. I looked at all the games that are coming out over the next year for each system. Xbox had lots of games I'm REALLY interested in, GC had exactly zero games that I want. I'd already played Super Monkey Ball and Rogue Leader to death, and that was it. Contrary to popular opinion, E3 was the turning point in my disinterest for Metroid and Zelda. I saw that neither looked like anything that would really draw me in. I have no doubt that they'll be good games that will sell a zillion copies to rabid Nintendo fans, but the fact remains that there are great games even for systems I own that I have no interest in playing. Why should I hold out for games that might be good but that I'm not interested in? My decision was easy, go where the games I want to play are at. That's Xbox. I should have bought it to begin with, but mistakes are made, I'm just lucky I got out when I did and got a decent amount of money for my stuff.

For the record, EB pays $40 trade in credit for a GBA, and $110 for a GC.

ScandalUMD

The Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, and Mario Party lines are completely different from the regular Super Mario line. Those games are essentially the Nintendo B List.

The Super Mario line is the flagship, and includes Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 2, Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, Super Mario 64, and Super Mario Sunshine, which is six titles in 20 years, plus a couple of game boy games. Every one of these games is a classic.

That's hardly an endless series of rehashes. Resident Evil is coming out with its 5th game since 1997 and Tomb Raider is coming out with it's 5th game since 1996. Talk about milking a franchise.

Of of your list, X-Men, Superman, Reign of Fire, and Rygar are all more or less B list titles, and Dropship has been in development forever, and still looks ugly. If you pass up Mario, Star Fox, or Metroid for those games, well, that's pretty dumb, but enjoy them I guess.

Josh H

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough in my original post. I had a line in that I deleted and forgot to retype it.

I meant the GCN and X-box have about the same number of quality, exclusive third party titles. Sheer number doesn't matter, as there are 10 crappy third party games for every good one, and 5 crappy ones for every mediocre one.

The PS2 has the most third party support. It has the most killer third party games, the most mediocre third party games, and the most crappy third party games.

The GCN and X-box have about the same number of killer third party games (very few on both), the X-box has a few more mediocre third party games and many more crappy third party games.

However, the X-box is still lacking a third party killer app along the lines of Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto, or Resident Evil.

Josh H

It's not exclusive though. It's coming to the GCN and maybe PS2 as well.

YujiNaka

This thread has gotten out of hand.

Let me make some points that should allow it to end.

-The originator of this thread didn't like those games for Gamecube, and liked the ones coming out for X-Box. So he switched systems.

-Scandal thinks this person is stupid because he doesn't like those games.

-I was a Sega-Saturn diehard.

-Someone said that New Beetle sells itself, when in fact it is selling less and less and is doing quite poorly for VW now. Something they are looking to drastically turn around.

-Someone actually said that Sony products are "sleek" and "cool" with a straight face.

-It was somehow forgotton that Gamecube isn't tearing up the charts in Japan. Selling a couple thousand more every week than Xbox (what is the ratio, 3000 xboxs and 5000 gamecubes out the door a weak? compared to 30,000 ps2's?)

-It was also forgotten that Xbox is selling better than Gamecube in America.

-Poland beat America in the World Cup.

-PS2 looks like "monolith" from 2001, so go buy it.

-The ugly green jewel on the top of XBox keeps people from buying it.



That about sums it up?

the aftermath

Way to keep on subject

Oh yeh, Xbox is the bizzzomb.

That sums it up!

Trigger

Now here's someone with their finger on the pulse of the gaming industry... right? riiiiiiiiight.

jeffdsmith

True, but the US advanced anyway. Then beat Mexico, and are in the final 8 teams of the world cup. Amazing!

ScandalUMD

Allrighty. First, I don't know anything about the sales of the New Beetle, and I don't really care. I look for different things in a car than in a game console, and I think the New Beetle looks like a giant M&M. I was merely comparing the "cute" appeal of the Gamecube to the "cute" appeal of the VW.

Second, I didn't say anybody was stupid.

Third, you had better believe image sells products. Why do you think companies spend so much money associating their products with a specific lifestyle, or with the fulfillment of needs consumers know the product cannot meet by the definition of the thing?

The image explanation is simply a counter argument to the notion that XBox's failure overseas is some sort of affront to America. It's great to rally around the flag, but I can't imagine anybody wanting to wave it for Microsoft.

The fact is, gaming is now a mainstream pastime, and the PS2 controls the mainstream. That's why it's got 30 million units sold. If people who read Gamespot and IGN everyday actually determined what succeeded and what failed, PS2 probably wouldn't have sold out its launch, and Dreamcast would still be alive and kicking.

Considering all the endless ranting on these forums about "Joe Six Pack" and his ignorance, I'm shocked that it's not considered conventional wisdom that many people do not base their purchases on informed decisions.

It's really simple. A lot of people like Sony. A lot of people like Nintendo. A lot of people hate Microsoft. This hurts Xbox.

As for the Gamecube, I believe their sell-through as of May was 4.8 million. Microsoft hopes to ship 3 million by the end of June. Sell-through numbers and shipped numbers are different things; there are probably at least half a million of each console sitting on shelves around the world. Once Mario comes out, I think Gamecube sales will really pick up. The people who got PS2 two years ago and might consider a second console yet will definitely be looking at Gamecube's low price and the uber-exclusives this holiday season.

Mainstream consumers may never see a comparison of tech specs, and even if they do, most consumers wouldn't understand what the numbers mean. People make purchases based on abstract reputations which companies build by having cool logos, cool looking products, and cool ads. People make purchases based on the appearance of products.

And Microsoft is uncool and the Xbox is ugly. That's going to hurt its sales a lot more than anti-American sentiment.

Josh H

That's definitely true. The average casual gamer is pretty ignorant as to tech specs. They don't care about hardware specs, features etc. Name/brand recognition is the first thing that sells them on a console.

So it's not that Microsoft is uncool or the X-box is ugly that lessens it's appeal to casual gamers who really know nothing about the gaming industry or tech specs. It's that MS is a newcomer in the gaming industry.

Nintendo is the biggest name in the industry to casual gamers. To many "Nintendo" is synonomous with "video games." Hell some called me this afternoon while I was playing Final Fantasy X on the PS2 and when they asked what I was doing, I said "Just playing Nintendo."

The Playstation name is beginning to gain this same kind of recognition after being the leading system the last two generations.

Of course none of this means the X-box won't be successful, it's just makes it more of an uphill battle to sell it to casual, joe six packs

When they head to Wal-mart to pick up a video game system what are they going to grab? A brand they recognize like Nintendo or Playstation with games they know like Mario, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy etc. or the Microsoft X-box with games like Halo.

It's a no-brainer for them -- literally and figuratively.

Again this isn't something MS can overcome, but it is a big obsacle and IMO makes more since than silly notions like MS being evil, the X-box being ugly, etc. I don't think these matter much to the joe six packs either. They just go by the name they know, and MS and X-box isn't yet associated with video games.

IIG

Hey I may disagree with you (more of an understatement than you'll ever know), but I certainly see where you are coming from. Alot of the so called big titles in the past and other upcoming ones in the future don't interest me at all. The Metal Gear series, Gran Turismo series, Blinx, Splinter Cell and Clancy series, Halo, Final Fantasy, Brute Force, Xbox Live (or anything else "online"), and various other things could interest me less. The only games that aren't on the GC that I drool over but will do without is the Grand Theft Auto series, Shenmue, and Shinobi. So I can understand someone not being interested in the least bit by Zelda (best series ever in my opinion), Mario, Metroid, and other Nintendo games of the like. Now for me, give me a Nintendo original to play until my arthritic hands can no longer grasp a controller.

joltaddict

When was the last time you were in a mall? XBox ads are plastered everywhere. EVERYWHERE. I have kids of all ages come to my house all the time (my sis runs a daycare for a womens shelter) and the first words out of their mouths is invariably "You have an XBox?" They may end up playing the Cube but they always ask about the Box 1st. Especially with the younger kids. Its like a generic brand name almost.

YujiNaka

Don't know why you think XBox isn't cool for joe-six pack. I know quite a few people in my fraternity and that I Am friends with that aren't big gamers but want the XBox because it has

a) the best graphics
b) its the newest thing on the block

None of them considered the Gamecube because "it was too kiddie." While I don't think so (I do want a Gamecube), you can't say Joe Six pack doesnt.

And thats your opinion that the Xbox is ugly. I think it is quite awesome looking, and think a purple little box with a handle is ugly. I don't need a handle on my videogame system, as I don't often pick it up to move aorund like a briefcase. I guess alot of videogamers do?!

There are 5 big games for Nintendo. And they will be released every couple months for the next year or two. One of those big games will be delayed for a long time, it always happens with them.

I think PS2 will begin to show its age quickly, and people will upgrade to an XBox. Thats what alot of people I know are doing, and thats what the people at EB and Gamestop told me people were doing.

Mind you, joe six pack doesnt own 2 videogame systems, he owns one that he plays. So he wont have a PS2 and a Gamecube sitting side by side. He will own a PS2 and then play it, or get rid of it for another system, most likely an Xbox.

You confuse Joe-six pack and yourself, me thinks.
-Jim

joltaddict

I dont know if that was directed at Scandal or Josh but neither of them are casual/uninformed gamers.

Kellehair

Joe Six-pack owns a PS2. There's no arguing that.

dek

Still a Mario game. Period.

Quote:

The Super Mario line is the flagship, and includes Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 2, Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, Super Mario 64, and Super Mario Sunshine, which is six titles in 20 years, plus a couple of game boy games. Every one of these games is a classic.

Great. I've played most of them. Mario was fun in the early 80's to me

Quote:

That's hardly an endless series of rehashes. Resident Evil is coming out with its 5th game since 1997 and Tomb Raider is coming out with it's 5th game since 1996. Talk about milking a franchise.

And its why I won't be buying either of those titles. I haven't liked either of those games since they were first released.

Quote:

Of of your list, X-Men, Superman, Reign of Fire, and Rygar are all more or less B list titles, and Dropship has been in development forever, and still looks ugly. If you pass up Mario, Star Fox, or Metroid for those games, well, that's pretty dumb, but enjoy them I guess.

Duh, I said I may buy Metroid, but I guarantee I will pass Mario up. If that makes me dumb, oh well. I'll have 50 more times more fun playing all of those B list titles than playing Mario or most of the Nintendo rehashes from the past. It was fun back in 86, I'd like to think I have advanced somewhat as a gamer.

dek

No, you basically call them dumb when they don't agree with your gaming preferences.

Stick with Nintendo, I have all 3 consoles plus my PC to keep me happy.

ScandalUMD

Mario Golf may be "still a Mario game" but it's a completely different thing. For starters, the golf and tennis games are developed externally, while the platformers, which are few and far between, come out of the Nintendo EAD team, which is widely recognized as the finest developer on the planet. But believe whatever you want.

Anyway, I don't know how you can be sure you will have 50 times more fun with those games, especially when you're skeptical about Nintendo's flagships, which, along with Blizzard's and id's, are essentially guaranteed to be great.

Superman doesn't exactly have a good gaming pedigree. The new games will probably be better, but that doesn't mean they'll be good. It's worth noting that the development team's history consists solely of a mediocre cart racing game for the Dreamcast based on "Wacky Races." If a title ever sounded cut-rate, it's "Superman: Shadow of Apokolips"

The Wolverine game out of Genepool studios, which has made exactly nothing. Spider-Man came from the experienced Treyarch team, and it was still mediocre, so Wolverine is hardly a guaranteed hit. If you love Wolverine, you can probably delude yourself into liking the game regardless of how it turns out, but it won't be 50 times more fun than Mario.

Dropship has gotten mediocre reviews. Reign of Fire is from the same folks, and is a movie license game from a developer with a history of mediocrity. Ghost Recon got bad reviews on PC.

Rygar looks very good, and I'll probably get it if it lives up to its promise, but you're putting it against some of the best games around. Medal of Honor is also good, but you should probably be done with it by the time Mario comes out.

lessee... Dead to Rights looks like a Max Payne rip-off... looks questionable, but might come out good. Probably won't come out great.

Kingdom Hearts looks good. I'm conflicted myself. I know it's good, and I like Square, but I'm not sure I want to play a game starring Goofy. Star Wars: Knights looks good if you like Star Wars.

All in all, a pretty unimpressive list of alternatives to a game everybody seems to be drooling over. I was a little skeptical about the graphics in Mario, but all the game site editors who have played it seemed to love it anyway, and they're pretty jaded about games. Also, I watched some of the videos and it looks better in action, because the water looks good, and the animation is excellent.

If you want to skip Mario, do what you like. You should have gone ahead and skipped the Gamecube as well though, if you don't like Mario and Zelda. I don't know why you bought it.

ScandalUMD

EVERYBODY owns a PS2.

agent2099

Someone mentioned that the Gamecube made "record profits." It was my understanding that they were making a few bucks per console at the $200 price point, and that they are currently loosing a few bucks per console at the $150 price point. How does this translate into record profits? And what meaningful records has it broke - it seems to be selling poorly.

Are you serious?

dek

We can sit here and argue until were blue in the face, its a Mario game period. If it was Lara Croft's Golf, I'd be saying its another Tomb Raider game.

Quote:

Anyway, I don't know how you can be sure you will have 50 times more fun with those games, especially when you're skeptical about Nintendo's flagships, which, along with Blizzard's and id's, are essentially guaranteed to be great.

Its simple, I know I won't like Mario. I found it fun back when it first came out, now I don't. Nothing is guaranteed, well maybe to you. It seems that whatever Nintendo does its going to be good for you and it should be for everyone else, sorry, doesn't work that way for me.

Quote:

Superman doesn't exactly have a good gaming pedigree. The new games will probably be better, but that doesn't mean they'll be good. It's worth noting that the development team's history consists solely of a mediocre cart racing game for the Dreamcast based on "Wacky Races." If a title ever sounded cut-rate, it's "Superman: Shadow of Apokolips"

I really don't care if it doesn't have a good gaming pedigree, the games interest me. I think one of the main things here is the games interest me, and a whole lot of other people. It is very obvious where your loyalties are. I really could give 2 $hits about Mario or Starfox, and to me, Nintendo doesn't have the best games and very rarely has ever had the best games. Its a ridiculous argument. I heard the same thing from Sega fans about how Sega is the best at this and that. Who cares. I want to play good games period, not be a fanboy to a certain system.

Quote:

but it won't be 50 times more fun than Mario.

Maybe to you. To me it will be. I'll have as much fun playing Mario as I would watching grass grow.

[/quote]
Dropship has gotten mediocre reviews. Reign of Fire is from the same folks, and is a movie license game from a developer with a history of mediocrity. Ghost Recon got bad reviews on PC.

Rygar looks very good, and I'll probably get it if it lives up to its promise, but you're putting it against some of the best games around. Medal of Honor is also good, but you should probably be done with it by the time Mario comes out.

lessee... Dead to Rights looks like a Max Payne rip-off... looks questionable, but might come out good. Probably won't come out great.

I was a little skeptical about the graphics in Mario, but all the game site editors who have played it seemed to love it anyway, and they're pretty jaded about games. Also, I watched some of the videos and it looks better in action, because the water looks good, and the animation is excellent.[/quote]

Great, I trust reviews to be worth nothing. The water looks great? Whoop de doo. Nintendo could drop a turd and I have a hard time believing you wouldn't be praising that too.

Quote:

Kingdom Hearts looks good. I'm conflicted myself. I know it's good, and I like Square, but I'm not sure I want to play a game starring Goofy.

Lemme get this straight, you don't want to play a game starring Goofy, but your jizzing here over Mario? Color me confused.

Quote:

Star Wars: Knights looks good if you like Star Wars.

I do, and so I should enjoy it, although I pretty much hated Obi Wan.

Quote:

All in all, a pretty unimpressive list of alternatives to a game everybody seems to be drooling over.

Not everyone.

Quote:

If you want to skip Mario, do what you like. You should have gone ahead and skipped the Gamecube as well though, if you don't like Mario and Zelda. I don't know why you bought it.

I will skip it, and I'm asking myself the same thing. Rogue Leader won't be holding up much longer, so the GC will go in the closet and collect dust until a game that interests me comes out.

dek

I don't have broadband, yet I have a X-Box. Hrmmmmmmmmmm.

Kellehair

How could someone not like Mario? The games are unquestionably fun.

That's just not true. Not only did it get great reviews but it also won IGNPC's Game of the Year Award as well as many other accolades.

dek

Easy, different tastes. What may be fun or good to others, may not be to someone else. Just like I only eat Pepperoni pizza. Combination may be good, or may be the best to you, but I don't like it.