Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
05-13-19, 08:16 PM
#176
DVD Talk God
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
Why would they have fired them? They did absolutely nothing wrong. They thought they had 13 more hours of story to tell when they decided to end the show 2 years ago, so that's what they did and HBO allowed them to do it. Weiss and Benioff shepherded one of the most popular and talked about shows in the network's history and they should have been fired because of some unhappy book fans who didn't get their desired ending? Fuck that. They are television writers, not novelists and they have a right to end the show they seem fit.
05-13-19, 08:21 PM
#178
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
Why would they have fired them? They did absolutely nothing wrong. They thought they had 13 more hours of story to tell when they decided to end the show 2 years ago, so that's what they did and HBO allowed them to it. Weiss and Benioff shepherded one of the most popular and talked about shows in the network's history and they should have been fired because of some unhappy book fans who didn't get their desired ending? Fuck that. They are television writers, not novelists and they have a right to end the show they seem fit.
people get fired all of the time when aren’t on the same page as their employers.
If HBO really wanted more of the series down the stretch - they should have gone in another direction with the “creative” staff of the show.
05-13-19, 08:36 PM
#179
DVD Talk God
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
Movie producer Megan Ellison, the founder of Annapura Pictures, put out a pretty nasty tweet to Weiss and Benioff.
But she later backtracked. I think she realized her comments were pretty unprofessional.
But she later backtracked. I think she realized her comments were pretty unprofessional.
05-13-19, 09:06 PM
#180
Inane Thread Master, 2018 TOTY
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Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
I think The Hound had the best story arc in the show. And Rory McCann played the shit out of him...
05-13-19, 09:23 PM
#181
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
I think the fact that folks are pissed at Dany's "turn" is quite hilarious. People, again, made the mistake of latching on to this "poor" little girl of a character. Then she turns around and shits in their cereal. Dany is aesthetically pleasing and she's gone through a lot, but she's been building to this since the beginning. The obvious foreshadowing should be obvious, but folks are still like nope, lalalalalala, can't hear you! 
05-13-19, 09:38 PM
#182
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
I think the fact that folks are pissed at Dany's "turn" is quite hilarious. People, again, made the mistake of latching on to this "poor" little girl of a character. Then she turns around and shits in their cereal. Dany is aesthetically pleasing and she's gone through a lot, but she's been building to this since the beginning. The obvious foreshadowing should be obvious, but folks are still like nope, lalalalalala, can't hear you!
"Dany’s descent into genocidal madness didn’t exactly come out of nowhere. Throughout her travels across Essos, her preferred solution to problems was to burn them and all the people associated with them. She’s impetuous, narcissistic and one of the last members of a bloodline with a history of doing things exactly like what she did to King’s Landing. But the manner in which it played out this season felt sloppy in the way these last few seasons have often been. It’s not just about characters like Euron and Bronn and Jaime surviving point-blank dragon-fire attacks, or Varys (RIP) being able to teleport across continents. It’s that Benioff and Weiss have been a lot less diligent at getting the characters — and the Mother of Dragons in particular — to the planned endpoint. They’ve told us where this is going, but they haven’t really shown the work necessary to bring her from “erratic but ultimately well-meaning” to “will roast thousands of innocent civilians alive just because she feels like it.” A version where she ignored the bells and flew Drogon straight through Cersei’s balcony would have felt of a piece with where the story had taken us to this point. What she did instead required at least another half of a regular-length GoT season to feel earned. But the showrunners needed their queen to get mad in a hurry, and so she did."
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-r...inwall-834528/
05-13-19, 09:42 PM
#183
DVD Talk Hero
05-13-19, 09:50 PM
#184
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
To me, Dany’s turn was about as earned as if Walter White had walked into a school and gunned down several dozen kids. With exploding bullets. I mean, the name of the show gave away he was a bad guy, who could complain if he did something bad?
05-13-19, 10:00 PM
#185
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
05-13-19, 10:21 PM
#186
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
I wasn't crazy about the heel turn, but seriously has someone put together a compilation of all the times a character has mentioned the possibility of Dany burning a city to the ground? It must have been two dozen times over the years. And that's not counting Bran's vision of the dragon over the city. Anyone who wasn't fairly sure some variation of this was coming was fooling themselves or just not paying attention. I understand the "Not Earned" argument, but it was hardly out of nowhere.
Last edited by Decker; 05-13-19 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Bran, not Brian. Stupid auto-correct.
05-13-19, 10:59 PM
#188
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
Watching this season has felt like reading a Wikipedia synopsis. I don't don't necessarily have an issue with the broad strokes of the narrative, but all the detail and nuance is gone. Key story points and character development are just yada yada'd away in an effort to cram as much plot as possible into these last few episodes. How many days do you think Lena Headey was even on set this season? 2? 3? By the end she was barely even a character anymore. She was more or less just an abstract presence. Thinking back to the days when she was matching wits with the Tyrells or grieving the loss of her children and I can't help but wonder what exactly went wrong. I could say the same about any number of characters, but she stuck out the most to me.
I know it was unrealistic to think this show was going to run for 10-12 years, but that's really what they needed to do the story justice. I still enjoy watching it, and taken out of context last night was at times pretty great, but wow how the mighty have fallen.
I know it was unrealistic to think this show was going to run for 10-12 years, but that's really what they needed to do the story justice. I still enjoy watching it, and taken out of context last night was at times pretty great, but wow how the mighty have fallen.
Ignoring the bells and roasting Cersei anyway...sure. But ignoring the bells and murdering a bunch of innocent families...no they hadn't earned that yet. I tend to agree with how Sepinwall put it.
"Dany’s descent into genocidal madness didn’t exactly come out of nowhere. Throughout her travels across Essos, her preferred solution to problems was to burn them and all the people associated with them. She’s impetuous, narcissistic and one of the last members of a bloodline with a history of doing things exactly like what she did to King’s Landing. But the manner in which it played out this season felt sloppy in the way these last few seasons have often been. It’s not just about characters like Euron and Bronn and Jaime surviving point-blank dragon-fire attacks, or Varys (RIP) being able to teleport across continents. It’s that Benioff and Weiss have been a lot less diligent at getting the characters — and the Mother of Dragons in particular — to the planned endpoint. They’ve told us where this is going, but they haven’t really shown the work necessary to bring her from “erratic but ultimately well-meaning” to “will roast thousands of innocent civilians alive just because she feels like it.” A version where she ignored the bells and flew Drogon straight through Cersei’s balcony would have felt of a piece with where the story had taken us to this point. What she did instead required at least another half of a regular-length GoT season to feel earned. But the showrunners needed their queen to get mad in a hurry, and so she did."
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-r...inwall-834528/
"Dany’s descent into genocidal madness didn’t exactly come out of nowhere. Throughout her travels across Essos, her preferred solution to problems was to burn them and all the people associated with them. She’s impetuous, narcissistic and one of the last members of a bloodline with a history of doing things exactly like what she did to King’s Landing. But the manner in which it played out this season felt sloppy in the way these last few seasons have often been. It’s not just about characters like Euron and Bronn and Jaime surviving point-blank dragon-fire attacks, or Varys (RIP) being able to teleport across continents. It’s that Benioff and Weiss have been a lot less diligent at getting the characters — and the Mother of Dragons in particular — to the planned endpoint. They’ve told us where this is going, but they haven’t really shown the work necessary to bring her from “erratic but ultimately well-meaning” to “will roast thousands of innocent civilians alive just because she feels like it.” A version where she ignored the bells and flew Drogon straight through Cersei’s balcony would have felt of a piece with where the story had taken us to this point. What she did instead required at least another half of a regular-length GoT season to feel earned. But the showrunners needed their queen to get mad in a hurry, and so she did."
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-r...inwall-834528/
05-13-19, 11:25 PM
#189
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
I found Varys' behavior unbelievable. He was an excellent spy who was previously a "master of whisperers" and yet he was very clumsily committing open treason. It reminded me of Petyr Baelish--once so clever, and then so stupid when he needed to be for the plot to be pushed forward.
05-13-19, 11:56 PM
#190
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
The poisoning attempt was more believable. Talking to Jon Snow and Tyrion openly against Dany seemed naive. There's whispering, and then there's outright saying treasonous things to her closest allies. Seemed dumb to me.
05-14-19, 12:11 AM
#191
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
All those people Danny burned, including the children, were the ones cheering when Ned lost his head.
Just saying.
Just saying.
05-14-19, 12:14 AM
#192
DVD Talk Limited Edition
05-14-19, 06:52 AM
#194
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
I think the problem here is that Benioff and Weiss (and, yes, probably Martin, assuming they're following his planned ending) are trying so hard to subvert expectations that they're actually ruining the story arcs for characters that have been built up for seven seasons. So far, I think only Jorah and The Hound have met satisfactory ends. D&D should really be ashamed of themselves when it comes to Jaime and Cersei...especially Cersei, who was given absolutely NOTHING to do in Season 7 short of standing around and appearing menacing.
As for Dany, I'm not surprised at that turn, but they should have done a better job of leading up to her "madness." Isn't she the one who said she didn't want to be queen of the ashes? That's exactly what she is now.
I still think Sansa gets the Iron Throne. Dany won't survive to rule it. Jon and Arya don't want it. Tyrion would never be accepted by the masses.
As for Dany, I'm not surprised at that turn, but they should have done a better job of leading up to her "madness." Isn't she the one who said she didn't want to be queen of the ashes? That's exactly what she is now.
I still think Sansa gets the Iron Throne. Dany won't survive to rule it. Jon and Arya don't want it. Tyrion would never be accepted by the masses.
05-14-19, 07:10 AM
#195
DVD Talk Hero - 2023 TOTY Award Winner
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
Just watched this last night. For starters, I wholly agree with this:
In my post-episode mental spitballing, my mind also went here:
100%. In the opening scene, you can see that he is telling someone the truth about Jon's lineage. That means he was not trading notes with Sansa since Varys would know that she already knows this. I get the impression that he was either sending out ravens all over the place so that the truth got out or, more likely, that he was having an extended conversation via note with one or two people. He was forced to burn his last note in the conversation just before his end. If this is the case, whomever he was talking to will almost certainly have some impact in the final episode. However, who could this be?
More than likely this is just another example of sloppy writing and the implication was that Varys was just indiscriminately sending notes all over the Seven Kingdoms and nothing will come of it. But it is certainly quite possible that the Master of Whispers still has a lot of impact on the plot, even from beyond his crispy grave.
Yup. Let's assume that Dany dies. Honestly, I think the show ends with the last of the Targaryen bloodline (at least how it exists in the show) being stamped from the earth. That means that someway, somehow, Jon dies also. Who has the best claim to the Iron Throne at this point. Since Gendry has been legitimized by royal decree, wouldn't it be him? The deaths of Dany and Jon (and perhaps Tyrion as well) will provide a lot of gravitas to the final episode but the show ending with Gendry and Arya on the throne with Sansa as warden of the north would still give fans their "happy"-ish ending.
These two plot points might actually be tied together. Perhaps Varys is trying to get Gendry down to King's Landing to make a claim to the throne on the assumption that Jon might not want to take it.
I suppose it is possible that we will see Dorne pop into the plot again (they did get mentioned an episode or two ago) but that seems unlikely with so little time left.
Will Bran have any more impact on the plot?
More than likely this is just another example of sloppy writing and the implication was that Varys was just indiscriminately sending notes all over the Seven Kingdoms and nothing will come of it. But it is certainly quite possible that the Master of Whispers still has a lot of impact on the plot, even from beyond his crispy grave.
These two plot points might actually be tied together. Perhaps Varys is trying to get Gendry down to King's Landing to make a claim to the throne on the assumption that Jon might not want to take it.
I suppose it is possible that we will see Dorne pop into the plot again (they did get mentioned an episode or two ago) but that seems unlikely with so little time left.
Will Bran have any more impact on the plot?
05-14-19, 07:11 AM
#196
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
05-14-19, 07:16 AM
#197
DVD Talk Hero - 2023 TOTY Award Winner
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
I just can't see there being in "may" about this. She just committed mass murder on a grand scale and the preview has her walking out to rows of soldiers (and where do these thousands of unsullied keep coming from by the way?) like she's General Hux or something. I just don't see how they can walk that back without really pissing off legions of fans. I will be quite surprised indeed if she survives the last episode. Frankly, she has been astoundingly unlikable since about the time she set foot in Westeros.
05-14-19, 07:18 AM
#198
DVD Talk Legend
05-14-19, 07:20 AM
#199
Re: Game of Thrones (S8E05) -- 78 minute episode -- “The Bells” -- 5/12/19
This whole series feels like a bunch of Shakespearean tragedies all rolled into one. I think the ending will be a lot more like Romeo and Juliet than Return of the King. Some people keep hoping for Return of the King.
05-14-19, 07:36 AM
#200
DVD Talk Legend