#76
PhantomStranger , 01-18-20 05:06 PM
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A sad day. I can't wait until they go back and re-dub all of Apu's appearances.
In unrelated news, Disney has decided to drop the "Fox" brand going forward.
In unrelated news, Disney has decided to drop the "Fox" brand going forward.
#77
Bluelitespecial , 01-18-20 08:56 PM
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Please just end the show now.
#78
james2025a , 01-19-20 05:34 AM
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Two things.
1. People still watch the Sinpsons?
2. The world needs to get some thicker skin and start concentrating on more serious issues.
1. People still watch the Sinpsons?
2. The world needs to get some thicker skin and start concentrating on more serious issues.
#79
TomOpus , 01-19-20 10:50 AM
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Not sure how to break it to you, but it does. You need to pay attention.Originally Posted by james2025a
2. The world needs to get some thicker skin and start concentrating on more serious issues.
#80
Mike86 , 01-19-20 12:23 PM
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Disappointing, but I think most people figured it would happen after the controversy was first stirred up. I don’t agree with it and still don’t think Apu was written to be offensive.
#81
dex14 , 01-19-20 12:53 PM
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What if they just hire an actual Indian-American actor to voice it in a non stereotypical way?Originally Posted by brayzie
So no more Indian-American representation on The Simpsons? Why can't they just let Hank Azaria do a non-stereotypical voice and not write the character as a stereotype? Maybe he sells the Kwik-E-Mart and gets a different job?
#82
Paff , 01-19-20 01:34 PM
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Good decision. If you went back in time to the Hollywood premiere of Breakfast at Tiffany's and said anything negative about Mickey Rooney's portrayal of the Japanese landlord, you'd be laughed at. But see if you can watch it today without wincing.
#83
Mike86 , 01-19-20 03:01 PM
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I can watch plenty of episodes of The Simpsons featuring Apu and not wince. Again, I don’t think the character was ever written to be offensive or a bad stereotype. I still say he’s one of the better fleshed out side characters and it’s a shame this had to happen.
#84
dex14 , 01-19-20 03:18 PM
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Just because the intent may have not been malicious, doesn't mean it isn't a bad stereotype.Originally Posted by Mike86
I can watch plenty of episodes of The Simpsons featuring Apu and not wince. Again, I don’t think the character was ever written to be offensive or a bad stereotype. I still say he’s one of the better fleshed out side characters and it’s a shame this had to happen.
#85
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I hope we don’t see any Hispanics eating Tacos or any Jewish people working at a bankOriginally Posted by dex14
Just because the intent may have not been malicious, doesn't mean it isn't a bad stereotype.
Snowflakes nowadays. Damn.
#86
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Actually, yeah, that's the correct solution.Originally Posted by dex14
What if they just hire an actual Indian-American actor to voice it in a non stereotypical way?
#87
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I can't imagine Mickey Rooney's act being funny, even back then. It was just annoying and painful to see and hear. And also offensive.Originally Posted by Mike86
I can watch plenty of episodes of The Simpsons featuring Apu and not wince. Again, I don’t think the character was ever written to be offensive or a bad stereotype. I still say he’s one of the better fleshed out side characters and it’s a shame this had to happen.
As a non-Indian, I don't get that from Apu. But I can imagine Indian viewers still being offended by it, considering the guy voicing him isn't even Indian.
I'm curious though, was The Simpsons getting some backlash from the Indian-American community, or did this only become an issue when that one guy made a documentary about Apu?
#88
PhantomStranger , 01-20-20 02:29 AM
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It was basically that one guy's documentary and not some broad uprising among Indians in America. Supposedly now the guy behind the documentary is upset they are getting rid of Apu.
#89
Abob Teff , 01-20-20 10:17 AM
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I think we often forget what acting actually is. I really do not understand the “if the character is portrayed by an actual ‘X’, then it is OK” rationale. Either the character is a stereotype (BREAKING NEWS: most characters in modern media are) or the character is not. It has little to do with the actor behind the character UNLESS the actor is deliberately doing it to be offensive.
Actors play across nationalities, sexual persuasions, and ages all the time. Voice acting provides a greater opportunity to do so.
Saying an ‘X’ character can only be portrayed by an ‘X’ actor is extremely small minded. Can an ‘X’ actor bring more insight to an ‘X’ character? Most definitely. But a good actor researches the role, brings knowledge and understanding to the role, and becomes the character.
Regardless, I am not necessarily defending Azaria or The Simpsons. There are times when the Apu character has been a negative stereotype more than a character. There have also been times when they have provided the character with more. The actor behind the voice wouldn’t make a difference on how the character is written.
And yes, Comic Book Guy is every bit the stereotype that Apu is. (At least he was when I quit watching decades ago.) Oh, I forgot, it is OK to make fun of fat white guys and nerds.
Actors play across nationalities, sexual persuasions, and ages all the time. Voice acting provides a greater opportunity to do so.
Saying an ‘X’ character can only be portrayed by an ‘X’ actor is extremely small minded. Can an ‘X’ actor bring more insight to an ‘X’ character? Most definitely. But a good actor researches the role, brings knowledge and understanding to the role, and becomes the character.
Regardless, I am not necessarily defending Azaria or The Simpsons. There are times when the Apu character has been a negative stereotype more than a character. There have also been times when they have provided the character with more. The actor behind the voice wouldn’t make a difference on how the character is written.
And yes, Comic Book Guy is every bit the stereotype that Apu is. (At least he was when I quit watching decades ago.) Oh, I forgot, it is OK to make fun of fat white guys and nerds.
#90
Mike86 , 01-20-20 10:35 AM
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This is what gets me about the entire thing. It was a total non-issue for the majority of people forever until this documentary. People like to claim how irrelevant the show is, but the second there’s a controversy everyone is on their high horse and ready to shame. Fuck people like that who just get outraged when a good majority of them probably don’t even know why other than what’s been shown to them from watching said documentary. Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
It was basically that one guy's documentary and not some broad uprising among Indians in America. Supposedly now the guy behind the documentary is upset they are getting rid of Apu.
#91
PhantomStranger , 01-20-20 02:43 PM
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It's always a very small, but highly vocal, group of people complaining about these issues. Hollywood built up Twitter as a de facto marketing platform for entertainment because "free" viral advertising was cheaper than old-school carpet bombing of television and print ads. The problem is corporations with brands worth millions haven't yet learned how to deal with the downsides of freewheeling online discussion.
#92
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Interesting point. But then again, optics play a big part in how offense is perceived. There's been times when a film or television character comes across as a negative stereotype, but if the actor is of the same ethnicity as the character they get a pass. Unless the producers and writers are white. Then it MIGHT be an issue because it may be interpreted as the whites exploiting a Person of Color and indulging in stereotypes. But if that negative stereotype is popular, they get the pass. Originally Posted by Abob Teff
I think we often forget what acting actually is. I really do not understand the “if the character is portrayed by an actual ‘X’, then it is OK” rationale. Either the character is a stereotype (BREAKING NEWS: most characters in modern media are) or the character is not. It has little to do with the actor behind the character UNLESS the actor is deliberately doing it to be offensive.
Example, 4 Latino stereotypes in TV and film that need to go from the LA Times.
All the examples (1) Sexpot, 2) gang banger cholo, 3) maid 4) spanish speaker only) seem to be produced and/or directed by white people, and they even have a shot of West Side Story with white actors wearing darkened face paint.
Yet no mention of the numerous narco telenovelas on Univision and Telemundo which are produced and acted by Latinos.
Quote:
And yes, Comic Book Guy is every bit the stereotype that Apu is. (At least he was when I quit watching decades ago.) Oh, I forgot, it is OK to make fun of fat white guys and nerds.
Yeah, but comic nerds aren't a race so it's okay to make fun of a group of people who may be socially introverted, obese, and/or potential incel/alt-right white supremacist neck beards.And yes, Comic Book Guy is every bit the stereotype that Apu is. (At least he was when I quit watching decades ago.) Oh, I forgot, it is OK to make fun of fat white guys and nerds.
But I think stereotyping fat people is taboo these days, isn't it? I haven't noticed it in any shows I've watched.
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That's what I noticed too. I remember Kwik-E-Mart racist jokes in the early 90s, but since The Simpsons isn't really the pop-culture juggernaut it once, and as the Indian-American community has grown very large in the US, with more Indian representation on television, I didn't think that the Apu-stereotype was still being used like it once was. Do kids and teenagers still watch The Simpsons like that? I thought they moved onto South Park, and now to stuff like Rick and Morty.Originally Posted by Mike86
This is what gets me about the entire thing. It was a total non-issue for the majority of people forever until this documentary. People like to claim how irrelevant the show is, but the second there’s a controversy everyone is on their high horse and ready to shame. Fuck people like that who just get outraged when a good majority of them probably don’t even know why other than what’s been shown to them from watching said documentary.
I though it was interesting that the one article that was criticizing the Apu character defended the use of Italian stereotypes like Fat Tony the mafia guy because supposedly there's varied Italian representation out there, yet most of the Italian-centric entertainment that comes to mind usually involves the mafia: The Godfather, Goodfellas, The Sopranos, Mob Wives. I guess there's Jersey Shore but they referred to themselves as "guidos" so...
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Because everyone has access to social media and "free" advertising, everyone's chasing clout now. Just like that article I posted about the Latina writer saying Rihanna culturally appropriated chola eyebrows. Everyone wants to make a name for themselves, somehow, some way.Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
It's always a very small, but highly vocal, group of people complaining about these issues. Hollywood built up Twitter as a de facto marketing platform for entertainment because "free" viral advertising was cheaper than old-school carpet bombing of television and print ads. The problem is corporations with brands worth millions haven't yet learned how to deal with the downsides of freewheeling online discussion.