majorjoe23

Just watched the episode, then came into this thread

Giantrobo

Giantrobo

Giantrobo

Giantrobo

Lifepawn

The Valeyard

Michael Corvin

Holy shit what a trainwreck....the thread, not the episode. It feels like any given comment section on Yahoo! complaining about liberals and some fictional agenda. *yawn.

We are a diverse nation, it's only natural that our entertainment is represented as such.

I love how a mere reference to two dads can set someone off. They didn't hold hands, kiss, make eyes at each other...nothing. Just a reference to being gay and people lose their shit. It's kind of sad really.

Is it really though? So they wanted a gay character, so what? What makes that an agenda? The only agenda I can see is appealing to all demographics not just white straight males. I guess it comes across as some 'liberal agenda' because...

It's awkward because the writing for Alex and her gal pal has been utter crap. I'm all for the strong woman becoming gay (if this was 10 years ago the stereotypical choice would have been Wynn) but it has just been horribly written.

It is kinda funny. Earlier in the year I was thinking it was a bit much for a "family" show, but you know what I found out? Kids don't care. It's diverse, just like our nation. It's just been clumsily handled, ahem, just like our current nation.

The songs were just very poorly done. If all these actors truly have a history in music/theater, I wouldn't put this episode anywhere near my highlight reel. The producers really did a disservice to their talents. The songs felt too produced/polished to where you could barely tell if it was their actual voices. It was very odd. It would have helped if they actually belted it out on set (or did a live show), but the lip syncing just made things exponentially worse.

Overall, I did find it entertaining despite the musical numbers (which I was game for). Benoist continues to be cute as a button when around Gustin, more so than on her own show. She has more chemistry with him in one scene than all season with Mon-El.

Seeing Vibe, Kid Flash & Martian Manhunter working together was awesome.

JuryDuty

Good Lord, I haven't even watched this episode yet and now I'm not sure if I want to!

But honestly, we'll likely drop this show and save it for later if it gets too political, overtly sexual or anything else. I hope they just let it stay true to the way they first wrote it rather than try to start making The Flash something it's not.

As an adult, I've always felt those heavier topics are better for The Arrow, which is a show we reserve for parents only because it's darker, more brutal, and does deal regularly with political, sexual and heavier topics.

hdnmickey

I never cease to be amazed at that there is an issue with having young kids watch a movie/show with a something that even mentions gays or TG's, but all the violence and evil portrayed in the same movie/show is not an issue.

We watched the first new episode of The Amazing Race last week with my daughter, not worried at all about the multiple mentions of one of the racers being gay. But she doesn't watch these CW DC shows because we're not good with the violence and evil portrayed on a regular basis.

JuryDuty

Well, that's why we've appreciated the Flash. It's not NEAR as violent as The Arrow. We aren't ready for them to see it yet, but soon.

We watched the Amazing Race also and had no issue with that. That's why I say, for us, it's more about the bad writing and portrayal of these issues than the actual issues themselves.

For me personally, children aside, it's more about whether the writers are keeping you in the story. If an element is introduced, whether it's violence, language or sexuality, that jolts you out of the storytelling and reminds you that you're sitting and watching a TV show, the writers have failed. The plots and characters should be so tightly integrated that you go right along with it.

Anyone whose watched Get Shorty or Thanks for Sharing or John Wick, has seen movies where strong language, sexuality and violence work with the plot vs jolting you out of it. You never want to be more focused on your popcorn than the show!

Michael Corvin

Exactly. It's clumsy at best.

I too skip Arrow for the kiddos. Too violent and adult themed. Flash & Supergirl are pretty tame in the violence department. Legends falls somewhere between but we only check that out for the crossovers. With that being said, my girls and I watched Face Off for a few seasons so they know how all this stuff works. Explaining a squib and makeup effects is easier than getting into the birds and bees earlier than necessary. And to be fair, they don't need to see any bedroom action, straight or gay. I'M not ready for that.

hdnmickey

Guess we view things differently. While not at an Arrow level, the level of violence on these other shows is still too high.

Giantrobo

Can y'all please explain the "horribly written" part? Looks pretty accurate to me. Two women, one gay, one "trying to figure shit out"...they dig each other but both have personal issues and cause bumps in their journey. Again...THAT'S LIFE. What makes any of that "poorly written"?

Now if you say you have issues with YOUR PERCEPTION of their "chemistry", like many did with Barry and Iris in the beginning...then I can kinda see where YOU might have personal issues with the Alex and her girl.

Draven

Alex's story has been fine. I too don't understand that "horribly written" criticism. The only thing I can think is that because we don't have to have "coming out" stories for heterosexual characters, people aren't used to them if it's not a teenager telling their parents.

Sometimes people come to this realization late in life. A female friend of mine who is both hilarious and very attractive had a string of unsuccessful relationships with men until she finally admitted that she was gay and went on to have a wonderful relationship with a woman who helped her realize that about herself. And she was in her 30s at the time. Alex's story was actually very similar to what happened to her (minus the aliens) so it's never felt bad to me as I've seen the exact same thing play out firsthand.

As for the musical critiques - Garber and Martin are musical theater legends, Jordan is a wildly popular up-and-comer on the scene, Gustin did Broadway tours and Benoist got on Glee after her vocal auditions. They are all VERY accomplished and I thought the songs all sounded great.

hdnmickey

That's because it's not any worse than most of the other couples scenes on these shows. It's different in one way and it's been very surprising (at least to me) to see that create what it has within comic book show fans.

dstrauss

Flash has never done relationships well, hetero or not. But the lesbian couple's writing has been particularly bad, so many times they acted like 16 year olds and not mature adults.

I generally skip past any scenes where anyone stops to talk about their feelings, it's not the show's strong point.

Michael Corvin

That's a good way to put it. Separately they're well written adult characters. Once Alex & Maggie are together they're like 16 year olds in a "very special" after school special.

hdnmickey

Even the scenes with Joe and his girlfriend have come off like two 16 yo's. At this point I have no doubt it's intentional or that is all they are capable of doing as writers.

OldBoy

Are u fin kidding me?? One of my favorite songs and I missed it with those two. Aw man...

The Cow

I yi yi...

If only there were some way for You to see something you missed on the television tube.

robin2099

Because it has been. First we will start with Maggie. Maggie serves no purpose to this series at all. None whatsoever and is even more useless than James and Winn. She is nothing more than a walking, talking plot device that is there to make Alex a lesbian. She almost never has any bearing on the main plot and her presence just derails the episode so we can get whatever overdramatic plot Alex has this week.

Alex is also totally worthless. In season 1, she was headstrong, capable, and had loyalty to Kara in wanting to protect her sister. This season she randomly became a lesbian after crushing on Max Lord in season 1, and Superman in season 2. So far, she has done nothing but be a lesbian, act stupid and have no interaction with Kara at all. Remember when Jeremiah was bad? In season one you would have her and Kara have a moment to act. This season however, it was more important for Mon El and Maggie to comfort them for some reason. If you exercise Alex and Maggie from every episode they have been in it wouldn't effect that plot at all unless it's Alex in the DEO.

Alex has also given us some of the most eye rolling moments in the series so far that come across like bad after school special scenes. Yes Alex, I'm sure coming out would be hard for your sister to understand. After all, she is only an alien from another planet who has been pretending to be something she's not for thirteen years and is also one of only a handful of a near extinct race. But yeah, coming out is hard.

And don't get me started on their relationship. The actresses have no charisma at all, and the plots are incredibly stupid. Maggie hates Valentines so Alex is sad. Alex wants Maggie, but Maggie doesn't want Alex so Alex is sad. Oh, Alex meets Maggie's ex so what does she decide to do? Why invite the ex to have dinner with them at a romantic restraint like a total moron. These plots look more like bad storylines from Sex and the City than a superhero show.

What makes it really bad is they put such an emphasis on it. The writers of The Flash, Arrow and Legends know we watch the show to see The Flash, Green Arrow and the Legends. We don't need B plots about Kaitlin dating again, or Cisco having a crush and when they do stuff like that, they are smart enough to make them small parts of an episode. Supergirl however seems to think Alex and Maggie is this amazing plot thread and sees fit to feature them in every single episode like we should care about a relationship that makes Oliver and Felicity from season three and four look masterful by comparison.